Lord , Teach us To pray !
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it was mentioned in the law as an afterthought of sorts it was not the same as forgive and be forgiven at all . That’s the law of liberty that saves us when we have to give account for our deeds
no ones perfect and we all have to face Jesus on jidgement day not Moses but Jesus. The Israelites covenant said to be forgiving to their brethren in the camp , but also more clear and more prevalent in the law was sin and death. In order to purge the evil from among them
So you have these incredibly contrary points in the law like this
A newlywed whom is found to have had pre marital sex
“But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”
Deuteronomy 22:20-
that is the laws nature right there they were told to be fogging and not bear grudges but this was independent of sin among the people.
There’s nothing in the law that shows the judgement of Christ. “ forgive and you shall be forgiven , do not judge and you will not be judged , do not condemn and you will not be condemned “
those things aren’t in Moses law , thier standard of judgement was according to Moses mediation because Moses is who put his life on the line for them when God had decided to destroy all of them and begin again with Moses Moses interceded for them so his words became thier jidgement
Christ is who has interceded for us and put his life on the line for us so his judgements are ours redeemed in his blood and not Moses judgements Moses will judge those under the covenant made through him
“Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.”
John 5:45 KJV
the harsh reality is that no one judged by Moses is going to have eternal life because his covenant never made that offer , and everyone ever under his covenant died including Moses.
but those who come to this judgement believing his word will have wternal
Life
“Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:9-11 KJV
when we have to give that account and receive our die reward for the good and the bad we have the law of liberty there because we believe and are merciful to others , because we forgive others , because we don’t condemn others we will have that law working for our forgiveness our judgement according to the mercy of Christ rather than the in yielding law of Moses over sin and death
Every believer in Christ should live as if they will be judged according to the law of liberty and not Moses law
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:10, 12-13
how merciful we are is going to factor into noir judgement in Christ
no ones perfect and we all have to face Jesus on jidgement day not Moses but Jesus. The Israelites covenant said to be forgiving to their brethren in the camp , but also more clear and more prevalent in the law was sin and death. In order to purge the evil from among them
So you have these incredibly contrary points in the law like this
A newlywed whom is found to have had pre marital sex
“But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”
Deuteronomy 22:20-
that is the laws nature right there they were told to be fogging and not bear grudges but this was independent of sin among the people.
There’s nothing in the law that shows the judgement of Christ. “ forgive and you shall be forgiven , do not judge and you will not be judged , do not condemn and you will not be condemned “
those things aren’t in Moses law , thier standard of judgement was according to Moses mediation because Moses is who put his life on the line for them when God had decided to destroy all of them and begin again with Moses Moses interceded for them so his words became thier jidgement
Christ is who has interceded for us and put his life on the line for us so his judgements are ours redeemed in his blood and not Moses judgements Moses will judge those under the covenant made through him
“Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.”
John 5:45 KJV
the harsh reality is that no one judged by Moses is going to have eternal life because his covenant never made that offer , and everyone ever under his covenant died including Moses.
but those who come to this judgement believing his word will have wternal
Life
“Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:9-11 KJV
when we have to give that account and receive our die reward for the good and the bad we have the law of liberty there because we believe and are merciful to others , because we forgive others , because we don’t condemn others we will have that law working for our forgiveness our judgement according to the mercy of Christ rather than the in yielding law of Moses over sin and death
Every believer in Christ should live as if they will be judged according to the law of liberty and not Moses law
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:10, 12-13
how merciful we are is going to factor into noir judgement in Christ
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right exactly it’s actually contrary in almost every way. They were instructed to not show pity on sinners
“Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.”
Deuteronomy 25:12
(for grabbing a mans privates during a fight )
“And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:20-
equal revenge on the sinner without pity
that’s why the law couldn’t save sinners and the gospel does and why it was so tough for Israel to accept the gospel they were conditioned by the law to be contrary to christs doctrine so they would reject him and he would be sent to all nations and abrahams promise would come to pass for all people of the earth
“And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
...So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
....When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
John 8:2-5, 7, 10-13
they had trusted in Moses law they thought it was an image of Gods nature but it isn’t Christ shows God to us in his unveiled glory and majesty the truth of our God can only be seen in Christ Jesus who can only be seen when we believe the gospel of Gods son Jesus Christ which has been foretold for ages by the prophets and witnesses for two thousand years nearly now by the apostles and disciples of Christ
he is the truth of our God made plain and known To us
“Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.”
Deuteronomy 25:12
(for grabbing a mans privates during a fight )
“And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:20-
equal revenge on the sinner without pity
that’s why the law couldn’t save sinners and the gospel does and why it was so tough for Israel to accept the gospel they were conditioned by the law to be contrary to christs doctrine so they would reject him and he would be sent to all nations and abrahams promise would come to pass for all people of the earth
“And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
...So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
....When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
John 8:2-5, 7, 10-13
they had trusted in Moses law they thought it was an image of Gods nature but it isn’t Christ shows God to us in his unveiled glory and majesty the truth of our God can only be seen in Christ Jesus who can only be seen when we believe the gospel of Gods son Jesus Christ which has been foretold for ages by the prophets and witnesses for two thousand years nearly now by the apostles and disciples of Christ
he is the truth of our God made plain and known To us
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false doctrine brother that teaches people those ideas just like the serpent did in Eden God told the truth Satan came after and lied.
God said “ you are free to eat of any tree in the garden but you must not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for you will surely die when you do “
then Satan said “ did God really say that ? Surely you will not die or will make you as gods ?
false doctrine is why people turn away from truth . what is really prevelent now is the grace revolution . They have taught people that Jesus teachings don’t apply to them and only the term grace applies to them so you have this false doctrine that we were warned about
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4 KJV
people teach that Paul is our authority and then they exclude everything Paul taught about repentance being necessary and continuing on in sin excluding one from the kingdom and wuote only select verses that support thoer idea
they make the term grace higher than Jesus name and word and authority over all creation . To do this they need to convince people jesusndpctrine isn’t for you only grace is for you not repentance , nor believing the gospel he said to believe but to just praise the term grace and say we’re all saved
If we embrace the gospel as is in your heart to do , and believe and hope in those thkngs then we will find Gods actual grave that saves because it comes in step with the teachings about repentance and right lovong while we wait for the lords return
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
Titus 2:11-14 KJV
you have in this world a large church believing in a doctrine that eliminates the need for belief of the gospel and they call it the glorious grace of Christ , a central need for their doctrine is that Jesus teachings are the re preaching of Moses law and this not for you anything that requires anything of you is not grace ect....
they do this based on the dictionary definition of grace and translate it “ if you have to do anything to be saved it’s not grace”
It’s one of the reasons I started looking into scripture for myself they are very convincing but it because many don’t actually look at the sections of scripture they quote a verse from and see how distorted it actually is
I was beginning to believe some of those things but then scripture demolished that thankfully on my mind . When I realized what was going on I lost a lot of trust in just attending a church and assuming the pastor was a man of God I think slot of folks do that and then they end up following a man rather than God
God said “ you are free to eat of any tree in the garden but you must not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for you will surely die when you do “
then Satan said “ did God really say that ? Surely you will not die or will make you as gods ?
false doctrine is why people turn away from truth . what is really prevelent now is the grace revolution . They have taught people that Jesus teachings don’t apply to them and only the term grace applies to them so you have this false doctrine that we were warned about
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 1:4 KJV
people teach that Paul is our authority and then they exclude everything Paul taught about repentance being necessary and continuing on in sin excluding one from the kingdom and wuote only select verses that support thoer idea
they make the term grace higher than Jesus name and word and authority over all creation . To do this they need to convince people jesusndpctrine isn’t for you only grace is for you not repentance , nor believing the gospel he said to believe but to just praise the term grace and say we’re all saved
If we embrace the gospel as is in your heart to do , and believe and hope in those thkngs then we will find Gods actual grave that saves because it comes in step with the teachings about repentance and right lovong while we wait for the lords return
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
Titus 2:11-14 KJV
you have in this world a large church believing in a doctrine that eliminates the need for belief of the gospel and they call it the glorious grace of Christ , a central need for their doctrine is that Jesus teachings are the re preaching of Moses law and this not for you anything that requires anything of you is not grace ect....
they do this based on the dictionary definition of grace and translate it “ if you have to do anything to be saved it’s not grace”
It’s one of the reasons I started looking into scripture for myself they are very convincing but it because many don’t actually look at the sections of scripture they quote a verse from and see how distorted it actually is
I was beginning to believe some of those things but then scripture demolished that thankfully on my mind . When I realized what was going on I lost a lot of trust in just attending a church and assuming the pastor was a man of God I think slot of folks do that and then they end up following a man rather than God
In order to understand the spiritual world scripture tells us about, we need to know it is from an eternal God, a Holy God, a God that is not about our kind of marking time but one who is "I am". When we get so caught up in our kind of time so God's eternal law is about new testament and old testament, under the sacrificial system that was only a shadow of Christ and Christ crucified, then we garble up what the Lord is teaching us.
The eternal teaching of the law is that breaking the law kills, and God wants us to live. Our prayers are about living eternally with the Lord.
The old testament Lord's Prayer that Christ told us about was written at least 400 years before Christ, when Jews returned from Babylon and were trying to remember all about the Lord that they had forgotten in Babylon. Christ condensed it.
The eternal teaching of the law is that breaking the law kills, and God wants us to live. Our prayers are about living eternally with the Lord.
The old testament Lord's Prayer that Christ told us about was written at least 400 years before Christ, when Jews returned from Babylon and were trying to remember all about the Lord that they had forgotten in Babylon. Christ condensed it.
he fulfilled the law by dying for sinners who were condemned by it , when we are baptized into his death it concludes the laws authority over the baptized Christian they have died according to the law and are no longer subject under the law of sinners . Moses law doesn’t apply to a Christian in any way as much as it applies to an adulterer who was stoned under the law at that point the law had no more power over the sinner just thier death
so when we are baptized this occurs
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
Romans 6:3-4, 6-7
“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;
that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
Romans 7:1, 4-6 KJV
when we are baptized it’s like we does for our sins with Jesus. What this means is we are like an adulterer who was stoned and killed for our sins under the law . The law never reaches any further than that point for a sinner they sinned and they died.
Christ offers payment for our sins if we repent and believe the gospel which is what produces that fruit Paul’s talking about not the law we’re dead or it has no authority over baptized Christians . Only before we died with Christ at that point we now have the word of the eternal
Kingdom
even today to worship God through the law has become a curse that only baptism into christs death can remove
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
Galatians 3:10-11, 13
that reference is a quote from the law about sinners
“And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God
that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
Deuteronomy 21:22-23
the law of Moses is not for us in Christ but to drive sinners to him and be redeemed from the curse of the law the law produces sin in sinners it’s a provocation of thoer nature tell a rebel not to rebel and they will by nature “ the motions of sins were by the law “
but if you come to a sinner and say “ I’ll die for your sins according to the law , you just repent and believe my word and be saved and have eternal Life as you part this world rather than being cursed and put to death for your sins I’ll take that on me , you simply repent and believe me
so when we are baptized this occurs
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
Romans 6:3-4, 6-7
“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;
that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
Romans 7:1, 4-6 KJV
when we are baptized it’s like we does for our sins with Jesus. What this means is we are like an adulterer who was stoned and killed for our sins under the law . The law never reaches any further than that point for a sinner they sinned and they died.
Christ offers payment for our sins if we repent and believe the gospel which is what produces that fruit Paul’s talking about not the law we’re dead or it has no authority over baptized Christians . Only before we died with Christ at that point we now have the word of the eternal
Kingdom
even today to worship God through the law has become a curse that only baptism into christs death can remove
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
Galatians 3:10-11, 13
that reference is a quote from the law about sinners
“And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God
that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”Deuteronomy 21:22-23
the law of Moses is not for us in Christ but to drive sinners to him and be redeemed from the curse of the law the law produces sin in sinners it’s a provocation of thoer nature tell a rebel not to rebel and they will by nature “ the motions of sins were by the law “
but if you come to a sinner and say “ I’ll die for your sins according to the law , you just repent and believe my word and be saved and have eternal Life as you part this world rather than being cursed and put to death for your sins I’ll take that on me , you simply repent and believe me
Matthew 18:19-20
19 “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
Not sure having read your response to @phil36 why you quoted the above verses.
These verses deal with church discipline.
19 “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
Not sure having read your response to @phil36 why you quoted the above verses.
These verses deal with church discipline.
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Just another verse about prayer not sure the subject matters the point is about prayer which i assumed is what his post was i dont think its specific that must regard that matter but agreement among believers in his name applies to all prayer two in agreement before god is a good thing. Not sure why you chimed in, but hope i answerec your question. You might take it as only regarding disciplin, i see it as regarding anything we ask in his name . Not sure its contoversial. God bless
naw christ wasnt teaching moses law at all. What he preached was the kingdom of god. John the baptist was the point the law stopped bieng preached and the gospel of the kingdom began bieng preached . The gospel i what saves us from the condemnation of the law on every transgressor. Like how he saved the adulterous woman in john 8 the law condemned her to death, jesus saved her apart from the law that would kill her. Iagree that the laws teaching is sin and death thats what wrre bieng saved from
Prayer is very important and I say the subject matters.
If we look at subject matter then it is very important and it does matter.
We are looking at the words Jesus said and the advice and the intent to apply correctly.
Any reason why I cannot chime in? Why do you think I couldn't?
Possibly expand for me regarding "Anything we ask in his name" when 2 or 3 are gathered.
I was addressing the verses you quoted based on what Jesus was talking about, and I really feel we need to present the reality of what Jesus was staying.
Yes prayer is very important but the prayers we offer up are not to be according to our will but Gods.
May your will be done on earth as it is heaven.
God bless
If we look at subject matter then it is very important and it does matter.
We are looking at the words Jesus said and the advice and the intent to apply correctly.
Any reason why I cannot chime in? Why do you think I couldn't?
Possibly expand for me regarding "Anything we ask in his name" when 2 or 3 are gathered.
I was addressing the verses you quoted based on what Jesus was talking about, and I really feel we need to present the reality of what Jesus was staying.
Yes prayer is very important but the prayers we offer up are not to be according to our will but Gods.
May your will be done on earth as it is heaven.
God bless