Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[cv5]

You have been told already that the male nouns and pronouns do not exist in the Greek of this passage, with the sole exception of husband. You are arguing from a position of stubborn, willful ignorance, and you are wrong.

Wow no female nouns/pronouns here either...4X. For reasons that are obvious...

Rom 16:2
that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Commandments, doctrine and order of the Church comes first.
Everything else follows. Deviations are to be addressed and corrected​

 

[cv5]

thanks for the reply, but I'll go with the BIBLe.

and as for as our sister, Phebe
Romans 16:1 & 2 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

the word succourer reveals clearly as to what business she was to perform. the word succourer: is G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pros-tat'-is) n. 1. a patroness, i.e. assistant. it’s the feminine of a derivative of G4291, the male counter part. the derivative here is like saying Prophet, (male) is to a Prophetess, (female)
and what is G4291? Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-iy'-stee-miy) v.
1. to stand before.
2. (in rank) to preside.
3. (by implication) to practise.
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule
Root(s): G4253, G2476

so our Sister was in a position thar she be rule over, as in OVERSEER? and here's why,
Thayer's Greek Definitions
succourer
Original: προστάτις
- Transliteration: Prostatis
- Phonetic: pros-tat'-is
- Definition:
1. a woman set over others
2. a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources
- Origin: from a derivative of G4291
- TDNT entry: None

it says, Origin: from a derivative of G4291, ok what's G4291

G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-iy'-stee-miy) v.
- Original: προΐ́στημι
- Transliteration: Proistemi
- Phonetic: pro-is'-tay-mee
- Definition:
1. to set or place before
a. to set over
b. to be over, to superintend, preside over
c. to be a protector or guardian
1. to give aid
d. to care for, give attention to
1. profess honest occupations
- Origin: from G4253 and G2476
- TDNT entry: 6:700,*

From the above two definition, #1a, and 1b, our sister Phebe is a female in the same position, or function, the same work as the male counter paart in the same position or function. Lets look at a bishop from the above two definitions.

1a. to set over, scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues”.
question?, so where is the Bishop or the Pastor in this scripture? the Bishop/Pastor is in the apostle, the prophet, and the teacher. because the pastor is not a office, but a work. an office is not in the Hebrew mindset, but in western culture, or thinking, it is understood that way.

1b. to be over, to superintend, preside over, scripture, Hebrews 13:17 "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you”. Hebrews 13:7 "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation”.
1 Thessalonians 5:12 "And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you”.

So a succourer, a female, in this case, WHO IS IN THE LORD, is one set over, rule, and preside over other. It also states, to superintend, and to care for, give attention to. Lets look at the bishop duties.

Bishop: G1984 ἐπισκοπή episkope (e-piy-sko-pee') n.
1. inspection (for relief).
2. (by implication) superintendence.
3. (specially) the Christian “episcopate.”

episcopate? the word means, BISHOP. a bishop is to a superintendence, just as our Sister in her counterpart role as a Female succourer.
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi is to care for

This woman have bishop written all over her. Lets look at the bishop in 1 Timothy 3:1 "This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. so the Bishop office is a WORK. according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words concerning “office”, Noun, G4234 πρᾶξις praxis (prax`-is) n.
1. practice
2. (concretely) an act
3. (by extension) a function
[from G4238]
KJV: deed, office, work

so it's from,
G4238 πράσσω prasso (pras'-so) v.
1. to practice, i.e. perform repeatedly or habitually
2. (by implication) to execute, accomplish, etc.
3. (specially) to collect (dues), fare (personally)
KJV: commit, deeds, do, exact, keep, require, use arts

doing a deed" (akin to prasso, "to do or practice"), also denotes "an acting" or "function," translated "office" in Rom 12:4. See DEED. a deed is a work or Labor.

so the bible is clear, that this woman held the office of BISHOP, hence ordained.

PICJAG,
101G

Heavens no. Phoebe was engaged in the same sorts activities as the women during Christ's earthly ministry. Logistics, material support, hospitality, washing the feet of the saints etc.

Catapulting her into the office of bishop is absurd. Romans 16:2 sets the constraint.

 

[cv5]

No. You do NOT go with the Bible, you press something into the Bible which is not there. And I wonder where you have gotten this view from and who have taught you so. Whosoever that person or these persons be, have erred. Phoebe is quiet well known to be said to have been a deaconess, and a lady may be a deaconess. But not a bishop. Church history records do not list Phoebe as a bishop.

Imagine the upheaval if the apostles had ordained. If there was ordained women clergy in the early church then for sure we would have numerous records and mentioning of such among fathers, who would all agree on such information. But we don't. And do not make Paul preach against himself, will you. That will mess up things a lot for you.

Agreed. There is no documentary evidence whatsoever that during the time of Apostolic Church or the early Church women held the office of pastor/bishop/elder and were in a position of authority over men. Honestly I do not understand the continuing debate on the matter.

 

[101G]

Heavens no. Phoebe was engaged in the same sorts activities as the women during Christ's earthly ministry. Logistics, material support, hospitality, washing the feet of the saints etc.

Catapulting her into the office of bishop is absurd. Romans 16:2 sets the constraint.

thanks for the reply, but again we reject your assessment, the term "succourer" is plain as day, it’s the feminine of a derivative of G4291
a derivative comes from something else. let us place this in plain view. if I say, "Prophetess", where do it come from, or is derived from? answer, "Prophet", a Prophetess is simply a FEMALE Prophet.

a Female in the same position of a male in General Overseering or Pastoring/Bishop is here in our sister case, a succouer.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

Agreed. There is no documentary evidence whatsoever that during the time of Apostolic Church or the early Church women held the office of pastor/bishop/elder and were in a position of authority over men. Honestly I do not understand the continuing debate on the matter.

the documentary evidence is in the BIBLE. I trust the bible over men. if it's not the word of God, then I put no trust in it.


PICJAG, 101G.

 

[cv5]

thanks for the reply, but again we reject your assessment, the term "succourer" is plain as day, it’s the feminine of a derivative of G4291
a derivative comes from something else. let us place this in plain view. if I say, "Prophetess", where do it come from, or is derived from? answer, "Prophet", a Prophetess is simply a FEMALE Prophet.

a Female in the same position of a male in General Overseering or Pastoring/Bishop is here in our sister case, a succouer.

PICJAG, 101G.

I will leave that to your imagination. Strictly speaking however in terms of documentary evidence there is zero reason to believe that the genuine God ordained Church EVER had women installed in the office of pastor/bishop/elder. This is beyond refutation.

 

[tribesman]

Agreed. There is no documentary evidence whatsoever that during the time of Apostolic Church or the early Church women held the office of pastor/bishop/elder and were in a position of authority over men. Honestly I do not understand the continuing debate on the matter.

There has to be an agenda with this contention (which comes from pride - not a contending for the faith) and it has to be a wicked such. Some christians, sadly, have fallen prey to this delusion and we are trying to get them back on track again. For those wilfully out to divide and destroy the Church there is no hope and they will yet be hardened to receive a greater damnation.

 

[101G]

I will leave that to your imagination. Strictly speaking however in terms of documentary evidence there is zero reason to believe that the genuine God ordained Church EVER had women installed in the office of pastor/bishop/elder. This is beyond refutation.

First thanks for the reply, second, my imagination, nor my opinion is forbidden, and here's why, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

so anyone's imagination, or imaginations don't count, only the Facts, and they are WRITTEN in the bible. so we need to stick to Facts only. now if there is something I wrote that do not aling with the scriptures, then you may point out the mistake, but we will not argue at all, but only discuss. arguing is useless, but discussing is edifying for all the saints.

so lets discuss and not argue,

thanks in advance,
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

NOW, to discuss, I ask for all to consider this. when GOD poured out his Gifts, did he discriminate, or had respect of person as to who recieves which Gifts? this is to discuss. I say No, because the body is Neither male nor female, not in christ.

and one of the Gifts on the List in 1 Corinthians 12:8 is the Pastoral Gift, "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;" can anyone agree, if not we can discuss this point I'm making.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[peldom10]

This thread represents a typical ...new age religion....attempt to alter and reinterpret God's word and His intent ( of which such did not exist of record that can be found...prior to the 1960's)...along with;
OSAS
Baptism not necessary position (Baptists)
Surely God would not condemn millions of people....not withstanding the great flood did just that.
We need not do works for Christ.
etc.
All of which fits end time prophecies including...tickle my ears and tell me what I want to hear......part.

Really sad.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Your response is a diversion from God's words of truth below.

The Holy Spirit, who is the author of the inspired scripture, teaches women are to be silent in the church, and subject to their husband in learning at home, they are (Commanded) to be obedient

Its confusing and a shame for women to speak in the church, plain, clear, easy to understand.

It appears the Holy Spirit didn't attend the women's lib movement events and conference, and Gods words aren't going to change anytime soon

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

This is what I mean . . . which is that Jesus taught that there is neither male nor female in Christ, and then we have Paul (above) quoting the Law of Moses. Didn't Jesus set His Children free from the Law?

Romans 8:2 NKJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."

 

[101G]

This thread represents a typical ...new age religion....attempt to alter and reinterpret God's word and His intent ( of which such did not exist of record that can be found...prior to the 1960's)...along with;
OSAS
Baptism not necessary position (Baptists)
Surely God would not condemn millions of people....not withstanding the great flood did just that.
We need not do works for Christ.
etc.
All of which fits end time prophecies including...tickle my ears and tell me what I want to hear......part.

Really sad.

first thanks for the reply, second, what if itching ears got it wrong in the first place? and they want to only hear what they want to hear because of what they been told and not what was written?

see, this is why christian need to discuss, instead of arguing, by sticking one's head in the sand. if what one believes is trure, then it will stand the test of time. but if it's not it will fail.

just as Mary Magdalene was lable incorrectly, what else they mislable?

PICJAG, 101G

 

[Diakonos]

Well done young fellow. Keep up the good work.

Thank you. It is my joy and passion to herald the King's message

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

No. There is nothing perplexing about it. Paul ties it right back to the fact that Eve was deceived.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer [allow] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. (1 Tim 2:11-14)

A superficial reading might lead someone to conclude that when Paul says "I" this is his personal opinion. But Peter tells us very clearly that all of Paul's epistles are Scripture, so it is the Holy Spirit who directed Paul to make this statement as it is written.

Also, when Paul says that "Adam was first formed" it implies that the woman was created for the man, not vice versa. And that is also why Christian women are commanded to cover their heads during worship (1 Cor 11), to indicate that they are under the authority of their husbands. These things are not being taught in many churches.

Eve's disobedience brought a curse on women, and a part of that curse was (1) they were to be in submission to their own husbands and (2) they were forbidden to preach, teach, or usurp authority within the local church, since that would give them authority over men. Evidently, they would also be subjected to great pain during childbirth.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. (Gen 3:16)

It is primarily because of "Evangelical Feminism" that women began to push for inclusion in the leadership of churches, and many men did not have the guts to say that is totally unacceptable to God.

So "freedom in Christ" ends when a woman enters the Church? She can speak everywhere else . . . just not in a church?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It's only perplexing if you don't have ears to hear. If you do Paul comes through clear as a bell.

Awww . . . thanks for telling me that I'm not saved!

You're so kind.

 

[101G]

This is what I mean . . . which is that Jesus taught that there is neither male nor female in Christ, and then we have Paul (above) quoting the Law of Moses. Didn't Jesus set His Children free from the Law?

Romans 8:2 NKJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."

you're CORRECT, for the Law i not for those in Christ. scripture, 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"
1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

so the Law is for SINNERS, and if one is in Christ you're NOT under the Law.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[cv5]

So "freedom in Christ" ends when a woman enters the Church? She can speak everywhere else . . . just not in a church?

She cannot speak authoritatively in the ekklesia. Furthermore in the home or in public she is to submit to her husbands authority.

Anything to the contrary would be chaos and mayhem. Leading to a breakdown of the Church and the family. This much is obvious.

 

[cv5]

Awww . . . thanks for telling me that I'm not saved!

You're so kind.

I said no such thing. However should you feel the need to confess anything that's on your heart by all means do so....

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

She cannot speak authoritatively in the ekklesia. Furthermore, in the home or in public she is to submit to her husband's authority.

Anything to the contrary would be chaos and mayhem. Leading to a breakdown of the Church and the family. This much is obvious.

What you have written above . . . is this how you operate within your family?