Where do we agree?

[HillsboroMom]

Why didn't you provide any conservative/libertarian solutions in your poll? I support none of these. The best government program is no government program.

I listed all the options that had significant bi-partisan support, and offered others to option to add their own.

The option to provide every child with a bond is a conservative solution, as is the expansion of the EITC, since it only rewards those who work.

As for libertarian options, those just don't enjoy bi-partisan support. There aren't enough people in this country who agree with you. Though, as I said, you were still welcome to add options to the poll yourself.

The fact that you didn't kind of speaks volumes about why Libertarianism doesn't work.

 

[inukubo]

The fact that you completely excluded actual philosophical alternatives to statism speaks louder.

Handing out goodies paid for by someone else without their consent is not a "conservative solution." It is theft. The problem with your "bipartisan" solutions is that most Republicans are not conservative and certainly not individualists. They are statists lite.

The problem with Libertarianism is not that it doesn't work, but that most people are addicted to the short-term high of endless government handouts and not thinking about what is best for society and themselves in the long term.

 

[HillsboroMom]

The fact that you completely excluded actual philosophical alternatives to statism speaks louder.

Once again -- and for the 3rd or 4th time -- those were not my ideas, they were ideas that were put forth by others that had bi-partisan support.

The problem with Libertarianism is not that it doesn't work, but that most people are addicted to the short-term high of endless government handouts and not thinking about what is best for society and themselves in the long term.

I very clearly invited others to submit their ideas. You chose NOT to provide your own solutions, and instead complained that ideas that you liked were not offered for you by someone else.

"Wahhhh I can't think for myself. You didn't think for me and come up with something that allowed me to think for myself. Wahhh"

And you call us snowflakes. Face-palm.

Libertarians say that the government shouldn't provide things for people, but that people should provide it themselves. But when given the opportunity to make that happen, they complain that they aren't able to do that because "mean ol' government" doesn't allow it. Just like you refused to provide any solutions and instead complained that I didn't provide solutions for you.

It's such a perfect example of the idiocy of Libertarianism. I couldn't have come up with a better parable if I had tried.

I thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

 

[DWR]

Nothing is free. Anything a person receives from any government is paid for by some one.
And in most cases, any government program will spent most of the money it receives on overpaid and under productive bureaucrats.
I have never seen a federal program that really did anything but benefit those who were employees of the government. I know there are a few exceptions but very few.

Food stamps should be limited to buying only real food that must be prepared and cooked at home. No sodas, chips, candy, snacks, cookies, cakes, pies, frozen pizza or diners, or stuff that can just be put in microwave. Meat products should be limited to ground beef and chicken.

No one should receive more tax back than they paid in.

All educational programs should be controlled and funded by state and local people only.

No one should receive government check just for being alive. No work, no pay.
Only those who worked and paid taxes should receive SS checks.
Disabilities should be re-examined on a yearly basis and like SS, only those who have worked and paid taxes should qualify.

Any and all minimum wage rates should be voted on by each state's voters.
Arkansas voters decided that $11 per hour was fair and reasonable considering the cost of living and the ability of local business to pay.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I have never seen a federal program that really did anything but benefit those who were employees of the government. I know there are a few exceptions but very few.

Which shows that the government and federal employees are PARASITIC. This latest COVID-19 spending obscenity will given minor relief, since only 9% of it is meant for that purpose. But the parasites will receive 91% of the free gifts given by Democrats to themselves and their cronies.

While it is far too late to fix anything in D.C. now, what should have happened right from the beginning is that the power to make spending decisions should never have been in the hands of irresponsible politicians. They should have been allowed to make recommendations only. But the final decisions would be made by a Special Commission charged with maintaining balanced budgets and no deficit spending. Which means that 100% of the pork would remain unspent and taxes would drop by 90%.

 

[shittim]

agreed brother, the survey could use a None of the Above selection.

 

[HillsboroMom]

And in most cases, any government program will spent most of the money it receives on overpaid and under productive bureaucrats.

Do you have any evidence to support that?

In fact, most of what I've seen shows that government programs run significantly MORE effectively, and on LESS money, than their private counterparts. But if you have statistics that show the opposite to be true, I would be very interested to see them.

I have never seen a federal program that really did anything but benefit those who were employees of the government. I know there are a few exceptions but very few.

While I have never seen a federal program that actually benefited the employee, beyond what any employee would get (that is, fair compensation and benefits).

Here are a few examples of government programs in which 90% or more of the money spent is spent directly on program support rather than salaries:

• Medicaid
• School meals
• Earned Income Tax Credit
• SNAP (food stamps)

Find me a non-government program that has more than 90% of its costs being non-salary and non-overhead. Just one. This is phenomenal when compared to non-government agencies.

All educational programs should be controlled and funded by state and local people only.

I actually agree with you here. I would rather see education decisions made by teachers, not by politicians.

No one should receive government check just for being alive. No work, no pay.

So you're okay with infants and children dying by the thousands? Huh. I would have thought you would be more pro-life, but whatever. Personally, I have a problem with letting people die of starvation, but I guess you don't think Jesus was being serious when he said we should feed the hungry.

Disabilities should be re-examined on a yearly basis

They are.

Any and all minimum wage rates should be voted on by each state's voters.

Actually, I don't think there should be a federal "minimum wage" at all. In countries where there is no minimum wage, prevailing wages are significantly higher than they are here. I would like to see the US adopt a system like most European countries have, where every industry establishes pay scales for that industry. I also like the Japanese system where there is no "minimum wage" but there is a maximum wage." For example, in any given business, the highest-paid upper management person can't make more than 10x the lowest-paid employee. So, if you want to pay the janitor $10/hour, that's fine, but that means your CEO can't make more than $100/hour, which is about $200k/year. If the CEO wants a higher salary, then they have to give all the lowest-paid employees a raise.

This is a good compromise, because small mom-and-pop shops -- where the owners often don't even draw a wage at all, and all the employees earn about the same -- will be able to stay in business, but it keeps the big Walmarts of the world from taking advantage of their employees.

 

[shittim]

Federal Government was never intended to be a social welfare program
FDR started the downhill spiral

 

[HillsboroMom]

agreed brother, the survey could use a None of the Above selection.

The survey HAD a "none of the above" selection built in.

The fact that people were more interested in whining and complaining rather than coming up with creative alternatives -- which was the whole point -- is both sad and telling.

 

[shittim]

a job is the solution.

 

[HillsboroMom]

a job is the solution.

If you're under 16, then what?

2/3 of the people on government support are under 16 or over 65. Clearly "get a job" is NOT the solution.

 

[DWR]

Do you have any evidence to support that?

In fact, most of what I've seen shows that government programs run significantly MORE effectively, and on LESS money, than their private counterparts. But if you have statistics that show the opposite to be true, I would be very interested to see them.


While I have never seen a federal program that actually benefited the employee, beyond what any employee would get (that is, fair compensation and benefits).

Here are a few examples of government programs in which 90% or more of the money spent is spent directly on program support rather than salaries:

• Medicaid
• School meals
• Earned Income Tax Credit
• SNAP (food stamps)

Find me a non-government program that has more than 90% of its costs being non-salary and non-overhead. Just one. This is phenomenal when compared to non-government agencies.


I actually agree with you here. I would rather see education decisions made by teachers, not by politicians.


So you're okay with infants and children dying by the thousands? Huh. I would have thought you would be more pro-life, but whatever. Personally, I have a problem with letting people die of starvation, but I guess you don't think Jesus was being serious when he said we should feed the hungry.


They are.


Actually, I don't think there should be a federal "minimum wage" at all. In countries where there is no minimum wage, prevailing wages are significantly higher than they are here. I would like to see the US adopt a system like most European countries have, where every industry establishes pay scales for that industry. I also like the Japanese system where there is no "minimum wage" but there is a maximum wage." For example, in any given business, the highest-paid upper management person can't make more than 10x the lowest-paid employee. So, if you want to pay the janitor $10/hour, that's fine, but that means your CEO can't make more than $100/hour, which is about $200k/year. If the CEO wants a higher salary, then they have to give all the lowest-paid employees a raise.

This is a good compromise, because small mom-and-pop shops -- where the owners often don't even draw a wage at all, and all the employees earn about the same -- will be able to stay in business, but it keeps the big Walmarts of the world from taking advantage of their employees.

You make a lot of claims that you offer no proof of fact.
Where is your proof of the great efficient of government programs? And the governments say so is not evidence.

Have you never been in government office seeking service and not seen just how slow these people work and how their attitude stinks? And they are paid much more that they produce and get great benefits, job security, and retirements. There is no incentive to produce at a higher level.
Those programs you named are a joke fill with waste.
I know people who should qualify and do not and those who qualify when they should not.
The biggest waste is in the food stamp program.
Have you never seen the trash these people often use the food stamps for instead of real food.
And every cart will have tobacco and or beer that must be paid for with cash.

I know two people on disability, on for 10 years and one for 25 years and neither has ever been called to prove they are still disabled.

 

[DWR]

• 
  
• 
  

So you're okay with infants and children dying by the thousands? Huh. I would have thought you would be more pro-life, but whatever. Personally, I have a problem with letting people die of starvation, but I guess you don't think Jesus was being serious when he said we should feed the hungry.



.

Statements like this shows us whom you really are--- A left wing liberal.
This is what they always say to all who disagree with their plan for the government to take total control of every ones life.

No one have ever stated nor indicated that we are going to allow those who can not help themselves to suffer and die.
If you really believe this you are just stupid and not worthy of my time.

 

[HillsboroMom]

You make a lot of claims that you offer no proof of fact.
Where is your proof of the great efficient of government programs? And the governments say so is not evidence.

(1) Some government programs are not so efficient. Some are.

(2) I provided evidence of some in my previous post. If you didn't bother looking at that, why should I post more?

Have you never been in government office seeking service and not seen just how slow these people work and how their attitude stinks?

I have noticed this in some government offices. I have also noticed this in many non-government offices. I have also noticed excellent service from some government offices. You know why? Because government offices are employed by HUMANS, some of whom are assholes and some of whom are great people. Kind of like every other business.

And they are paid much more that they produce and get great benefits, job security, and retirements. There is no incentive to produce at a higher level.

They don't get paid "much more." There is evidence to support both sides of the argument:

https://www.federaltimes.com/manage...led,government's ability to serve taxpayers.”

https://careertrend.com/pay-average-government-employee-vs-private-sector-employee-41973.html

Basically, in some industries government workers earn more than workers in the private industry, and in some industries, they earn less. If you can't think of any examples, here are some:

Professors of private universities earn more than professors at state universities.

VA benefits vs. any health plan. Need I say more?

Those programs you named are a joke fill with waste.

Which is what someone says when they can't come up with a reasonable counter to an argument.

I know people who should qualify and do not and those who qualify when they should not.

So do I. So?

The biggest waste is in the food stamp program.

Evidence, please?

Have you never seen the trash these people often use the food stamps for instead of real food.

Have you seen the trash non-food-stamp people use instead of real food?

And every cart will have tobacco and or beer that must be paid for with cash.

Ummm, yes, they pay for those things with cash, because you can't use food stamps to buy those things. Which is exactly the point. How is that a point FOR your argument? It is a point for my argument: people can't use food stamps to buy alcohol or tobacco. You just showed that you are aware of that, thereby shooting your own argument to smitherines.

I know two people on disability, on for 10 years and one for 25 years and neither has ever been called to prove they are still disabled.

Have you been monitoring their doctors' offices for 10 and 25 years?

And if so, should I notify the FBI that you are monitoring doctors' offices without a license?

They don't call the individuals to confirm disability. That would be silly.
"Hello, this is the SSI, are you still disabled?"
"Yes."
"Okay, thanks."

Of course people will self-report that they're still disabled. Duh.

They contact the DOCTORS who oversee the disabilities. And if there aren't any doctors who have been seeing them, then they lose the disability.

I suppose now you're going to say that doctors lie on behalf of their patients. What would be their motivation? People on disability barely get enough to live on, let alone enough to pay off someone to lie on their behalf. And if the doctor gets caught, they'd lose their license to practice for the rest of their life. You're trying to tell me a doctor is going to risk millions of dollars of future earnings for what, a fiver slipped to him once a month or so? Really? If you believe that then YOU'RE disabled in the brain. Seriously. Doctors get less from SSI than they get from private insurers, so if anything, they'd be tempted to lie and say the patient is NOT disabled, so they can cull the low-money-makers from their list.

 

[Nehemiah6]

While I have never seen a federal program that actually benefited the employee, beyond what any employee would get (that is, fair compensation and benefits).

Federal Workers Scoring Massive Perks In COVID Relief Bill

"One of the more eye-popping ones is a provision mandating fifteen weeks (!) of automatic paid leave above and beyond the normal, generous amounts of paid time off workers receive, for anyone “affected” by the pandemic. For those without a napkin and a pencil handy to do the math, that works out to nearly a third of the entire working year."

"Oh, and it’s not just direct employees of the federal government getting these goodies. Every worker for the U.S. Postal Service gets them as well. "

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/federal-workers-scoring-massive-perks-covid-relief-bill

 

[shittim]

All for the keeping the deep state even more entrenched.

 

[DWR]

It is sad the number of people who claim to be Christian are looking for an ungodly government to solve their perceived problems.
While you may be willing to give up your freedom for all the FREE handouts, I am not.
It is all going to come crashing down very soon because people like me are in the minority.

 

[gb9]

It is sad the number of people who claim to be Christian are looking for an ungodly government to solve their perceived problems.
While you may be willing to give up your freedom for all the FREE handouts, I am not.
It is all going to come crashing down very soon because people like me are in the minority.

just saw a news anchor on my local c b s station this morning, the same person i have seen push outright liberal lies over and over , say that she was redeemed due to God's grace.

redeemed from what? and by what god?

no true Christ follower could go on t v everyday and outright tell the hurtful lies that this person does....

 

[shittim]

the "walk the walk" isn't there in such a case?

 

[Nehemiah6]

no true Christ follower could go on t v everyday and outright tell the hurtful lies that this person does....

Did you read about the long-time female new anchor with Fox News in Phoenix? She got so sick of the lies and garbage that she walked away from a well-paying job just recently. But she also spoke out about the corruption of her profession.

Top-Rated News Anchor Resigns, Destroys Establishment Media Bias in Video
https://www.westernjournal.com/top-...igns-destroys-establishment-media-bias-video/