Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

[posthuman]

Aren't there about 10 or 11 gospels anyway ? Not Just 2 .

goodness!

i hope we believe the right one

 

[Guojing]

That's correct, I knew what you where trying to say

Yep, in forums, you cannot control how others respond to your posts

 

[Evmur]

he preached repentance and faith in God preached the same gospel and his teachings should never be thrown out nor should anyone throw out the gospel and follow Paul as messiah

Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom of God including repentance and faith the same message tinker and gentile

“And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20:20-21, 25‬ ‭

Paul actually taught more about sin it’s consequences and repentance than Moses law did.

while we take a statement like “ grace” and “ election “ out of the scripture it exists in its easily distorted Paul’s election includes this instruction

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;

Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul preached about inheriting the kingdom but also warned of the consequences of sin . To show this is a constant in his doctrine

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s message is urgent about repenting from sin and walking in the spirit with the lord

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those are a few examples of Paul’s doctrine other than the catch phrases we hear like “ saved by grace” election isn’t the end , faith is the end

Did you just say "while we take a statement like "grace" and "election" out of scripture ...." ?

The greatest aids and tools to walking in the Spirit and fulfilling not the lusts of the flesh are to know thoroughly well the doctrines of grace and election and predestination. When these doctrines are taken away what you have left is the human will in place of God's will which is contained in those doctrines.

The devil will win every battle we fight with our human will. We win when we understand that God has saved us by grace alone through faith which is a gift and that He always intended to and chose [elected] us for this purpose.

 

[phil36]

goodness!

i hope we believe the right one

You mean to say you don't believe in throughfaiths 10 or 11 gospels

(Mind you he's not to sure himself, is it ten is eleven..... )

 

[Evmur]

Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)
Grace is a ubiquitous reality, not a selective force. (Tit. 2:11-13)
Grace is just fine on it’s own as it’s found in scripture. Any modifier other than “free,” such as “sovereign,” “irresistible,” or “prevenient” indicate someone is either confused or attempting to confuse. (Rom. 3:24; 5:15; Jn. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-13)

"You have not selected Christ, He has selected you...." He has chosen you that you might bear good fruit.

 

[Evmur]

I agree with you on that. I've literally heard some Christians say " oh I don't believe in predestinated and Election and all the stuff " The words predestined and election are in the bible so that's a daft thing to say . But I don't believe anyones 'preaching 'on election or predestination. They are words . They are words that have meaning ,in context. There like other ' words ' . What has happened is we have years of ' theology and baggage placed on to words . Like the ' Doctrine of election ' . Most of what is taught is planted in the unsuspecting mind before hes figured out his bible. So that when he comes across the word ' predestined ' that buzz word is like a trigger . Like a soviet spy thats been hypnotised and when someone says the trigger word ,he's activated . lol . This similar thing happens if you have been round any preaching, teaching and sermons long enough. ' Election ' Ah ha ( trigger ) This means ' i was chosen before the foundation...." 'Predestined ' ( trigger) " I was chosen to be saved before......and on and on .
This of course started with Augustine teaching on it .
The bible however
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)
Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
There are 2 callings: Gospel and vocational, not inward or outward or effectual or ineffectual, etc… (2 Thess. 2:14; Eph. 4:1; Rom. 8:28; 2 Cor. 5:20)
Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)
Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)
Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

What you say about predestination and election being a trigger and all I say about human freewill, talk about soviet brainwash, you can't read a single article about the gospel before sooner or later you are confronted by the concept of "our own freewill"

And here's the killer

The bible doesn't say a peep about human freewill, zippo.

But I DO agree with you 100% that predestiny and election in the bible is not about salvation but being chosen to be conformed to Christ ... that I am glad to agree with you on.

 

[throughfaith]

"You have not selected Christ, He has selected you...." He has chosen you that you might bear good fruit.

Are you eluding to the verse which is about the Apostles being chosen ? Every time we see ' chosen ' or ' elect ' its in time and for a purpose / service . Yes even the Calvinists favourite proof text of Eph 1 .4

 

[Evmur]

Are you eluding to the verse which is about the Apostles being chosen ?

Everything written in John's gospel is for us ... don't you want to bear fruit and that your fruit should be good and your joy full? don't you want to abide in Him and He abide in you?

 

[throughfaith]

What you say about predestination and election being a trigger and all I say about human freewill, talk about soviet brainwash, you can't read a single article about the gospel before sooner or later you are confronted by the concept of "our own freewill"

And here's the killer

The bible doesn't say a peep about human freewill, zippo.

But I DO agree with you 100% that predestiny and election in the bible is not about salvation but being chosen to be conformed to Christ ... that I am glad to agree with you on.

Thats why it's a bad idea to start with the axiom of ' free will ' or ' sovereignty ' ect . Thats a philosophical starting assumption .

 

[throughfaith]

Everything written in John's gospel is for us ... don't you want to bear fruit and that your fruit should be good and your joy full? don't you want to abide in Him and He abide in you?

I was referring to wear the diciples were ' chosen ' and one of them a devil .

 

[throughfaith]

Everything written in John's gospel is for us ... don't you want to bear fruit and that your fruit should be good and your joy full? don't you want to abide in Him and He abide in you?

I want to discern who Jesus is speaking to ,when and why ?

 

[Absolutely]

Yes the Kingdom OF God. . I said THE kingdom ,and I gave the scriptures . Read them .

Yes the kingdom.

Who's kingdom??
No brainer

Your deal and books are busted

 

[Absolutely]

I want to discern who Jesus is speaking to ,when and why ?

Ah
So things like " born again" , "mansions in heaven" , " the cross" ," resurrection", "gospel of the kingdom that Paul preached", " the gentile saved", etc....are not for the believers of today?????

Interesting mix you believe?

 

[throughfaith]

Yes the kingdom.

Who's kingdom??
No brainer

Your deal and books are busted

I see placement of words in their context is not important to you. You just need the catch phrases i see .

 

[Absolutely]

The ' good news ' cannot be ' the bible ' . There is bad news in it . There's tragedy , There's death , there's sadness. And the healings were a sign to Israel to validate the message. The problem with teaching wide sweeping generalisations, it misses the details. It misses the unfolding ( non static ) revelation of God through the scriptures. The circumcision of the spirit, for example is only available after the resurrection .

No
Grace is found exceedingly in the OT.

Your view has been corrupted.

An atheistst once said on this forum " I won't serve a God that kills babies and puppies"
(Referring to the flood)

The Holy Spirit kicks in.

" Noah looking down on millions of bodies from the ark....' Dear Lord, the horrors of sin"

The entire bible is written to them that love God.
Every page alive.
Gods obsession with man.
His unbelievable love for his people.
The great dellimma...Holy God/ sinful man.

The OT laying all the groundwork and beautifully illustrating the answer. One person, Gods son, Jesus.

The OT is quite invaluable. Quite a blessing, quite a revelatory into the apex of God/ man.......Jesus occupying davids throne and as acts puts it " the restitution of all things"

Minimizing Jesus and his book ( the bible) is a really really bad idea sir.

 

[throughfaith]

Ah
So things like " born again" , "mansions in heaven" , " the cross" ," resurrection", "gospel of the kingdom that Paul preached", " the gentile saved", etc....are not for the believers of today?????

Interesting mix you believe?

Where is Paul preaching the Kingdom of heaven and the 'Gospel of the kingdom '?

 

[throughfaith]

No
Grace is found exceedingly in the OT.

Your view has been corrupted.

An atheistst once said on this forum " I won't serve a God that kills babies and puppies"
(Referring to the flood)

The Holy Spirit kicks in.

" Noah looking down on millions of bodies from the ark....' Dear Lord, the horrors of sin"

The entire bible is written to them that love God.
Every page alive.
Gods obsession with man.
His unbelievable love for his people.
The great dellimma...Holy God/ sinful man.

The OT laying all the groundwork and beautifully illustrating the answer. One person, Gods son, Jesus.

The OT is quite invaluable. Quite a blessing, quite a revelatory into the apex of God/ man.......Jesus occupying davids throne and as acts puts it " the restitution of all things"

Minimizing Jesus and his book ( the bible) is a really really bad idea sir.

You minimise it when you read it like a glossary . I want to really know what God said. To whom . Why . When ect . My understanding isn't reliant on having to track to a system that I've already been fed . Sir .

 

[throughfaith]

No
Grace is found exceedingly in the OT.

Your view has been corrupted.

An atheistst once said on this forum " I won't serve a God that kills babies and puppies"
(Referring to the flood)

The Holy Spirit kicks in.

" Noah looking down on millions of bodies from the ark....' Dear Lord, the horrors of sin"

The entire bible is written to them that love God.
Every page alive.
Gods obsession with man.
His unbelievable love for his people.
The great dellimma...Holy God/ sinful man.

The OT laying all the groundwork and beautifully illustrating the answer. One person, Gods son, Jesus.

The OT is quite invaluable. Quite a blessing, quite a revelatory into the apex of God/ man.......Jesus occupying davids throne and as acts puts it " the restitution of all things"

Minimizing Jesus and his book ( the bible) is a really really bad idea sir.

Where have I said 'grace is not found 'in the Ot ?

 

[Absolutely]

I see placement of words in their context is not important to you. You just need the catch phrases i see .

Kingdom

So tell me who is the king?

Who are his populace?

The kingdom of God
The kingdom of heaven
The gospel of the kingdom.

All the same thing.

You guys invented the contraversy.
Actually have the bible and Jesus at odds with Paul.

 

[throughfaith]

Where have I said 'grace is not found 'in the Ot ?

Isn't it one thing for babies to die and end up in the lake of fire and another to ' be with God ' , BECAUSE of the wickedness of man corrupting them . I see mercy and grace in that.