The Books of Enoch.

[Tararose]

The book of Enoch falsely implies, among many things:

God kills mankind for the sins of angels.

God creates sexual beings and gives them sexual desire and sperm, creates no female counterpart for any of them, forbids marriage and procreation, while yet enabling them with the ability to cross breed with humans - presumably through force or deception?

That when God spoke into being that every living thing would produce its own kind, He was wrong.

That no giants existed before the sins that led to the flood.

That God thought the flood was necessary to wipe out giants... despite them continuing to thrive on earth and doing battle with Israel later in history, according to scripture.

I could go on, but there is no need. If you want to believe in it, you will. But you have to throw away the omnipotent, all-knowing, loving, righteous and infallible God of the bible from your theology to make it work.

 

[Scribe]

In the modern world who would you see them as are they those who make mobile phones and computers? Are they the CEO"s of the companies who are the giants? Is it incorrect that we marry and give in marriage? Tell us how to identify the children of Cain so we can separate ourselves from them.

Isn't it obvious? If you are a child of God you know that there are things in this world that you no longer participate in that you once found pleasure in. If you listen to some people they seem to be finding ways to compromise and play around with things that your conscience won't allow you to do. What is going on there? They are are being seduced into believing that they can partake and indulge in things that are not holy and they tell themselves "it is not a sin" or "I need to be able to reach people where they are" and other excuses that give them license to partake. These are falling away by degrees and soon they will be completely trapped in the devils snares. Gen 6:2 is the "first mention principle" of hermeneutics.

 

[Scribe]

The book of Enoch falsely implies, among many things:

God kills mankind for the sins of angels.

God creates sexual beings and gives them sexual desire and sperm, creates no female counterpart for them, forbids marriage and procreation, while yet enabling them with the ability to cross breed with humans - presumably through force or deception?

That when God spoke into being that every living thing would produce its own kind, He was wrong.

That no giants existed before the sins that led to the flood.

The God thought the flood was necessary to wipe out giants... despite them continuing to thrive on earth and doing battle with Israel later in history, according to scripture.

I could go on, but there is no need. If you want to believe in it, you will. But you have to throw away the omnipotent, all-knowing, loving, righteous and infallible God of the bible from your theology to make it work.

You are correct. It is similar to a conspiracy theory. Those that want to believe it will keep doing so if Jesus Himself told them to stop it.

 

[Tararose]

And also Jesus Commented on Gen 6:2 in Matthew 24:38 He says that as in the days of Noah they were marrying, right before the flood came, they will be doing that when Jesus Comes suddenly and they will be taken by surprise. No one misunderstood who the they were, MEN. So what verse was he referring to in the days of Noah when they were doing that? Only Gen 6:2 This means that Jesus interpreted the sons of God as men not angels. It is very clear if you concede that Jesus was referring to something that was written. I discovered this when I asked myself the question "Did Jesus ever comment on this verse?" and sure enough He did.

I don't know why it is not common knowledge. It should be.

It cannot be dismissed. 1) either Jesus was referring to something in the OT or he wasn't. It is most likely that when he said this "in the days of Noah" every one of his disciples were trying to remember what the scriptures said about those days. And if they turned to the scrolls they would have discovered a reference to the sons of god marrying wives of all which they choose right before the flood took them all away. This is the marrying they were doing that Jesus is referring to, and Jesus is talking about what men will be doing before Jesus comes again and takes them by surprise. That is His point. We get that. But what people are missing is that he is referring to Gen 6:2. LIGHTBULB!!!! Mystery Solved. Sons of God are men. The lineage of Seth who called themselves by the name of the Lord until they married over into the camp of Cain and the beautiful women that enticed them and adopted the wickedness of that culture until only Noah and his family were left of the sons of God.

And so it will be when the Son of God returns the vast majority of mankind will be persueing their own pleasures, and finding their satisfaction in the things of this world, a total horizontal world view, marrying people who are just as wicked as them and who also want to heap up worldly pleasures as their goals in life. Making their wealth, cars, houses, and childrens welfare their only purpose in life. with no vertical world view of relationship with God, faith in a returning son of God or any concern for anything but their own pleasures. And suddenly they will be destroyed.

FABULOUS! AND SPOT ON!

 

[Magenta]

Yes, but the scripture does not say "any number of people." It says Enoch prophesied of these."

You miss the point

 

[Magenta]

Still though Magenta my friend, those same Jews did not acknowledge the Lord Jesus as the Messiah so their opinion just isn't trustworthy in regards to which writings are in reference to him. Would you expect them to acknowledge anything with even a hint to Christianity?

Do you then reject the whole of the OT as inspired because the untrustworthy
(in your opinion) Jews have accepted it? You are making illogical jumps here.

 

[Edify]

If there's no "Giants" of huge size then why has the Smithsonian Institute been running around the past hundred years or so collecting bones from burial sites all over the US and getting rid of them?
Do the research... many stories say the same thing... They pick them up & we never see them again.

 

[Tararose]

If there's no "Giants" of huge size then why has the Smithsonian Institute been running around the past hundred years or so collecting bones from burial sites all over the US and getting rid of them?
Do the research... many stories say the same thing... They pick them up & we never see them again.

Even the usual ancient myths about Giants would have them a max of about 12 ft. Historical, (ancient) mythological, and more importantly, biblical accounts do not put them in the league of anything like the size conspiracies have them to be.

Nothing solid or convincing where giantism exceeds around 12 ft, and usually the size is more like 10ft or so. There would be nothing to hide if Super-Giants had existed. The scientists would have summed them up as they do all creatures that no longer exist. a prehistoric ancestor of humans who died out when the meteor hit earth - or during an ice age, or something like that.

No need to hide bones.... they can lie well enough in the science community and get away with the daftest stories, and the world laps it up, like with the theory of evolution.

 

[iamsoandso]

Isn't it obvious? If you are a child of God you know that there are things in this world that you no longer participate in that you once found pleasure in. If you listen to some people they seem to be finding ways to compromise and play around with things that your conscience won't allow you to do. What is going on there? They are are being seduced into believing that they can partake and indulge in things that are not holy and they tell themselves "it is not a sin" or "I need to be able to reach people where they are" and other excuses that give them license to partake. These are falling away by degrees and soon they will be completely trapped in the devils snares. Gen 6:2 is the "first mention principle" of hermeneutics.

Hey you'll have to bare with me I'm a very old man and so to me it seems most things fit what your saying. I remember when people waited until after marriage to become intimate and so to me comparing today with then is horrible. I remember when the ocean was not polluted and how we trimmed around the trees before they invented the weed eater. I remember the days when women knew how to cook and men could work on their cars,house ect.

What I cant see in what your saying is now that there in air-conditioning and electricity(things of pleasure) if God is about to destroy the earth again because those "giants in the earth" invented them and talked you and me into using them. You have to realize I'm asking you to identify something you think it is because you disagree with what others think it is so please identify who these giants are in our day so we can avoid them.

 

[Magenta]

The book of Enoch falsely implies, among many things:

God kills mankind for the sins of angels.

God creates sexual beings and gives them sexual desire and sperm, creates no female counterpart for any of them, forbids marriage and procreation, while yet enabling them with the ability to cross breed with humans - presumably through force or deception?

That when God spoke into being that every living thing would produce its own kind, He was wrong.

That no giants existed before the sins that led to the flood.

That God thought the flood was necessary to wipe out giants... despite them continuing to thrive on earth and doing battle with Israel later in history, according to scripture.

I could go on, but there is no need. If you want to believe in it, you will. But you have to throw away the omnipotent, all-knowing, loving, righteous and infallible God of the bible from your theology to make it work.

Jesus told Peter that Satan had asked to sift "all of you" like wheat. We are likewise sifted. We also know from the book of Job that Satan needed God's permission to assail Job, and there were things Satan could not/was not allowed do. From this we can safely and very logically surmise/conclude that if angels were procreating with women, God gave them permission to do so. In light of these specifics, that the proponents of this preposterous assumption assert this as fact is mind bogglingly disturbing, to say the least.

 

[iamsoandso]

Do you then reject the whole of the OT as inspired because the untrustworthy
(in your opinion) Jews have accepted it? You are making illogical jumps here.

Well no, if you read what I said again you'll see that I said they(the Jews) didn't see the NT,Jesus ect. as valid. Why are you turning around what I said and asking me if I reject the OT?(that's not like you from past experiences)

 

[Scribe]

I think they shut this topic down in most bible colleges. It is a running joke. Anyone who tries to convince others about it is avoided and considered a nutjob. It is the most common example used of "stupid arguments" to avoid on campus.

 

[Tararose]

Hey you'll have to bare with me I'm a very old man and so to me it seems most things fit what your saying. I remember when people waited until after marriage to become intimate and so to me comparing today with then is horrible. I remember when the ocean was not polluted and how we trimmed around the trees before they invented the weed eater. I remember the days when women knew how to cook and men could work on their cars,house ect.

What I cant see in what your saying is now that there in air-conditioning and electricity(things of pleasure) if God is about to destroy the earth again because those "giants in the earth" invented them and talked you and me into using them. You have to realize I'm asking you to identify something you think it is because you disagree with what others think it is so please identify who these giants are in our day so we can avoid them.

I know you didn't ask me, but I am hoping my response adds to the equation.

Giants are not a inherently a problem, or the cause of sin. It isn't the fact these giants - mighty men - existed, that was bad, it was what they were doing with their might, their power and so on. They took advantage it seems, and abused their position.

This is what many mighty men, men of position and power, are doing today. Child slavery advances their wealth, some profiteer in human trafficking, drug barrons and pimps profit from the pain and sin of others, owners of companies such as fb turn a blind eye to things like child porn being shared on their site more than any other monitored social network, saying they can't do anything about it because of privacy ... yet they close down accounts when the politics, religious statements, and other private and public posts of an individual, group or page annoy them.

These could be such giants - mighty men- of today.

Having many women, often treating them like toys, using people in general as disposable commodities, and raping the planets of its resources to further their bank balances.

Full well knowing the lasting and detrimental impact their actions have on many.

 

[Scribe]

Hey you'll have to bare with me I'm a very old man and so to me it seems most things fit what your saying. I remember when people waited until after marriage to become intimate and so to me comparing today with then is horrible. I remember when the ocean was not polluted and how we trimmed around the trees before they invented the weed eater. I remember the days when women knew how to cook and men could work on their cars,house ect.

What I cant see in what your saying is now that there in air-conditioning and electricity(things of pleasure) if God is about to destroy the earth again because those "giants in the earth" invented them and talked you and me into using them. You have to realize I'm asking you to identify something you think it is because you disagree with what others think it is so please identify who these giants are in our day so we can avoid them.

Jesus did not mention anything about giants. He said as in the days of Noah they were marrying and giving in marraige and eating and drinking until the flood came. The Son of Man will come and they will be doing the same. There is nothing hard to understand. No complicated allegories need to be invented. Giants have nothing to do with it.

 

[iamsoandso]

Jesus did not mention anything about giants. He said as in the days of Noah they were marrying and giving in marraige and eating and drinking until the flood came. The Son of Man will come and they will be doing the same. There is nothing hard to understand. No complicated allegories need to be invented. Giants have nothing to do with it.

So you think the earth was destroyed with the flood because they were "marrying and giving in marriage and eating and drinking"?

 

[iamsoandso]

I know you didn't ask me, but I am hoping my response adds to the equation.

Giants are not a inherently a problem, or the cause of sin. It isn't the fact these giants - mighty men - existed, that was bad, it was what they were doing with their ), their power and so on. They took advantage it seems, and abused their position.

This is what many mighty men, men of position and power, are doing today. Child slavery advances their wealth, some profiteer in human trafficking, drug barrons and pimps profit from the pain and sin of others, owners of companies such as fb turn a blind eye to things like child porn being shared on their site more than any other monitored social network, saying they can't do anything about it because of privacy ... yet they close down accounts when the politics, religious statements, and other private and public posts of an individual, group or page annoy them.

These could be such giants - mighty men- of today.

Having many women, often treating them like toys, using people in general as disposable commodities, and raping the planets of its resources to further their bank balances.

Full well knowing the lasting and detrimental impact their actions have on many.

No thanks for at least listing a few things you consider to be these mighty men,,,do you think we are just as guilty if we use the things they invented(computers,cars ect.) when we know that they are doing these things(slavery,pollution ect) and do you think we would be deserving of the same punishment?

 

[Diakonos]

I dont believe scripture describes Angel's as having human sperm, a penis, or ejaculation, perhaps you can post this scripture?

What you believe is irrelevant. What Scripture says is relevant.

It appears you have been read toooooo much Greek Mythology

I don't read into greek mythology. I just have a habit of fact-checking everything.

The Sons Of God were human men, that married human women

"sons of God" (plural) (Hebrew=ben ay Elohim) always refers to angels in the Hebrew Scriptures:

Genesis 6:2
2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

Genesis 6:4
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

Job 2:1

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord.

Job 38:7 (before God created Adam and Eve)
7 When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?


The angels are called "sons of God" because they come directly from God. Angels came directly from God. Adam came directly from God. Jesus came directly from God. Mankind is not directly from God because we are descendants of Adam. The angels and Adam and Jesus are all called "sons" of God because they came directly from Him. This is the consistent Biblical usage of this term.

"The Sons of God" took wives, Angel's don't marry humans, it's that simple.

Matthew 22:30KJV
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Exactly. The angels in heaven do not marry...because they are obedient to God. Fallen angels however are disobedient:

Jude 6-7 "Angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

There it is, right there in Jude; Angels indulged in gross immorality just as Sodom and Gomorrah did. Peter elaborates on this subject in chapter 2 of his 2nd epistle.

 

[Truth7t7]

What you believe is irrelevant. What Scripture says is relevant.

I don't read into greek mythology. I just have a habit of fact-checking everything.

"sons of God" (plural) (Hebrew=ben ay Elohim) always refers to angels in the Hebrew Scriptures:

Genesis 6:2
2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

Genesis 6:4
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

Job 2:1

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord.

Job 38:7 (before God created Adam and Eve)
7 When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?


The angels are called "sons of God" because they come directly from God. Angels came directly from God. Adam came directly from God. Jesus came directly from God. Mankind is not directly from God because we are descendants of Adam. The angels and Adam and Jesus are all called "sons" of God because they came directly from Him. This is the consistent Biblical usage of this term.


Exactly. The angels in heaven do not marry...because they are obedient to God. Fallen angels however are disobedient:

Jude 6-7 "Angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

There it is, right there in Jude; Angels indulged in gross immorality just as Sodom and Gomorrah did. Peter elaborates on this subject in chapter 2 of his 2nd epistle.

The Sons Of God were human men, that married human women

Teaching Angels have sex with human women, and maintaining human sperm is a fairytale in mythology, and false teaching.

Look There, Elimelech's Sons Took Human Wives Toooo

Ruth 1:3-4KJV
3 And Elimelech Naomi's husband died; and she was left, and her two sons.
4 And they took them wives of the women of Moab; the name of the one was Orpah, and the name of the other Ruth: and they dwelled there about ten years.

Genesis 6:1-6KJV
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

"The Sons of God" took wives, Angel's don't marry humans, it's that simple.

Matthew 22:30KJV
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

[Tararose]

What you believe is irrelevant. What Scripture says is relevant.
...
Genesis 6:4
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

NOT GIANTS, OR ANGELS, OR CROSS-SPECIES BEINGS, BUT MEN.

IN THOSE DAYS these ''Nephilim' already were in existence and they continued to exist afterwards - when Sons of God produced children with women.

Another thought, Jesus, and scripture, calls Himself the Son of man.

He also quoted Psalm 82 which says,
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Hebrews 1 speaks of Christ - the son of man - and not angels, in regards the sonship of God. This is a far superior position than any angel holds according to scripture.

4So He became as far superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is excellent beyond theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are My Son;today I have become Your Father”? Or again: “I will be HisFather, and He will be MySon”?

Jesus Christ, the word made flesh, was the only clear biblical example of heavenly or spiritual conception in a human being,

Genetic interspecies cross breeding is scientifically impossible and outride of the capacity which God created all living creatures with.

You can cross breed within a broad range of the same species, but even then, if they are too far apart genetically, the resulting offspring if they survive by some chance, are normally incapable of reproducing.

Angels may be capable of many things, I have no idea about what is not written, but it is quite logical to assume that God did not create people with an ability to create offspring with other species.

A literal creative miracle was required in the case of the conception of Jesus. Something only God himself could do.

 

[Tararose]

(my previous post required a click, to expand it, sorry)

This is why God flooded the earth, the surrounding verses are clear. It has nothing to do with angels or giants.

Gen 6
3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal[b]; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.

6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.”