Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

[CS1]

There are a few things that are a stark difference. Where the bible says they spoke in tongues it says, " they spoke in tongues and prophecied". Speaking a language and telling the word of God, and it was upon the laying on of the hands of an apostle. If you notice that Philip never did this, he only baptised with water. So what's going on here? Also in the pastoral epistles, you see no directive to continue this practice, yet it is the central theme of The Pentecostal movement. Now I do believe that God can and does cause a man where ever necessary to be able to speak a language he does not know.
I also believe that prophecy is a matter of how it's defined, if you mean a special unique word from God that is extra biblical then no it's not happening. If you mean being able to expound upon the word of God applying to modern and unique situations, then yes, and yes it is a gift of the Holy Spirit to do so. I also believe that a man on a mission from God will have God's protection from such things as snake bites, and such because God's mission will not be thwarted by happen stance.
I also believe that if we follow the instructions given by Paul to James in the 5th chapter faithfully that the sick will indeed be saved as it is written.
I think pentecostalism is a very mislead borderline cult teaching some borderline heresies.

Your understanding of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as shown in 1cor chapters 12 through 14 say differently. When I hear those say

" I do believe that God can" yet, in the same breath will say heHE doesn't anymore unless I verify it.

"I also believe that prophecy is a matter of how it's defined,". Of course as in line with the word of God. No pentecostal ever says it is extra Bible. that is a false narrative. Created by those who see an error in one then claim it is the same for all.

I see where many say " I believe" yet, it is really I will determine as I see it if it is real and if it is God. many say they will tell you what is an application and the full context of scripture

YET they do the very thing they claim others are doing by adding to the word of God as many cencessionist have done with 1cor 13:8-13



1 Corinthians 13:8-10

King James Version



8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.



Those who are against the Holy Spirit gifts for today use these passages to tell you this is the Canonizing on the word of God the Bible.
' Then they go into some kind of allegorical overly spiritualized interpretation that would have most Pentecostals running from it.

Rember it was not the Pentecostal movement who went out of the word of God to find Pagan practices and ungodly rituals it was those who say they are Christians but against the gifts of the Holy Spirit as being for today.

Most Pentecostal will stand by those who say barking like a dog, and the foolishness seen by those who ARE Rebels IS unbiblical.

BUT the empowering of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1cor chapter 12 -14 say Nothing contextually they have ended once the Bible was made or canonized. IT is not there. But they will try to interject that false narrative.

Eph 4:7-11 the gifts of Christ are for today and have not gone away.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Your understanding of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as shown in 1cor chapters 12 through 14 say differently. When I hear those say

" I do believe that God can" yet, in the same breath will say heHE doesn't anymore unless I verify it.

"I also believe that prophecy is a matter of how it's defined,". Of course as in line with the word of God. No pentecostal ever says it is extra Bible. that is a false narrative. Created by those who see an error in one then claim it is the same for all.

I see where many say " I believe" yet, it is really I will determine as I see it if it is real and if it is God. many say they will tell you what is an application and the full context of scripture

YET they do the very thing they claim others are doing by adding to the word of God as many cencessionist have done with 1cor 13:8-13



1 Corinthians 13:8-10

King James Version



8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.



Those who are against the Holy Spirit gifts for today use these passages to tell you this is the Canonizing on the word of God the Bible.
' Then they go into some kind of allegorical overly spiritualized interpretation that would have most Pentecostals running from it.

Rember it was not the Pentecostal movement who went out of the word of God to find Pagan practices and ungodly rituals it was those who say they are Christians but against the gifts of the Holy Spirit as being for today.

Most Pentecostal will stand by those who say barking like a dog, and the foolishness seen by those who ARE Rebels IS unbiblical.

BUT the empowering of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1cor chapter 12 -14 say Nothing contextually they have ended once the Bible was made or canonized. IT is not there. But they will try to interject that false narrative.

Eph 4:7-11 the gifts of Christ are for today and have not gone away.

I have heard many say "thus saith the Lord". In fact this whole presidential election unveiled a many of false prophet. From Kenneth Copeland down to small time You Tube guys. And the worst of the worst Tod White.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

I watch a youtube channel called fighting for the faith, what he does is compare what people are saying in the name of the Lord to what the word of God says. It's horrific what many main line big name pastors say and many of them are Pentecostal.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Your understanding of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as shown in 1cor chapters 12 through 14 say differently. When I hear those say

" I do believe that God can" yet, in the same breath will say heHE doesn't anymore unless I verify it.

"I also believe that prophecy is a matter of how it's defined,". Of course as in line with the word of God. No pentecostal ever says it is extra Bible. that is a false narrative. Created by those who see an error in one then claim it is the same for all.

I see where many say " I believe" yet, it is really I will determine as I see it if it is real and if it is God. many say they will tell you what is an application and the full context of scripture

YET they do the very thing they claim others are doing by adding to the word of God as many cencessionist have done with 1cor 13:8-13



1 Corinthians 13:8-10

King James Version



8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.



Those who are against the Holy Spirit gifts for today use these passages to tell you this is the Canonizing on the word of God the Bible.
' Then they go into some kind of allegorical overly spiritualized interpretation that would have most Pentecostals running from it.

Rember it was not the Pentecostal movement who went out of the word of God to find Pagan practices and ungodly rituals it was those who say they are Christians but against the gifts of the Holy Spirit as being for today.

Most Pentecostal will stand by those who say barking like a dog, and the foolishness seen by those who ARE Rebels IS unbiblical.

BUT the empowering of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1cor chapter 12 -14 say Nothing contextually they have ended once the Bible was made or canonized. IT is not there. But they will try to interject that false narrative.

Eph 4:7-11 the gifts of Christ are for today and have not gone away.

I'm not a cessationist.
What I have witnessed myself, from attending Pentecostal, and non-denominational churches, this is where I speak from.
Oddly every Pentecostal who says we are not like that says watch this video from my church and it's the same stuff in varying degrees.

 

[Lookupnotback]

Your stereo typing of Pentecostals is not correct. You must no more about Voodoo then the average Pentecostal. We stay away from Voodoo.

those who attack us have to go outside the word of God to use what is not in the bible to discredit what those who see in the word of God and believe God still does today.

and the healing of people doesn't have to be solely in accordance with James 5 as the Baptist suggests. Also, is man(council) who canonized the word of God, or was the word of God done because it is the word of God?

So please be more specific in your vague explanation please?

 

[Lookupnotback]

You still have not understood two things: (1) Scripture IMPLIES many things and (2) the gift of the Holy Ghost is no different than the baptism with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is poured out on the one who believes (see Titus 3:4-7).

....or more succinctly, the Holy Spirit come to live within, not poured out upon.

 

[CS1]

I have heard many say "thus saith the Lord". In fact this whole presidential election unveiled a many of false prophet. From Kenneth Copeland down to small time You Tube guys. And the worst of the worst Tod White.

then your issue is with Kenneth Copeland and Tod White and those who said it. I do not listen to either of them nor do I follow them.

 

[CS1]

I'm not a cessationist.
What I have witnessed myself, from attending Pentecostal, and non-denominational churches, this is where I speak from.
Oddly every Pentecostal who says we are not like that says watch this video from my church and it's the same stuff in varying degrees.

that is fine, however, your experience doesn't null n void the word of God as shown in 1cor 12-14. And again the pentecostal you talk to, there is only 3 million of them in my denomination and if you don't know it we have a point memo and positional letters on this kind of thing, yet there are those who do not adhere as there are in all churches. The baptist and many others have done equally foolish yet the Southern Baptist have long standing of doctrinal positions against what some did in that denomination.

I do not hold all baptist to Eddie long, Jessie Jackson, Rick Warren, and many others who have made Millions and compromised the word of God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

....or more succinctly, the Holy Spirit come to live within, not poured out upon.

I am simply going by the meaning of baptism which is literally immersion, but since the Bible speaks of the Holy Ghost as being poured out as a gift upon the believer, that is the biblical expression. But it eventually means the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 10:45).

 

[CS1]

So please be more specific in your vague explanation please?

I was not vague if you have followed the thread and understand the position of many cessationists, then you would know exactly what I am talking about

 

[ronair]

Your stereo typing of Pentecostals is not correct. You must no more about Voodoo then the average Pentecostal. We stay away from Voodoo.

those who attack us have to go outside the word of God to use what is not in the bible to discredit what those who see in the word of God and believe God still does today.

and the healing of people doesn't have to be solely in accordance with James 5 as the Baptist suggests. Also, is man(council) who canonized the word of God, or was the word of God done because it is the word of God?

Pentecostals are simply discredited by virtue of:

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.”

- Mark 13:21–23

Claims of supernatural manifestions of the Holy Spirit, no matter how small, are bogus by nature when evidence can not be shown.

The Holy Spirit does nothing in secret. When called upon to prove their claims, Pentecostals fold like a cheap suit. This is the 600lb. gorilla in the room that they ignore but the wise see quite well.

 

[ronair]

I'm not a cessationist.
What I have witnessed myself, from attending Pentecostal, and non-denominational churches, this is where I speak from.
Oddly every Pentecostal who says we are not like that says watch this video from my church and it's the same stuff in varying degrees.

I too have witnessed this same mindset.

"We are not like those crazy people" but go to their service and its the same in one form or another.

 

[CS1]

Pentecostals are simply discredited by virtue of:

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.”

- Mark 13:21–23

Claims of supernatural manifestions of the Holy Spirit, no matter how small, are bogus by nature when evidence can not be shown.

The Holy Spirit does nothing in secret. When called upon to prove their claims, Pentecostals fold like a cheap suit. This is the 600lb. gorilla in the room that they ignore but the wise see quite well.

That is just a flat-out lie and misuse of the word of God to attack those you disagree with.

The context of those verses has nothing to with one seeking the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1corthians chapter 12 through 14 or the empowering of the Holy Spirit as the Lord Jesus said.

The context of those who are false christ and of lying signs and wonders came from the devil, Not the Holy Spirit.

Your opinion is nothing more than your own bias and hatred for those you disagree with. yet I did not see where you even tried to address 1cor 13:8-10 point made.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

that is fine, however, your experience doesn't null n void the word of God as shown in 1cor 12-14. And again the pentecostal you talk to, there is only 3 million of them in my denomination and if you don't know it we have a point memo and positional letters on this kind of thing, yet there are those who do not adhere as there are in all churches. The baptist and many others have done equally foolish yet the Southern Baptist have long standing of doctrinal positions against what some did in that denomination.

I do not hold all baptist to Eddie long, Jessie Jackson, Rick Warren, and many others who have made Millions and compromised the word of God.

I'm not baptist or cessationist.

 

[CS1]

I'm not baptist or cessationist.

I'm no the pentecostal you have experienced with either and?

 

[Scribe]

I too have witnessed this same mindset.

"We are not like those crazy people" but go to their service and its the same in one form or another.

I have noticed that the non pentecostal churches seem to be empty. And those that attend seem indifferent to the things of God.

It has always been difficult to find someone who seems confident enough about the bible to have an opinion about anything. It's like they are just going there to say they went to church and get it over with. I have also noticed that they seem embarrassed about the idea of raising their hands in worship or showing any kind of enthusiasm.

See what I did there? One man's idea of crazy, is another man's idea of you're too worried about what people think of you and are embarrassed to show Jesus any real emotion in public.

Many of us would rather go to a church where people seem weird in the eyes of the polished and sophisticated instead of the church where a "hallelujah" will get you frowns or snickered at. A Church were everyone seems exuberant about adoring Jesus verses one where they are fanning themselves and sitting in silence waiting for the service to get over. Give me weirdos any day.

I will gladly be foolish for Christ dancing as David did, than to go to a church full of Michals who are embarrassed to see me do it.

Speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues, prophesy, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, all these things seem weird to the carnal Christian who is too concerned about what people would think of them if they did these things.

The rejection of the Spiritual gifts not because they have ceased but because one "wishes" they would cease so they don't have to answer to their lack of desire for them is known by God who knows the secret of every heart.

 

[ronair]

That is just a flat-out lie and misuse of the word of God to attack those you disagree with.

The context of those verses has nothing to with one seeking the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1corthians chapter 12 through 14 or the empowering of the Holy Spirit as the Lord Jesus said.

The context of those who are false christ and of lying signs and wonders came from the devil, Not the Holy Spirit.

Your opinion is nothing more than your own bias and hatred for those you disagree with. yet I did not see where you even tried to address 1cor 13:8-10 point made.

You are like 99% of pentecostals, terrifed to address the real issue. You will not look the gorilla in the eyes, fearful of what you will see.

This is why it is so very hard to reach out to pentacostals, for them to admit error is to admit their role in the larger hoax.

Pentecostals can not grasp the truth because to do so would mean admitting their years of tongues was but babble, I understand.

Pentecostal "supernatural abilities" are not of the devil, they are simply not supernatural. Just a strong and passionate desire for something to be true. When we want something to be true, we will find a way to believe it.

CS1 think about these things.

 

[Scribe]

Pentecostals are simply discredited by virtue of:

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.”

- Mark 13:21–23

Claims of supernatural manifestions of the Holy Spirit, no matter how small, are bogus by nature when evidence can not be shown.

The Holy Spirit does nothing in secret. When called upon to prove their claims, Pentecostals fold like a cheap suit. This is the 600lb. gorilla in the room that they ignore but the wise see quite well.

1 Cor 14: 1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.

You are making up your own theology. It does not match what Paul wrote about this subject. The thread is about whether these have continued, from Corinth until today. Or if they have ceased. The use of those claiming to be the Messaiah that would come after Jesus has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit Gifts given to the church for the edification of all in the church.

There are many, many people who have asked for prayer by those who believe on the laying on of hands or anointing with oil like it says in James and have been healed of cancers and other things that Doctors have no explanation for and documented it as unknown, or some other category because they have no answer why the tumor disappeared. Things like this are documented. Why do people say they are not? They don't want to believe it I suppose. We have a lady in our church who was biopsied and tested positive for cancer and she asked for prayer and we laid hands on her and the tumor disappeared and the doctors had to cancel surgery after they could not find the tumor that they HAS ALREADY BIOPSIED. MIRACLE. She will show anyone who asks the medical papers showing it all. And still they will say, it is some other explanation. So who cares. There will always be doubters. Believers are cut from a different cloth.

 

[Scribe]

You are like 99% of pentecostals, terrifed to address the real issue. You will not look the gorilla in the eyes, fearful of what you will see.

This is why it is so very hard to reach out to pentacostals, for them to admit error is to admit their role in the larger hoax.

Pentecostals can not grasp the truth because to do so would mean admitting their years of tongues was but babble, I understand.

Pentecostal "supernatural abilities" are not of the devil, they are simply not supernatural. Just a strong and passionate desire for something to be true. When we want something to be true, we will find a way to believe it.

CS1 think about these things.

You have not asked many Pentecostals who have been healed to show proof or you would have chosen another line of argument. I know of many who can produce medical documentation of healing of cancer, without treatments. Broken bones. Xrays one day apart, one with a fracture the other whole. DOCUMENTED before witnesses. The broken bone xray event was witnessed by a Warden, a Prison Doctor, and a 2nd Lieutenant in a prison in Texas when I was saved in the early 80s. They did not know what to say about it other than to give the prison fellowship group there more freedom to meet and preach as a result.

You need to meet more Pentecostals and ask for your proof. But don't deny it when they show it to you. Practice the intellectual honesty you seem to be decrying.

 

[ronair]

I have noticed that the non pentecostal churches seem to be empty. And those that attend seem indifferent to the things of God.

It has always been difficult to find someone who seems confident enough about the bible to have an opinion about anything. It's like they are just going there to say they went to church and get it over with. I have also noticed that they seem embarrassed about the idea of raising their hands in worship or showing any kind of enthusiasm.

See what I did there? One man's idea of crazy, is another man's idea of you're too worried about what people think of you and are embarrassed to show Jesus any real emotion in public.

Many of us would rather go to a church where people seem weird in the eyes of the polished and sophisticated instead of the church where a "hallelujah" will get you frowns or snickered at. A Church were everyone seems exuberant about adoring Jesus verses one where they are fanning themselves and sitting in silence waiting for the service to get over. Give me weirdos any day.

I will gladly be foolish for Christ dancing as David did, than to go to a church full of Michals who are embarrassed to see me do it.

Speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues, prophesy, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, all these things seem weird to the carnal Christian who is too concerned about what people would think of them if they did these things.

The rejection of the Spiritual gifts not because they have ceased but because one "wishes" they would cease so they don't have to answer to their lack of desire for them is known by God who knows the secret of every heart.

David dancing before the Lord was a dance to a real God not the god of false manifestations. Pentecostals "dance" before a collection of false claims and mindless babble. There is no virtue in being exuberant in a church based on a false narrative.

"Speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues, prophesy, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, all these things seem weird to the carnal Christian who is too concerned about what people would think of them if they did these things." What should concern you is that these claimed events are not of God but from the minds of men.