Lord , Teach us To pray !

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throughfaith

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#42
Aug 4, 2020
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#42
Jesus did not teach this prayer to Christians .There are no Christians in any of the gospels—the word is a word applied to the New Testament Church after the resurrection, by their enemies—Acts 11:26)
 
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throughfaith

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#43
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#43
“Our Father” again refers to Israel, as is seen by the passage in which the prayer occurs (vss. 7–8, 6:32). Notice that “Our Father” is never given to a Gentile to pray, nor does Christ anywhere in the Sermon on the Mount even intimate that God is “Father” to anyone but an Israelite!
 
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throughfaith

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#44
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#44
no Christian is forgiven on the basis of forgiving others; he is forgiven, and cleansed, when he judges his own sin and confesses it to Jesus (1 Cor. 11:30–33; 1 John 1:9). If his forgiveness is conditional on forgiving others, then the atonement of Christ (not yet accomplished at this point!) is insufficient, for “forgiveness and remission” of sins are clearly said to be part of the finished work of Christ in the believer (Col. 1:14; Acts 13:38–40).
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#45
Sep 2, 2020
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#45
BillG said:
Prayer is very important and I say the subject matters.

If we look at subject matter then it is very important and it does matter.
We are looking at the words Jesus said and the advice and the intent to apply correctly.

Any reason why I cannot chime in? Why do you think I couldn't?

Possibly expand for me regarding "Anything we ask in his name" when 2 or 3 are gathered.

I was addressing the verses you quoted based on what Jesus was talking about, and I really feel we need to present the reality of what Jesus was staying.

Yes prayer is very important but the prayers we offer up are not to be according to our will but Gods.

May your will be done on earth as it is heaven.

God bless
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Sure it’s important I don’t think that how we pray changes based on what we’re praying about is my position . I think Jesus taught us to pray and what I myself , and this is just what I take out of it , what we are praying for doesn’t change how we are taught to pray

ultimately I think anytime believers come together in prayer is a good godly thing to do .

but again that’s just my own take and I respect you’re also . Thanks for dropping some thoughts
 
Blik

Blik

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#46
Dec 6, 2016
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#46
throughfaith said:
Jews ,yes . And what about the Rainbow after the flood ? doesn't this mark a change? a time line ? A difference?
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Do you think the flood, the rainbow, or even the way Christ lived in our time changed anything of God's eternal ways?

The gospel is the heart of scripture, and was from the day Adam and Eve disobeyed. The Lord wants us to live with Him forever, not die from our sins. All else relates to that.
 
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Guojing

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#47
Jan 12, 2019
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#47
Pilgrimshope said:
Sure it’s important I don’t think that how we pray changes based on what we’re praying about is my position . I think Jesus taught us to pray and what I myself , and this is just what I take out of it , what we are praying for doesn’t change how we are taught to pray

ultimately I think anytime believers come together in prayer is a good godly thing to do .

but again that’s just my own take and I respect you’re also . Thanks for dropping some thoughts
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I would recommend to anyone in the Body of Christ to pray based on what our apostle Paul taught us to pray instead.

There are so many prayers in Romans to Philemon which we could follow, my favorite are found in Romans 8:18-25 and Philippians 4:6-7
 
Blik

Blik

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#48
Dec 6, 2016
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#48
throughfaith said:
no Christian is forgiven on the basis of forgiving others; he is forgiven, and cleansed, when he judges his own sin and confesses it to Jesus (1 Cor. 11:30–33; 1 John 1:9). If his forgiveness is conditional on forgiving others, then the atonement of Christ (not yet accomplished at this point!) is insufficient, for “forgiveness and remission” of sins are clearly said to be part of the finished work of Christ in the believer (Col. 1:14; Acts 13:38–40).
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You are changing God's words by saying it is the "basis" of forgiveness. Grace is the basis. It is also true we must forgive others if we want to be forgiven. It is true it is not the basis of forgiveness. Don't mess with the Lord and His ways!
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#49
Aug 4, 2020
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#49
Blik said:
You are changing God's words by saying it is the "basis" of forgiveness. Grace is the basis. It is also true we must forgive others if we want to be forgiven. It is true it is not the basis of forgiveness. Don't mess with the Lord and His ways!
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I believe the DBR is the basis of being saved today. Thats how we can have access to the grace .
Rom 5
1¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
 
Blik

Blik

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#50
Dec 6, 2016
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#50
throughfaith said:
I believe the DBR is the basis of being saved today. Thats how we can have access to the grace .
Rom 5
1¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
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This is true, but this truth does not cancel the truth that if we want forgiveness, we must forgive, for scripture tells us this is so and scripture is truth.

Matt. 6:14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours.…
 
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throughfaith

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#51
Aug 4, 2020
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#51
Blik said:
This is true, but this truth does not cancel the truth that if we want forgiveness, we must forgive, for scripture tells us this is so and scripture is truth.

Matt. 6:14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours.…
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Can you not see that this is before The cross , before Jesus dies for the sins of the world ? Will God flood the earth again ? Will He give Moses the law again ? Is Jesus going to go to the cross again ? You do see things that won't be repeated again don't you ? surely you see things change in the bible?
 
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throughfaith

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#52
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#52
1ofthem

1ofthem

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#53
Mar 30, 2016
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#53
throughfaith said:
“Our Father” again refers to Israel, as is seen by the passage in which the prayer occurs (vss. 7–8, 6:32). Notice that “Our Father” is never given to a Gentile to pray, nor does Christ anywhere in the Sermon on the Mount even intimate that God is “Father” to anyone but an Israelite!
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See to me this is taking it way too far....What are we supposed to call him then? Are we not adopted in?
 
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throughfaith

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#54
Aug 4, 2020
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#54
1ofthem said:
See to me this is taking it way too far....What are we supposed to call him then? Are we not adopted in?
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' Father ' Abba Father ' ect . And i don't believe the bible teaches we are ' adopted in ' . Thats western thinking. Western terminology is when a Child is adopted into a family. No we become a son through the new birth . John 1.12 .
THE adoption is Rom 8.23.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

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#55
Mar 30, 2016
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#55
@throughfaith What I don't understand is what is wrong with the sermon on the Mount teachings that Christians shouldn't follow them?

Is it ok for us to slap someone if they slap us or should we turn the other check?

Is it ok not to follow Jesus teaching and do any of those things he said not to do in the sermon on the Mount?

You don't think the Holy Ghost still teaches us not to do those things nowadays?
 
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throughfaith

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#56
Aug 4, 2020
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#56
1ofthem said:
@throughfaith What I don't understand is what is wrong with the sermon on the Mount teachings that Christians shouldn't follow them?

Is it ok for us to slap someone if they slap us or should we turn the other check?

Is it ok not to follow Jesus teaching and do any of those things he said not to do in the sermon on the Mount?

You don't think the Holy Ghost still teaches us not to do those things nowadays?
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What I don't understand is what is wrong with the sermon on the Mount teachings that Christians shouldn't follow them?// Because there were no ' Christians in the audience. only Israel . Our instructions are in Paul's letters to the Body of Christ . Do we just ignore Mathew 5and 6 ? No not at all . We need to understand it .

//Is it ok for us to slap someone if they slap us or should we turn the other check?// Under Jesus s rule on the throne this makes perfect sense. Let Jesus deal with justice. But Today ? Not unless you just want to be beaten to a pulp and have your wife and children killed.

//Is it ok not to follow Jesus teaching and do any of those things he said not to do in the sermon on the Mount?//
We follow who his teachings are for and when. We should do this with all scripture.

//You don't think the Holy Ghost still teaches us not to do those things nowadays?//
In scripture yes . He will not contradict scripture. We have the responsibility to correctly understand who the Author is speaking to , when ? why ? and what ? ect .
 
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throughfaith

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#57
Aug 4, 2020
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#57
1ofthem said:
@throughfaith What I don't understand is what is wrong with the sermon on the Mount teachings that Christians shouldn't follow them?

Is it ok for us to slap someone if they slap us or should we turn the other check?

Is it ok not to follow Jesus teaching and do any of those things he said not to do in the sermon on the Mount?

You don't think the Holy Ghost still teaches us not to do those things nowadays?
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In the sermon on the mount . There is no blood atonement by Jesus, there is no Cross , no resurrection ,for our sins . There's no giving of the Holy Spirit ..There is no Pentecost, no apostle to the Gentiles . No circumcision made without hands. There's no sealing of the Holy Spirit . No regeneration ect .
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

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#58
Mar 30, 2016
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#58
throughfaith said:
' Father ' Abba Father ' ect . And i don't believe the bible teaches we are ' adopted in ' . Thats western thinking. Western terminology is when a Child is adopted into a family. No we become a son through the new birth . John 1.12 .
THE adoption is Rom 8.23.
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Well what kind of son do we become after the new birth then, a second rate one? Are we bastards that don't have to listen and obey?

Hebrew 12:8
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
 
phil36

phil36

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#59
Feb 12, 2009
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#59
throughfaith said:
In the sermon on the mount . There is no blood atonement by Jesus, there is no Cross , no resurrection ,for our sins . There's no giving of the Holy Spirit ..There is no Pentecost, no apostle to the Gentiles . No circumcision made without hands. There's no sealing of the Holy Spirit . No regeneration ect .
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There's plenty of wisdom from God.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

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#60
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#60
throughfaith said:
In the sermon on the mount . There is no blood atonement by Jesus, there is no Cross , no resurrection ,for our sins . There's no giving of the Holy Spirit ..There is no Pentecost, no apostle to the Gentiles . No circumcision made without hands. There's no sealing of the Holy Spirit . No regeneration ect .
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Seems like it would be a whole lot easier for us to follow his teachings then. Seeing that we have forgiveness of sins through his blood, he regenerated and made us new creatures, and he sent the Holy Ghost to lead and guide us.
 
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