Where do we agree?

[Lanolin]

I think the basic universal income is a good idea.

I wonder if other countries have it though and whether it has helped alleviated poverty. It would certainly help get people above the breadline, give people dignity, so there is no excuse for starving.

Cant really comment on the other ideas or see how they would work as things have been tried before in other countries and they had mixed success. eg jobs program. seemingly good, gives people somethign to do, but, a lot of that is useless work. If theres no work to be had then theres no work, cant just make up work or make people labour for no reason (what kind of jobs? will it be hard labour? or will you train people to do better jobs? )

I had to laugh about the idea of food stamps but not for sweetened sodas or candy, Only in America lol.
just ban the sweeteend sodas and only have candy on halloween if its a problem.

 

[Lanolin]

I guess govt cant put legal restrictions on coca-cola and mountain dew.
Even though its clearly detrimental to peoples health, being so cheap and heavily promoted over there.

Or can they?

 

[HillsboroMom]

I believe it would benefit to examine these countries. Which countries are you referring to for having Big Government with lower rates of poverty.

Okay, here are the countries that have lower rates of poverty than the US, in alphabetical order:
Australia, Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Canada, Cyprus, Czeck Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Japan, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Slovenia, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, and United Kingdom.

All of them have more centralized / socialist governments than the US.

Do they also have the same laws to protects liberty or God given rights?

That's a fair question.

You'd need to remove Belarus from that list. As for the rest, some have more individual protection than the US (like Switzerland), some have less (like Japan), but all the rest have laws that do protect some amount of individual liberty. Some are even more free than the US. So that's not an excuse.

There is a study out there that shows America's lower class is considered to be one of the richest groups compared to the world. Our poverty has so many routes for support, it is almost by choice if you want to remain poor. Of course, it may take hard work.

This is not true.

I had a friend who used to say this. "There are thousands of homeless shelters. No one has to be homeless. They just don't want to get sober, because the shelters won't let you stay if you're drunk." But that is factually incorrect. I volunteered for a homeless shelter for a few months. There, I learned that the particular county in which I lived had 20,000 homeless people, and around 500 beds for homeless people. Some of those beds were restricted for families with children, or for women. So if you were a man without children, you were pretty much screwed. You don't have to be a math wizard to figure out that if there are 20,000 people and 500 beds, it doesn't matter how sober, drug-free, problem-free you are, not everyone is going to get a bed.

Let's talk about unemployment. Let's say I'm a single mom whose husband died in the war. Even if they raise minimum wage to $9/hour, that's $360/week. Daycare is $600/week. How can I afford to work? If I leave my kids without daycare, I go to jail. What options do I have? What "choice" do I have?

Sure, poverty is a choice. It's a choice wealthy Americans have made to keep the poor poor. It's a choice American voters have made not to fund programs that could truly raise people OUT of poverty instead of just giving them a subsistence and keeping them in the vicious cycle. It's a choice that was made FOR those in poverty, not by them.

 

[HillsboroMom]

I guess govt cant put legal restrictions on coca-cola and mountain dew.
Even though its clearly detrimental to peoples health, being so cheap and heavily promoted over there.

Or can they?

In New York they passed a law banning sugary soft drinks above a certain size at fast food joints. No more "super-size" coke. I don't know if you can get the extra-large diet soft drinks.

 

[Lanolin]

Exile, or death penalty.. I think cages are cruel

a lot of war criminals from the second world war did get exiled from europe to south america. They changed their names and identities and everything. I dont really know what that did to those countries that received them though. hmm

australia was basically a convicts penal colony for the british.

Things is where are people going to go. Jesus had warned people about a certain place unrepentant sinners go, but this is like forever! In the meantime what to do with them?

 

[Lanolin]

im really shocked over the attitudes towards the poor by the rich in countries like the US, who immediately assume that people are poor cos they are lazy drunks who dont pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
It isnt the case for the majority of people.

 

[Lanolin]

rich people can be lazy drunks too, its just they have a lot more to fall back on. The poor can be hardworking as anyone and still not have enough to eat.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

a lot of war criminals from the second world war did get exiled from europe to south america. They changed their names and identities and everything. I dont really know what that did to those countries that received them though. hmm

australia was basically a convicts penal colony for the british.

Things is where are people going to go. Jesus had warned people about a certain place unrepentant sinners go, but this is like forever! In the meantime what to do with them?

There are plenty of uninhibited places, islands and remote areas of the world, where they could be sent. The south pacific still has many uninhabited islands. The artic tundras in northern Alaska and Canada, remote mountain regions of Chili. Africa has many vast and expanses of remote uninhabited area.

 

[HillsboroMom]

The Constitution has many amendments so another amendment is not an issue. If there was a national referendum to amend the Constitution in order to reduce the number of politicians to just 100, chances are that 80-90% of voters would agree.

Do you have any evidence to support that?

I have pretty significant evidence to suggest voters would not agree to amend the constitution to get rid of democracy. I would need to see something that would show an actual poll that asked, "Would you support an amendment that removed representational democracy from the US Constitution" and showed that 80-90% of Americans supported it. Because I really don't believe it.

It is the irresponsible legislation and spending of politicians which has created that astronomical national debt. For example only about 10% or less of that 1.9 trillion spending bill is for COVID relief. The rest is all for Democratic pork.

Well, if you consider $1400 per person "pork," then yes, more than half of it is premium grade A bacon. The biggest chunk of that bill is direct payments to Americans. Perhaps you don't consider that "COVID relief."

The next biggest chunk is going to schools to help them open safely. Because Americans can't return to work until their children return to school. So that is a priority. That's about 25-30% of the bill. I suppose you might consider this "pork" because you don't think the government should be spending anything on education. You think rich people should be allowed to educate their children at their own expense, and poor people are just SOL, keeping them poor and disposable. Because it's their own fault they're poor and uneducated, because you don't think it's the government's job to educate them. So sure, from that perspective, it's "pork."

The remainder is going to hospitals and healthcare clinics to assist in getting the vaccine out. And I totally see how you might consider this "pork," but it is absolutely direct COVID relief, since it has to do with the vaccine. Maybe this is where you're getting your 10% number. That's about right.

There are about 70,000 pages in the Tax Code. I am suggesting a ONE PAGE law which abolishes the tax code and establishes a 10% flat tax. Just one page!

LOL, the 70k pages aren't about individual taxes. There's only about 1k pages on individual taxes, and if you instituted a flat 10% tax, it would be shorter, but it wouldn't be 1 page. You'd need at least 50-100. Like I keep telling you, this is my profession. Trust me, I know.

That's exactly why welfare legislation should be totally ditched, and welfare limited only those with disabilities. There are hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of able-bodied people living off government handout and keeping up a cycle of poverty.

You would need to provide statistics to this for it to be at all accepted. There are not "hundreds of thousands of able-bodied people living off government handouts." As I said, most people on government support are children under 16, adults over 65, and severely disabled people. The amount of fraud and abuse is minimal. They've done multiple studies on this, and you could save a few pennies. The amount of money you could save getting the fraud out is LESS than the amount of money you'd spend getting rid of them. Literally.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

im really shocked over the attitudes towards the poor by the rich in countries like the US, who immediately assume that people are poor cos they are lazy drunks who dont pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
It isnt the case for the majority of people.

True, but the answer isn't welfare. It lower cost of living and debt regulations, that prevent creditors from devouring the lower classes.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Okay, here are the countries that have lower rates of poverty than the US, in alphabetical order:
Australia, Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Canada, Cyprus, Czeck Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Japan, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Slovenia, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, and United Kingdom.

All of them have more centralized / socialist governments than the US.


That's a fair question.

You'd need to remove Belarus from that list. As for the rest, some have more individual protection than the US (like Switzerland), some have less (like Japan), but all the rest have laws that do protect some amount of individual liberty. Some are even more free than the US. So that's not an excuse.


This is not true.

I had a friend who used to say this. "There are thousands of homeless shelters. No one has to be homeless. They just don't want to get sober, because the shelters won't let you stay if you're drunk." But that is factually incorrect. I volunteered for a homeless shelter for a few months. There, I learned that the particular county in which I lived had 20,000 homeless people, and around 500 beds for homeless people. Some of those beds were restricted for families with children, or for women. So if you were a man without children, you were pretty much screwed. You don't have to be a math wizard to figure out that if there are 20,000 people and 500 beds, it doesn't matter how sober, drug-free, problem-free you are, not everyone is going to get a bed.

Let's talk about unemployment. Let's say I'm a single mom whose husband died in the war. Even if they raise minimum wage to $9/hour, that's $360/week. Daycare is $600/week. How can I afford to work? If I leave my kids without daycare, I go to jail. What options do I have? What "choice" do I have?

Sure, poverty is a choice. It's a choice wealthy Americans have made to keep the poor poor. It's a choice American voters have made not to fund programs that could truly raise people OUT of poverty instead of just giving them a subsistence and keeping them in the vicious cycle. It's a choice that was made FOR those in poverty, not by them.

As for the rest, some have more individual protection than the US (like Switzerland

Explain?

Some are even more free than the US.

How so?

This is not true.

The study is linked in the article. Read and learn.

https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/

There, I learned that the particular county in which I lived had 20,000 homeless people, and around 500 beds for homeless people.

What created this problem? Realize I understand there are exceptions to the norm. And by no means saying homelessness isn't a problem. I just believe the government contributed to it.

Let's talk about unemployment. Let's say I'm a single mom whose husband died in the war. Even if they raise minimum wage to $9/hour, that's $360/week. Daycare is $600/week. How can I afford to work? If I leave my kids without daycare, I go to jail. What options do I have? What "choice" do I have?

1. Get remarried
2. Work at a daycare
3. Apply for higher-paying jobs
4. Go to night school for higher-paying jobs
5. Move to a location where family may help out
6. Move to a location with a lower cost of living
7. Research all of your local areas of support like Churches who offer daycare (maybe cheaper)
8. Work from home
9. Live off less
10. Cook your meals compared to fast food
11. Get out or stay out of debt
12. Invest your money wisely
13. Safe-sex equals fewer kids which are more mouths to feed
14. Get rid of your animals
15. Get rid of cable, or any unnecessary subscriptions
16. Use your heating, AC, and electricity wisely
17. Grow your own food or have easy to care for animals like chickens you can harvest eggs or kill to eat.

You will be amazed at what our ancestors did to survive. Even our grandparents.

Sure, poverty is a choice. It's a choice wealthy Americans have made to keep the poor poor. It's a choice American voters have made not to fund programs that could truly raise people OUT of poverty instead of just giving them a subsistence and keeping them in the vicious cycle. It's a choice that was made FOR those in poverty, not by them.

Question: how does it benefit the 5% wealthy class to keep 30% to 40% in the poverty level? It actually benefits the wealthy if these people are working or eligible for hire if they are hard workers or intelligent.

American voters have voted on plenty of socialist programs that Big Government due to corruption has severely damaged. Example: Social Security or the V.A.

It's a choice that was made FOR those in poverty, not by them.

Agree by mainly politicians and Big Government. Not the wealthy or middle-income class. Class division is a Marxist tactic. Free Market Capitalism isn't the problem. Immoral government is the major problem. Of course, the church shares blame too. All churches should be helping the poor, the widow, the orphan, the sick, the addicts, and the wicked.

 

[Smoke]

1. Get remarried
2. Work at a daycare
3. Apply for higher-paying jobs
4. Go to night school for higher-paying jobs
5. Move to a location where family may help out
6. Move to a location with a lower cost of living
7. Research all of your local areas of support like Churches who offer daycare (maybe cheaper)
8. Work from home
9. Live off less
10. Cook your meals compared to fast food
11. Get out or stay out of debt
12. Invest your money wisely
13. Safe-sex equals fewer kids which are more mouths to feed
14. Get rid of your animals
15. Get rid of cable, or any unnecessary subscriptions
16. Use your heating, AC, and electricity wisely
17. Grow your own food or have easy to care for animals like chickens you can harvest eggs or kill to eat.

You will be amazed at what our ancestors did to survive. Even our grandparents.

1.) Marrying for financial security will yield an entirely new problem.
2.) This could work. Perhaps if they all did this, demand goes down thereby decreasing overall costs.
3.) High probability since she was a stay at home military wife/mother, she doesn't have the qualifications for those higher-paying jobs.
4.) So she has her own daycare but now has to pay someone to watch her kid while she goes to night school, assuming she gets grants and/or scholarships so she doesn't have to pay for higher education. Maybe if she drinks coffee throughout the day she may not even need to sleep ever.
5.) Good option if family is available and she has the means to move. I would think this was already being utilize if possible.
6.) Texas is a great state with many opportunities and has a low cost of living, though, this same scenario exists even here.
7.) Good option.
8.) Usually jobs that allow working from home require some skill that would be needed that she probably didn't train/go to school for.
9.) I guess she could live in a tent, eat ramen noodles, use wash clothes instead of toilet paper, and bathed in a local creek so she could save even more money. If her earning potential is below poverty level, I doubt there is much to cut to begin with.
10.) Fast food, while being exponentially more unhealthy, can actually be cheaper. I suppose beggars can't be choosers.
11.) Debt is a form of bondage, so I agree with this. However, sometimes people choose to go in debt so their family can eat. It's a terrible situation for them to be in. If people are so hungry they would be willing to eat dead humans, I can't blame those who use credit cards to go grocery shopping.
12.) Probably doesn't have any money to invest to begin with if they are in debt, unemployed, or starving.
13.) 100% agree with this.
14.) Just eat your animals right? Two birds one stone.
15.) I would like to assume people already did this. If not, excellent advice. It's a waste to have cable if your kids are starving.
16.) If it's freezing or over 100 F, there's not much they can do really. But sure, they might save $5 if they consciously try to use less power. $5 is $5 dollars.
17.) So after she is done putting in 40 hours at her day care business, comes home from night school so she can be more skilled and apply for higher-paying jobs, she can relax and grow a garden when she gets home at midnight. Hopefully the apratment complex lets her grow the food on her porch. By the way, sleep is for the weak.

There are a few good pieces here, but it's not really a game changing plan. Situations like this happen all the time and it's always easier to give suggestions and ideas than it is to make a noticeable positive impact in their lives. I appreciate you at least coming up with a list though, I don't claim to have any answer to help them, but recognize there is absolutely a problem here.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

1.) Marrying for financial security will yield an entirely new problem.
2.) This could work. Perhaps if they all did this, demand goes down thereby decreasing overall costs.
3.) High probability since she was a stay at home military wife/mother, she doesn't have the qualifications for those higher-paying jobs.
4.) So she has her own daycare but now has to pay someone to watch her kid while she goes to night school, assuming she gets grants and/or scholarships so she doesn't have to pay for higher education. Maybe if she drinks coffee throughout the day she may not even need to sleep ever.
5.) Good option if family is available and she has the means to move. I would think this was already being utilize if possible.
6.) Texas is a great state with many opportunities and has a low cost of living, though, this same scenario exists even here.
7.) Good option.
8.) Usually jobs that allow working from home require some skill that would be needed that she probably didn't train/go to school for.
9.) I guess she could live in a tent, eat ramen noodles, use wash clothes instead of toilet paper, and bathed in a local creek so she could save even more money. If her earning potential is below poverty level, I doubt there is much to cut to begin with.
10.) Fast food, while being exponentially more unhealthy, can actually be cheaper. I suppose beggars can't be choosers.
11.) Debt is a form of bondage, so I agree with this. However, sometimes people choose to go in debt so their family can eat. It's a terrible situation for them to be in. If people are so hungry they would be willing to eat dead humans, I can't blame those who use credit cards to go grocery shopping.
12.) Probably doesn't have any money to invest to begin with if they are in debt, unemployed, or starving.
13.) 100% agree with this.
14.) Just eat your animals right? Two birds one stone.
15.) I would like to assume people already did this. If not, excellent advice. It's a waste to have cable if your kids are starving.
16.) If it's freezing or over 100 F, there's not much they can do really. But sure, they might save $5 if they consciously try to use less power. $5 is $5 dollars.
17.) So after she is done putting in 40 hours at her day care business, comes home from night school so she can be more skilled and apply for higher-paying jobs, she can relax and grow a garden when she gets home at midnight. Hopefully the apratment complex lets her grow the food on her porch. By the way, sleep is for the weak.

There are a few good pieces here, but it's not really a game changing plan. Situations like this happen all the time and it's always easier to give suggestions and ideas than it is to make a noticeable positive impact in their lives. I appreciate you at least coming up with a list though, I don't claim to have any answer to help them, but recognize there is absolutely a problem here.

You are explaining variables. My list was simple and not all points would work for each individual. For example, remarrying out of love will bring financial support. Her example wasn't of a homeless family but a struggling family. Sometimes you may have to work hard to get what you need or want. By the way, apartments have many ways you grow food either indoors or making use of small outdoor areas. The first step is to get out of making the excuses mindset.

Every situation is different and everyone needs different amounts of help. One person may need a reality check while others may have done everything possible but still needs help.

I hear testimony after testimony of our grandparent generations who went through real poverty and how so many of them did not have the many programs we have today. But so many worked their butts off to get out of poverty. 3 kids, college, and working part-time. They were tough.

No answer to help but criticize the points made?

Of course, mankind will always have problems. Will always have poverty. Will always have the rich. Let me ask you a question. How does God view the rich? The poor? Was Jesus homeless? Who will be first and who will be last? Who often are the heroes of faith when you are in constant dependence on God?

Why is the church called to help the poor? Was does scripture never speak to the government for handling the poor?

 

[HillsboroMom]

Exile, or death penalty.. I think cages are cruel

There's a growing body of study that's saying that taking TIME away from people -- which is essentially what prison is -- is cruel and unusual punishment. You will never get that time back. Corporal punishment can heal, but you can't get those years back.

I'm against the death penalty, but we need to think of some other options.

 

[HillsboroMom]

The study is linked in the article. Read and learn.

https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/

Thanks for this. It was an interesting article, but there were some problems

For one thing, they added in all the benefits Americans receive (welfare, etc.), but did not compare that to the benefits Europeans receive. So they were comparing apples and oranges. For example, they added up the income for the average American in the bottom 20%, including wages, housing assistance, food stamps, etc., and compared that to the average European, just looking at their wage. But they didn't include all of the benefits that most Europeans receive, such as free health care, free education through college (we only get it through 12th grade), free child care, double the vacation time of most Americans, paid maternity leave, paid paternity leave, etc. etc. etc.... It'd be like me giving you a 1/4 pound hamburger patty, and complaining about my tiny hamburger because it's smaller than yours, even though mine has ketchup, pickles, mustard, bacon, two kinds of cheese, and a bun. It's not really a fair comparison.

I appreciate that Americans are generally not nearly as bad off as some like to think they are. And I very much understand that a lot of poor people certainly made -- and continue to make -- bad choices.

But there are a lot of poor people who made all the RIGHT choices, and still end up poor. And there are a lot of rich people who made bad choices, but because their parents are rich, they have it easy. And that isn't just.

Wanting not to pay taxes because some poor people made some mistakes is cruel and unchristian. I just don't understand why there are so many Christians who seem to think it's okay for someone to starve -- or for their children to starve -- just because their mom or dad made a mistake, all so that some asshole billionaire can keep all his money. It just goes against everything Jesus taught.

 

[Butterflyyy]

1.) Marrying for financial security will yield an entirely new problem.
2.) This could work. Perhaps if they all did this, demand goes down thereby decreasing overall costs.
3.) High probability since she was a stay at home military wife/mother, she doesn't have the qualifications for those higher-paying jobs.
4.) So she has her own daycare but now has to pay someone to watch her kid while she goes to night school, assuming she gets grants and/or scholarships so she doesn't have to pay for higher education. Maybe if she drinks coffee throughout the day she may not even need to sleep ever.
5.) Good option if family is available and she has the means to move. I would think this was already being utilize if possible.
6.) Texas is a great state with many opportunities and has a low cost of living, though, this same scenario exists even here.
7.) Good option.
8.) Usually jobs that allow working from home require some skill that would be needed that she probably didn't train/go to school for.
9.) I guess she could live in a tent, eat ramen noodles, use wash clothes instead of toilet paper, and bathed in a local creek so she could save even more money. If her earning potential is below poverty level, I doubt there is much to cut to begin with.
10.) Fast food, while being exponentially more unhealthy, can actually be cheaper. I suppose beggars can't be choosers.
11.) Debt is a form of bondage, so I agree with this. However, sometimes people choose to go in debt so their family can eat. It's a terrible situation for them to be in. If people are so hungry they would be willing to eat dead humans, I can't blame those who use credit cards to go grocery shopping.
12.) Probably doesn't have any money to invest to begin with if they are in debt, unemployed, or starving.
13.) 100% agree with this.
14.) Just eat your animals right? Two birds one stone.
15.) I would like to assume people already did this. If not, excellent advice. It's a waste to have cable if your kids are starving.
16.) If it's freezing or over 100 F, there's not much they can do really. But sure, they might save $5 if they consciously try to use less power. $5 is $5 dollars.
17.) So after she is done putting in 40 hours at her day care business, comes home from night school so she can be more skilled and apply for higher-paying jobs, she can relax and grow a garden when she gets home at midnight. Hopefully the apratment complex lets her grow the food on her porch. By the way, sleep is for the weak.

There are a few good pieces here, but it's not really a game changing plan. Situations like this happen all the time and it's always easier to give suggestions and ideas than it is to make a noticeable positive impact in their lives. I appreciate you at least coming up with a list though, I don't claim to have any answer to help them, but recognize there is absolutely a problem here.

#7... Hopefully there won’t be any paedophiles there pretending to be nice, Christian child-care workers; this does happen, and I personally do not agree with child-care unless it is by trusted family members/friends.
#13... What if she already has a lot of children from her marriage?
Safe sex?? If she is a Christian then why would her and her late husband have been avoiding having what the Bible tells us is a blessing and reward from God?

There has to be a better answer to this problem. But hey, we are trying to address a problem which arises in a sinful, broken world. It’s part of the world which is on the wide way that absolutely does lead to destruction.
I don’t think anyone has an answer to this ultimately, except the Lord.

The very best thing to do as individuals is pray for governments, to love God with all of our hearts, minds, souls and strength, and to treat others as we would be treated.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

There's a growing body of study that's saying that taking TIME away from people -- which is essentially what prison is -- is cruel and unusual punishment. You will never get that time back. Corporal punishment can heal, but you can't get those years back.

I'm against the death penalty, but we need to think of some other options.

There are some people who are sociopaths, and they are cold blooded killers, now don't get me wrong I'm not for death penalty all willynilly .
But for cold blooded killers and anyone who uses a gun to commit a violent crime. By that way I mean rape Rob or murder someone at gunpoint.

If you want a gun control law that actually works, one simple law. All violent crimes committed at gun point are capitol crimes. And justice should be swift. Everyone gets three trials. One where they are tied by jury, one trial by professional forensic scientists.
And one strictly by the law. Of coarse that's reverse order.

 

[gb9]

I think the basic universal income is a good idea.

I wonder if other countries have it though and whether it has helped alleviated poverty. It would certainly help get people above the breadline, give people dignity, so there is no excuse for starving.

Cant really comment on the other ideas or see how they would work as things have been tried before in other countries and they had mixed success. eg jobs program. seemingly good, gives people somethign to do, but, a lot of that is useless work. If theres no work to be had then theres no work, cant just make up work or make people labour for no reason (what kind of jobs? will it be hard labour? or will you train people to do better jobs? )

I had to laugh about the idea of food stamps but not for sweetened sodas or candy, Only in America lol.
just ban the sweeteend sodas and only have candy on halloween if its a problem.

you also think that governments have the right to put innocent citizens in house arrest by claiming " covid saftey", ( they have no right)

so, of course you think commie universal income is a good idea, lol........

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Explain?



How so?



The study is linked in the article. Read and learn.

https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/



What created this problem? Realize I understand there are exceptions to the norm. And by no means saying homelessness isn't a problem. I just believe the government contributed to it.

1. Get remarried
2. Work at a daycare
3. Apply for higher-paying jobs
4. Go to night school for higher-paying jobs
5. Move to a location where family may help out
6. Move to a location with a lower cost of living
7. Research all of your local areas of support like Churches who offer daycare (maybe cheaper)
8. Work from home
9. Live off less
10. Cook your meals compared to fast food
11. Get out or stay out of debt
12. Invest your money wisely
13. Safe-sex equals fewer kids which are more mouths to feed
14. Get rid of your animals
15. Get rid of cable, or any unnecessary subscriptions
16. Use your heating, AC, and electricity wisely
17. Grow your own food or have easy to care for animals like chickens you can harvest eggs or kill to eat.

You will be amazed at what our ancestors did to survive. Even our grandparents.



Question: how does it benefit the 5% wealthy class to keep 30% to 40% in the poverty level? It actually benefits the wealthy if these people are working or eligible for hire if they are hard workers or intelligent.

American voters have voted on plenty of socialist programs that Big Government due to corruption has severely damaged. Example: Social Security or the V.A.



Agree by mainly politicians and Big Government. Not the wealthy or middle-income class. Class division is a Marxist tactic. Free Market Capitalism isn't the problem. Immoral government is the major problem. Of course, the church shares blame too. All churches should be helping the poor, the widow, the orphan, the sick, the addicts, and the wicked.

Govco definitely created the homelessness problem.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Thanks for this. It was an interesting article, but there were some problems

For one thing, they added in all the benefits Americans receive (welfare, etc.), but did not compare that to the benefits Europeans receive. So they were comparing apples and oranges. For example, they added up the income for the average American in the bottom 20%, including wages, housing assistance, food stamps, etc., and compared that to the average European, just looking at their wage. But they didn't include all of the benefits that most Europeans receive, such as free health care, free education through college (we only get it through 12th grade), free child care, double the vacation time of most Americans, paid maternity leave, paid paternity leave, etc. etc. etc.... It'd be like me giving you a 1/4 pound hamburger patty, and complaining about my tiny hamburger because it's smaller than yours, even though mine has ketchup, pickles, mustard, bacon, two kinds of cheese, and a bun. It's not really a fair comparison.

I appreciate that Americans are generally not nearly as bad off as some like to think they are. And I very much understand that a lot of poor people certainly made -- and continue to make -- bad choices.

But there are a lot of poor people who made all the RIGHT choices, and still end up poor. And there are a lot of rich people who made bad choices, but because their parents are rich, they have it easy. And that isn't just.

Wanting not to pay taxes because some poor people made some mistakes is cruel and unchristian. I just don't understand why there are so many Christians who seem to think it's okay for someone to starve -- or for their children to starve -- just because their mom or dad made a mistake, all so that some asshole billionaire can keep all his money. It just goes against everything Jesus taught.

But they didn't include all of the benefits that most Europeans receive, such as free health care, free education through college (we only get it through 12th grade), free child care, double the vacation time of most Americans, paid maternity leave, paid paternity leave, etc. etc. etc....

You do realize ain't nothing free? And yet poverty still exists. Who does God command to help the needy? The Church or Government? Answer the Church. Why not government? Government is easily prone to fall into corruption. What happens when you depend on government for example school funding and they want to push a antiBiblical mandate like schools who receive federal funding must comply to the trans bathroom, locker room, or sports EO. Putting our daughters at risk? Is free worth it when government controls the the lever of your well being? So many variables to poverty relate to morality or individual choices. Who better to help the heart of the problems? Fatherless homes. Government? Or Jesus?

But there are a lot of poor people who made all the RIGHT choices, and still end up poor.

Not to sound insensitive but it is called life. Not everyone can be rich, stable or poor. Socialist governments usually have the rich in the government or military vs the poor to stable are the citizens.

I just don't understand why there are so many Christians who seem to think it's okay for someone to starve

Who believes this? If you mean people who believe the federal government shouldn't be in matters it wasn't designed for. State and local sure. Private organizations sure. Samaritan Purse does more than FEMA ever could.