50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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Funny because when I first heard of the pre-trib rapture doctrine clearly layed out it was on the message board by you or one of the other pre-tribbers. I took a good look at it and immediately noticed a lot of red flags, false doctrine, poor scripture interpretation, etc. It doesn't make sense. It's definitely a false doctrine.
Since then I have learned so much. Now I can defend the faith much more efficiently than when I first started. Thanks for helping me scrutinize my views by asking hard questions. Post-tribualtion stands the test of truth.
Since then I have learned so much. Now I can defend the faith much more efficiently than when I first started. Thanks for helping me scrutinize my views by asking hard questions. Post-tribualtion stands the test of truth.
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The text does not state: "is at hand"... instead, the text states "IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative; G1764 - enestēken - https://biblehub.com/text/2_thessalonians/2-2.htm ]"... then note what the "PERFECT indicative" ("PERFECT tense") means... it doesn't mean that it is something that is UPCOMING (ahead) and soon-but-yet-to-occur, no.
The words you supplied are not in the text. I'm supplying the words which ARE in the text.
And that is just the START of our going over this text.
They do mean what they say.
The issue is, they do not say what you've presented them to be saying (and I'm just talking, here, about the one phrase thus far).
This is the case with quite a few of the phrases in this context: either they actually SAY something different, or in another place are DEFINED differently than how it's "commonly defined" out there (instead of the "biblical" definition of such-and-such--Example: the "Amill-teaching's" definition of "the day of the Lord" is "off"/not accurate [which, MANY OTHERS simply "repeat as true"]... so there we get to the next point in what Paul is actually conveying here.)
So, for [one of] the first question / fill-in-the-blanks, you get a "failing grade," so to speak
Try again. We all have to do this, so you're not alone. = )
The words you supplied are not in the text. I'm supplying the words which ARE in the text.
And that is just the START of our going over this text.
They do mean what they say.
The issue is, they do not say what you've presented them to be saying (and I'm just talking, here, about the one phrase thus far).
This is the case with quite a few of the phrases in this context: either they actually SAY something different, or in another place are DEFINED differently than how it's "commonly defined" out there (instead of the "biblical" definition of such-and-such--Example: the "Amill-teaching's" definition of "the day of the Lord" is "off"/not accurate [which, MANY OTHERS simply "repeat as true"]... so there we get to the next point in what Paul is actually conveying here.)
So, for [one of] the first question / fill-in-the-blanks, you get a "failing grade," so to speak
Try again. We all have to do this, so you're not alone. = )
Regardless of how you circumnavigate the truth presented to you, the unfolding of real-world events will match scripture.
If you aren't prepared the great tribulation will appear and the rapture you're expecting won't happen.
The falling away, great apostasy, of the church will most likely be a lot of pre-tribbers who didn't get raptured and are either disillusioned or angry at God. They'll fall away in masses and then the man of sin will be revealed.
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I believe the false teaching in Millennialism is preparing the way for the future (Man of Sin/Antichrist)?
The teaching has a physical Christ returning, taking a literal throne of David in Jerusalem amongst mortal humans, starting a Millennium on earth?
Bingo! The Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast, The Antichrist
The teaching has a physical Christ returning, taking a literal throne of David in Jerusalem amongst mortal humans, starting a Millennium on earth?
Bingo! The Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast, The Antichrist
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It doesn't make sense because of your bush-league Biblical knowledge and failures of exegesis.
Same goes with the rest of the people supporting post-trib. Very shoddy work and shot full of holes......rambling incoherent inconclusive.
TDW is crushing it. One grand slam after another. Sweeping the series. Golfed 18 shot 18.
This victory coming by vastly superior & comprehensive biblical knowledge, correctly translating the specific greek terms, coordinating OT prophecies with New Testament revelation.
Y'all should be doing yourself a big favor by paying strict attention.
Same goes with the rest of the people supporting post-trib. Very shoddy work and shot full of holes......rambling incoherent inconclusive.
TDW is crushing it. One grand slam after another. Sweeping the series. Golfed 18 shot 18.
This victory coming by vastly superior & comprehensive biblical knowledge, correctly translating the specific greek terms, coordinating OT prophecies with New Testament revelation.
Y'all should be doing yourself a big favor by paying strict attention.
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No. The text does not say that.
Instead of "is at hand," it says, "is present [PERFECT indicative]".
And the "PERFECT tense" means:
"ACTION COMPLETED at a SPECIFIC POINT of TIME in PAST (●) with results CONTINUING into the PRESENT (▬►). In certain contexts the results are PERMANENT."
Your "definition" is not fitting the actual word here.
See the LISTING of the 7 occurrences of this word (only 2Tim3:1 is in the "FUTURE tense"):
https://biblehub.com/greek/1764.htm [LISTING at right hand side]
Again, our present verse under discussion is "PERFECT tense, indicative"... so should read "IS PRESENT".
Now, the question becomes, just WHAT was it they (those telling them this) were saying "IS PRESENT"? What "IS PRESENT," according to the verse (that is, what others were telling them was the case, at that time)??
"[(anyone)... purporting] that ________ IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative]" [<--how do you "define" the phrase that fits in that blank?]
What were those false conveyors telling the Thessalonians... "IS PRESENT"?
Instead of "is at hand," it says, "is present [PERFECT indicative]".
And the "PERFECT tense" means:
"ACTION COMPLETED at a SPECIFIC POINT of TIME in PAST (●) with results CONTINUING into the PRESENT (▬►). In certain contexts the results are PERMANENT."
Your "definition" is not fitting the actual word here.
See the LISTING of the 7 occurrences of this word (only 2Tim3:1 is in the "FUTURE tense"):
https://biblehub.com/greek/1764.htm [LISTING at right hand side]
Again, our present verse under discussion is "PERFECT tense, indicative"... so should read "IS PRESENT".
Now, the question becomes, just WHAT was it they (those telling them this) were saying "IS PRESENT"? What "IS PRESENT," according to the verse (that is, what others were telling them was the case, at that time)??
"[(anyone)... purporting] that ________ IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative]" [<--how do you "define" the phrase that fits in that blank?]
What were those false conveyors telling the Thessalonians... "IS PRESENT"?
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"The GREAT tribulation" is speaking SOLELY of the SECOND HALF of the seven years. It doesn't simply "APPEAR".
The "whose COMING [/advent / arrival / presence / parousia]" of the "man of sin" (2Th2:9a) will have already occurred WAY before that point in time, as will have FOUR out of the SEVEN [judgment] Trumpets (not to mention the SEALS preceding those FOUR), by this point you are speaking of with your word: "appear" ('the great tribulation will appear...').
Your "chronology" is WAY off... You seem to be simply "going with the flow" of things you've "heard" (and simply repeating it), rather than "what you've put" having come from a place of thorough "study" (yourself).
The "whose COMING [/advent / arrival / presence / parousia]" of the "man of sin" (2Th2:9a) will have already occurred WAY before that point in time, as will have FOUR out of the SEVEN [judgment] Trumpets (not to mention the SEALS preceding those FOUR), by this point you are speaking of with your word: "appear" ('the great tribulation will appear...').
Your "chronology" is WAY off... You seem to be simply "going with the flow" of things you've "heard" (and simply repeating it), rather than "what you've put" having come from a place of thorough "study" (yourself).
(Dispensationalism) is not only a false teaching in a pre-trib rapture, but it also falsely teaches the book of Revelation is taught in chronological order a lie!
The book of Revelation is taught in parallel teachings of same events
(Dispensationalism's) false chronological teaching, allows for the invention of "Multiple" accounts of events at different times, Resurrections, Wars, etc (A Lie)
(Dispensationalism) also falsely teaches a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth at the return of Jesus Chrsit, where Jesus Christ will take a physical throne of David in Jerusalem on this earth amongst mortal humans?
This will be the future Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast, The Antichrist
The book of Revelation is taught in parallel teachings of same events
(Dispensationalism's) false chronological teaching, allows for the invention of "Multiple" accounts of events at different times, Resurrections, Wars, etc (A Lie)
(Dispensationalism) also falsely teaches a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth at the return of Jesus Chrsit, where Jesus Christ will take a physical throne of David in Jerusalem on this earth amongst mortal humans?
This will be the future Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast, The Antichrist
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Nobody even reads DivineWatermarks Chaos in posts, and I'm one of them
No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, no place!
You will closely note you run about forums with one liners in personal attacks, because you have no scripture to present, because it doesn't exist
No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, no place!
You will closely note you run about forums with one liners in personal attacks, because you have no scripture to present, because it doesn't exist
There is no doubt that this person is espousing the correct Biblical position and is speaking the truth in righteousness. No doubt.
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Your claim is false, just as your claim (Apostasia) being a departure of the church to heaven is false
The scripture is very clear, there will be a falling away from a once held beliefs (Apostasy) and the church will be present on earth to witness the (Man of Sin) revealed
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means) That includes you
2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
The scripture is very clear, there will be a falling away from a once held beliefs (Apostasy) and the church will be present on earth to witness the (Man of Sin) revealed
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means) That includes you
2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
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In a classic case of dodge ball, this interview showcases the typical postribbers style and technique.
The guy in the white shirt asks specific questions. at the 6;39 mark we can get a clear view of how DR baker cunningly dodges the questions and never answer them. (classic postribbers MO)
FF to 6;39
The guy in the white shirt asks specific questions. at the 6;39 mark we can get a clear view of how DR baker cunningly dodges the questions and never answer them. (classic postribbers MO)
FF to 6;39
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