Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[Gideon300]

It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).

The role of pastor is greatly exaggerated in the present day church. The functions of the church as a body were virtually removed by Catholicism and have not really been restored. It's the primary reason for the decline of Christianity in the Western world. The burden has been placed on a few, usually paid professionals, while the congregation warms the pews and fills the coffers. It's little like the true church of God.

 

[Magenta]

So Pauls injuction to appoint Elders in EVERY church is irrelevant?
I always thought that EVERY meant EVERY, not just some or none.

And the subject of the thread is women pastors. Not women prophesying or exercising the gifts of the Spirit.

And you seem to be saying because a woman leads a church today, it authenticates women pastors. So let me tell you something and I won't charge you for it. No where in scripture does it authenticate pastors of any kind as leaders of the church. Its leadership was in the hands of the Apostles, Prophets and Elders.

To whom would women prophesy and exercise the gits of the Spirit if not the church, which is the Body of Christ?

An open question to all

 

[Dino246]

What is different?

What's different is both the conclusion and the path by which we get there. You believe that the passage teaches that women may not lead in the Church because Adam was created before Eve. I believe that the passage is addressing a particular situation that is strongly implied but not spelled out in the letter, and that Paul's reference to the creation order was not the reason for a prohibition on women teaching, but rather a refutation of erroneous teaching, the holding of which would preclude a woman (or, frankly, anyone) from teaching prior to receiving proper Christian instruction.

 

[CS1]

The Bible is very clear about this in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 that women ought to keep silence in the church.

keeping silent is that when she is prophesying as the Letter speaks about in Chapters 10 and 11? Or are women not to say anything in the context of the Holy Spirit which says they can and do prophesy? Or is that all things are to be done in good order and discipline?

 

[CS1]

You said it, episkope and poimèn have nearly the same dutys and responsibilitys
What I wrote about this, you will find in post 1.953, there I have nothing to add.
You did not answer my question. Can a woman be husband of a man?

can a woman be the husband of a man? what a foolish question can a man be a husband without a wife?

Does the Holy Spirit Use women today or not? You look at the scriptures to see where women are to be silent and not hold the office of PASTOR BUT WILL NOT ACCEPT where women in the same Letter in 1cor chapter 10-11-14 are told how to Prophesy in the church setting. Why?

Why is it you only see they are not able to do, yet can't see where they are able to do? Why is it your outlook is controlling and not allowing women to fulfill the gifting of God? I agree women should not be Pastors, Nor should they be senators, congressmen, presidents. But in the Church setting, they are to be disciples, equipped and used to bring the gospel message to the world.

 

[CS1]

Yes, ore I can leave it with the hint that the Holy Spirit told this Paul to write down, without questioning it.
Ore would you say that the Holy Spirit inspired it not?

now you are getting rude

 

[pablocito]

It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).

My short stint with the word leads me to believe that the topic of women teaching in the church is moot. In the 1st Century during the church age, it was required. Today in the last days, the external local church is not in existence, and thus there is neither male or female or Greek or Jew etc. etc.etc. We are all one in Christ.
Really today we are being tested and unfortunately many so-called Christians are stuck in the dark ages, believing in lies promulgated by the Devil, which will cause a great falling away.

 

[Aidan1]

now you are getting rude

What please is rude? I know enough people who create their own teaching and neglecting the Holy Spirit has inspired the Word of God.
So what please is rude? I even not getting an answer to this question. So what should i think?

 

[Aidan1]

can a woman be the husband of a man? what a foolish question can a man be a husband without a wife?

Does the Holy Spirit Use women today or not? You look at the scriptures to see where women are to be silent and not hold the office of PASTOR BUT WILL NOT ACCEPT where women in the same Letter in 1cor chapter 10-11-14 are told how to Prophesy in the church setting. Why?

Why is it you only see they are not able to do, yet can't see where they are able to do? Why is it your outlook is controlling and not allowing women to fulfill the gifting of God? I agree women should not be Pastors, Nor should they be senators, congressmen, presidents. But in the Church setting, they are to be disciples, equipped and used to bring the gospel message to the world.

Yes, you are right , this is realy a foolish question! Of course she can not.
So 1.Tim. 3 is for man not for an woman.
The theme of this thread is not can a woman be in the ministrie for God.
The theme is: are Woman Pastors biblical.
So it is not biblical and you agree with this, right?
That Hod has and is ueseing woman in the ministrie to reach the World with the Gospel is no question!

 

[101G]

101G.......Do you not understand that you are manipulating the Scriptures for your own interpretation??????

Joel said that ALL OF THOSE things would happen in the LAST DAYS!

first thanks for the reply, second, DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE LAST DAYS STARTED?, listen again.... Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

did you hear? "LAST DAYS". they, the Last ... "DAY(S) we been in since our Lord Jesus caqme. and TWO of those day are at it's end, and the third day is approaching quickly. listen, 2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

now as said, the Lord Jesus has been gone only TWO DAYS, and the THIRD DAY DAY is closing in soon. why do I say this, listen, Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight."
Hosea 6:3 "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." BINGO,

see Major, our Lord Jesus has only been gone for only nearly two days. I'm no prophet, but he said you can know the signs, and one of the signs is that in 2030 it will be .... according to God time, the start of the THIRD "DAY" in these LAST "DAY(S)"

Just as our Lord was Raised up after three "DAY(S)", likewise us, scripture, Acts 10:40 "Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;"

now when in the THIRD DAY this happen, no man knows. which means I don't know, and why I'm not saying a thing on this. but as said, know this, we can know the signs, well one sign is this in that "DAY", listen, Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

now how short? again, no man knows.....

so your point, these days we're living in are the LAST "DAY(S). now if you cannot understand this, sorry for you lack of understanding, I have presented scriptures clear as DAY that shows that we're in the last day...... for the Lord First coming, until his return is the LAST DAY(S).

now hear this, Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

see Major, ""Immediately after the tribulation of those days", wars and rumours of wars, nation aganist nation, and as mention above in Matthew 24:30, those things will HAPPEN just before his COMING, but the apostle Peter by the Holy Ghost said, Acts 2:14 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:"
Acts 2:15 "For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day."
Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

NOW, I ask you, "did God who is the Holy Spirit that was poured out on the day of Pentecost LIE?" I hope you say no, for is not you're calling the God a lier, God forbid.

see, I'm just Like Isaiah, "Who hath believed our report?

you can believe or NOT, my Job is to tell you........


PICJAG,
101G.

 

[cv5]

What's different is both the conclusion and the path by which we get there. You believe that the passage teaches that women may not lead in the Church because Adam was created before Eve. I believe that the passage is addressing a particular situation that is strongly implied but not spelled out in the letter, and that Paul's reference to the creation order was not the reason for a prohibition on women teaching, but rather a refutation of erroneous teaching, the holding of which would preclude a woman (or, frankly, anyone) from teaching prior to receiving proper Christian instruction.

Dino.....you have the entire thing inverted, upside down, turned inside out and backwards. Incredible really.

 

[CS1]

Yes, you are right , this is realy a foolish question! Of course she can not.
So 1.Tim. 3 is for man not for an woman.
The theme of this thread is not can a woman be in the ministrie for God.
The theme is: are Woman Pastors biblical.
So it is not biblical and you agree with this, right?
That Hod has and is ueseing woman in the ministrie to reach the World with the Gospel is no question!

huh?

 

[Major]

first thanks for the reply, second, DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE LAST DAYS STARTED?, listen again.... Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

did you hear? "LAST DAYS". they, the Last ... "DAY(S) we been in since our Lord Jesus caqme. and TWO of those day are at it's end, and the third day is approaching quickly. listen, 2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

now as said, the Lord Jesus has been gone only TWO DAYS, and the THIRD DAY DAY is closing in soon. why do I say this, listen, Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight."
Hosea 6:3 "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." BINGO,

see Major, our Lord Jesus has only been gone for only nearly two days. I'm no prophet, but he said you can know the signs, and one of the signs is that in 2030 it will be .... according to God time, the start of the THIRD "DAY" in these LAST "DAY(S)"

Just as our Lord was Raised up after three "DAY(S)", likewise us, scripture, Acts 10:40 "Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;"

now when in the THIRD DAY this happen, no man knows. which means I don't know, and why I'm not saying a thing on this. but as said, know this, we can know the signs, well one sign is this in that "DAY", listen, Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

now how short? again, no man knows.....

so your point, these days we're living in are the LAST "DAY(S). now if you cannot understand this, sorry for you lack of understanding, I have presented scriptures clear as DAY that shows that we're in the last day...... for the Lord First coming, until his return is the LAST DAY(S).

now hear this, Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

see Major, ""Immediately after the tribulation of those days", wars and rumours of wars, nation aganist nation, and as mention above in Matthew 24:30, those things will HAPPEN just before his COMING, but the apostle Peter by the Holy Ghost said, Acts 2:14 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:"
Acts 2:15 "For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day."
Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

NOW, I ask you, "did God who is the Holy Spirit that was poured out on the day of Pentecost LIE?" I hope you say no, for is not you're calling the God a lier, God forbid.

see, I'm just Like Isaiah, "Who hath believed our report?

you can believe or NOT, my Job is to tell you........


PICJAG,
101G.

Why YES I do my friend. the last days began already with the work of Jesus Christ in his death, resurrection and ascension. If we are going to follow Scripture, we should not look to the future and say “when do they start” but instead we should be looking to the past and saying, “How did they already start?”

NOW Why are you so angry????

Why so many bold yelling red letters????

Do you in some way think that those things makes you a big, smart Bible theologian?????

Your condescending attitude is very unbecoming and when and IF you think you can speak intelligently with me, I will be glad to respond IF you want to try again in a CHRISTIAN manner.......but not like you are doing now.

That kind of bullying may work for you on some......but not on me big boy!!!

 

[Major]

My short stint with the word leads me to believe that the topic of women teaching in the church is moot. In the 1st Century during the church age, it was required. Today in the last days, the external local church is not in existence, and thus there is neither male or female or Greek or Jew etc. etc.etc. We are all one in Christ.
Really today we are being tested and unfortunately many so-called Christians are stuck in the dark ages, believing in lies promulgated by the Devil, which will cause a great falling away.

Maybe you did not read what the Bible actually says. Let me post it for you as in reality, in the 1st century, IT WAS NOT required of women to teach men.

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

1 Timothy 2:12..........
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

GOD said that.....not me!

 

[Major]

The role of pastor is greatly exaggerated in the present day church. The functions of the church as a body were virtually removed by Catholicism and have not really been restored. It's the primary reason for the decline of Christianity in the Western world. The burden has been placed on a few, usually paid professionals, while the congregation warms the pews and fills the coffers. It's little like the true church of God.

I do not think that has anything to do with the decline in Christianity at all.

I think Television and movies have done more to effect Christianity that anything else.

 

[Major]

The posts I responded to were the ones that state women must not speak or be in any kind of leadership, this is clearly unpauline

"UNPAULINE"??????

Am I the only one reading what the Bible actually does say Evmur.

Paul said in 1 Timothy 3:1-2......
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

1 Timothy 2:12.......
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

1 Tim. 2:11
" A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. "

1 Corinthians 14:34
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."

Are YOU sure you know what is Pauline and what is not??????

 

[101G]

Why YES I do my friend. the last days began already with the work of Jesus Christ in his death, resurrection and ascension. If we are going to follow Scripture, we should not look to the future and say “when do they start” but instead we should be looking to the past and saying, “How did they already start?”

NOW Why are you so angry????

Why so many bold yelling red letters????

Do you in some way think that those things makes you a big, smart Bible theologian?????

Your condescending attitude is very unbecoming and when and IF you think you can speak intelligently with me, I will be glad to respond IF you want to try again in a CHRISTIAN manner.......but not like you are doing now.

That kind of bullying may work for you on some......but not on me big boy!!!

first thanks, second, who's yelling? bold, and red letter calls one attention. so why are you so nervous? unless I'm angry, I WILL TELL YOU SO. so don't read anything into what I'm saying just stick to the scriptures, and leave your emotions to yourself, and stay in the Word only

Your condescending attitude is very unbecoming and when and IF you think you can speak intelligently with me, I will be glad to respond IF you want to try again in a CHRISTIAN manner.......but not like you are doing now.

That kind of bullying may work for you on some......but not on me big boy!!!

BIG BOY?, look who's condescending ... but that's childish, lets stay on the Word of God.

now, can you reprove what I posted in #2033? remember no emotions, or vain babbling, just scripture...


PICJAG,
101G.

 

[Dino246]

Dino.....you have the entire thing inverted, upside down, turned inside out and backwards. Incredible really.

“Incredible”? I’ll take that as a compliment.

 

[Truth7t7]

Totally true. He, and others like him, do have problems with the word of God. I have put this fellow (with a few others of similar mind) on ignore long ago, seeing he only want to find a reason to argue and bounce the same thing back and forth, limitless.

Yes, people who want to impose their own mindset after own taste and their own anachronistic ideas unto scripture and church history have a big problem. What they do is not only presumptuous, it's very dishonest and ugly too. It speaks of a very goofy state spiritually.

I Agree 100% well put, open rebellion to Gods clear words of truth sums it up

 

[Aidan1]

What's different is both the conclusion and the path by which we get there. You believe that the passage teaches that women may not lead in the Church because Adam was created before Eve. I believe that the passage is addressing a particular situation that is strongly implied but not spelled out in the letter, and that Paul's reference to the creation order was not the reason for a prohibition on women teaching, but rather a refutation of erroneous teaching, the holding of which would preclude a woman (or, frankly, anyone) from teaching prior to receiving proper Christian instruction.

But invites your view then not a wide range of speculations, while the written word is clear and not to misundetstood.
It is not only because of the verses which clear says why woman should not be teach and lead man. Beginning with the creation order first man then woman. Then genesis 3 where the woman is judged from God because of her trusting the snake more then God. But you know the verses.
Read post 2.036 from Major.
What you think why God gave this through his Holy Spirit, if it has according you an opposit meaning?