Who is Jesus?
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Christ is God the Son and is eternal which means no beginning or ended.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
eternal
166
166 aionios {ahee-o'-nee-os}
from 165; TDNT - 1:208,31; adj
AV - eternal 42, everlasting 25, the world began + 5550 2,
since the world began + 5550 1, for ever 1; 71
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and
always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
For Synonyms see entry 5801
Also, being firstborn is in the figurative usage not literal since he has always existed.
G4416
πρωτοτόκος
prōtotokos
pro-tot-ok'-os
From G4413 and the alternate of G5088; first born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively): - firstbegotten (-born).
Total KJV occurrences: 9
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
eternal
166
166 aionios {ahee-o'-nee-os}
from 165; TDNT - 1:208,31; adj
AV - eternal 42, everlasting 25, the world began + 5550 2,
since the world began + 5550 1, for ever 1; 71
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and
always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
For Synonyms see entry 5801
Also, being firstborn is in the figurative usage not literal since he has always existed.
G4416
πρωτοτόκος
prōtotokos
pro-tot-ok'-os
From G4413 and the alternate of G5088; first born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively): - firstbegotten (-born).
Total KJV occurrences: 9
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I was referring to this verse:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
This doesn't mean he was created but is "firstborn" in a figurative sense. It means he is the most important "creature" which doesn't mean an animal like we think in English just in case someone out there misunderstands that part as well
The KJV uses very outdated language.-
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DISCLAIMER: I have respect for every single person here. I hope that we can agree, or at least agree to disagree. Never take anything I say as angry, because I am here to love and share biblical truth as I see it. I respect everyone’s God-given right to freewill thought and decision. I will open-mindedly consider what you have to say, and hope that you will do the same for me…
I respect your God-given right to believe as you choose. I believe that just as an egg has three parts- a shell, a membrane, and a yolk, so likewise God is three individuals who are of the same mind and purpose. A body has a million parts- molecules, vessels, dna, etc- but it is one body. In the same way, the church is one body of believers- Christ being the head (Colossians 1:18). The church is of one mind and purpose. Does that mean we are all the same person? Of course not, talk about your multiple personality disorder lol. We all have different personalities, but we all imitate Christ and share the good news of His gospel. If we can be of one mind and purpose, why can’t God?
A man, his son, and his adult grandson own a business. The customer requests to speak to the owner Mr. Smith. “Well I am Mr. Smith”, he replies. “No” says the customer, “I spoke to Mr. Smith yesterday, and you are not him”. “Oh, you wish to speak to my father Greg Smith, he was the only one here yesterday. I am his son Chris Smith.” Now are the father, son, and grandson all the same person? no. Are they all Smith? yes. In the same way ‘God’ is plural just as ‘Smith’ is plural. God said “Let US make man in OUR image”, and the bible says we were made in God’s image.
It makes me cringe when people think I am from a religion that I’m not from. Be that as it may, I do not want to narrow down where I’m from because I want the bible, not any sense of dogma, to be understood and obeyed.
DISCLAIMER: I have respect for every single person here. I hope that we can agree, or at least agree to disagree. Never take anything I say as angry, because I am here to love and share biblical truth as I see it. I respect everyone’s God-given right to freewill thought and decision. I will open-mindedly consider what you have to say, and hope that you will do the same for me…
I am trying to open-mindedly put myself in your thought and reasoning. But I keep coming back to this thought...
Those in Christ will have eternal life. Does that mean those in Christ are like God and always existed? I think it means those in Christ will have eternal life hence forth. Therefore it’s possible to have eternal life without always having been existed. “...and God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.”
I understand the concept of what you are trying to explain, but it is not the comcept of YHVH Elohim. YHVH is Father, is Yeshua is Ruach. There is not three different Gods all rolled into one. Yeshua is YHVH in flesh. Ruach is YHVH in Spirit.
That is why Yeshua was never created but always Creator.
Sorry for assuming you are a JW but the way you understand God is very close to what they preach.
That is why Yeshua was never created but always Creator.
Sorry for assuming you are a JW but the way you understand God is very close to what they preach.
Hello again OneFaith, the Bible tells us that God "created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1) BEFORE He called light into existence by saying, "let there be light".
So, if what you believe is true (that the Lord Jesus is actually the "light" that God created in Genesis 1:3 .. which He called "day" in v5), then you are not correct about Him creating "all things" (as the big daddy of all Creation, the Universe itself, was created PRIOR to God calling "light" into existence).
Actually, God made it clear for us that there is ONE God, period, and that He is the only God who will ever exist. For instance,
The Bible tells us plainly that there is ONE Divine "Being" who we refer to as "God". However, the Bible also makes it clear that this one and only God has ~always~ existed/will always continue to exist as THREE, distinct "Persons". One Divine Being/God existing both from and to everlasting as three distinct Divine Persons is what the Bible tells us about Him.
God has ALWAYS existed. He was not created (or "born"). The same is, of course, true of all three Members of the Godhead, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. That said, God the Son, who existed from everlasting with a Divine nature, was incarnated (born) about 2,000 years ago and took on a second, human nature at that point in time, and so He continues to exist today in Heaven, as the God/man with both a Divine and a human nature (and a now glorified human body).
Hope that helps
~Deut
So, if what you believe is true (that the Lord Jesus is actually the "light" that God created in Genesis 1:3 .. which He called "day" in v5), then you are not correct about Him creating "all things" (as the big daddy of all Creation, the Universe itself, was created PRIOR to God calling "light" into existence).
Actually, God made it clear for us that there is ONE God, period, and that He is the only God who will ever exist. For instance,
Deuteronomy 6
4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
Isaiah 43
10 “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
In order that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
11 “I, even I, am the LORD,
And there is no Savior besides Me.”
The Bible tells us plainly that there is ONE Divine "Being" who we refer to as "God". However, the Bible also makes it clear that this one and only God has ~always~ existed/will always continue to exist as THREE, distinct "Persons". One Divine Being/God existing both from and to everlasting as three distinct Divine Persons is what the Bible tells us about Him.
God has ALWAYS existed. He was not created (or "born"). The same is, of course, true of all three Members of the Godhead, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. That said, God the Son, who existed from everlasting with a Divine nature, was incarnated (born) about 2,000 years ago and took on a second, human nature at that point in time, and so He continues to exist today in Heaven, as the God/man with both a Divine and a human nature (and a now glorified human body).
Hope that helps
~Deut
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I should have added the passage back in again for the sake of discussion, so here it is.
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
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who is Jesus ?
The mighty God.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Tit_2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
The mighty God.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Tit_2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
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B
This is not according to scripture.
You reject the creed, which is according to scripture.
I don't think it wise to dismis the very men who God used to bring us the canon of writtings that we have called, "the Bible".
This is the last I will say on the matter. I don't care of you reply to me or not. I'm not going to bother to read it if you do.
You reject the creed, which is according to scripture.
I don't think it wise to dismis the very men who God used to bring us the canon of writtings that we have called, "the Bible".
This is the last I will say on the matter. I don't care of you reply to me or not. I'm not going to bother to read it if you do.
Hello again OneFaith, the Bible tells us that God "created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1) BEFORE He called light into existence by saying, "let there be light".
So, if what you believe is true (that the Lord Jesus is actually the "light" that God created in Genesis 1:3 .. which He called "day" in v5), then you are not correct about Him creating "all things" (as the big daddy of all Creation, the Universe itself, was created PRIOR to God calling "light" into existence).
Actually, God made it clear for us that there is ONE God, period, and that He is the only God who will ever exist. For instance,
The Bible tells us plainly that there is ONE Divine "Being" who we refer to as "God". However, the Bible also makes it clear that this one and only God has ~always~ existed/will always continue to exist as THREE, distinct "Persons". One Divine Being/God existing both from and to everlasting as three distinct Divine Persons is what the Bible tells us about Him.
God has ALWAYS existed. He was not created (or "born"). The same is, of course, true of all three Members of the Godhead, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. That said, God the Son, who existed from everlasting with a Divine nature, was incarnated (born) about 2,000 years ago and took on a second, human nature at that point in time, and so He continues to exist today in Heaven, as the God/man with both a Divine and a human nature (and a now glorified human body).
Hope that helps
~Deut
So, if what you believe is true (that the Lord Jesus is actually the "light" that God created in Genesis 1:3 .. which He called "day" in v5), then you are not correct about Him creating "all things" (as the big daddy of all Creation, the Universe itself, was created PRIOR to God calling "light" into existence).
Actually, God made it clear for us that there is ONE God, period, and that He is the only God who will ever exist. For instance,
Deuteronomy 6
4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
Isaiah 43
10 “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
In order that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
11 “I, even I, am the LORD,
And there is no Savior besides Me.”
The Bible tells us plainly that there is ONE Divine "Being" who we refer to as "God". However, the Bible also makes it clear that this one and only God has ~always~ existed/will always continue to exist as THREE, distinct "Persons". One Divine Being/God existing both from and to everlasting as three distinct Divine Persons is what the Bible tells us about Him.
God has ALWAYS existed. He was not created (or "born"). The same is, of course, true of all three Members of the Godhead, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. That said, God the Son, who existed from everlasting with a Divine nature, was incarnated (born) about 2,000 years ago and took on a second, human nature at that point in time, and so He continues to exist today in Heaven, as the God/man with both a Divine and a human nature (and a now glorified human body).
Hope that helps
~Deut
He did n to stray into opinions or try to give a scientific explanation to what the human mind cannot comprehend.
Like csi said you don't know what is being said.
It is not heresy to say Jesus was/is begotten.
He emptied himself to become man.
There is a CONTINUANCE. He never stopped being God. He never re existed. He kept his deity throughout his transition into man. He was not created....he kept existing.
The dillima was for a God Man To die on a cross. God made that Happen through Jesus.
It is not heresy to say Jesus was/is begotten.
He emptied himself to become man.
There is a CONTINUANCE. He never stopped being God. He never re existed. He kept his deity throughout his transition into man. He was not created....he kept existing.
The dillima was for a God Man To die on a cross. God made that Happen through Jesus.
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Of God, and of the Holy Trinity.
I. There is but one only,(a) living, and true Godb) who is infinite in being and perfection,(c) a most pure spirit,(d) invisible,(e) without body, parts,(f) or passions,(g) immutable,(h) immense,(i) eternal,(k) incomprehensible,(l) almighty,(m) most wise, most holy,(o) most free,(p) most absolute,(q) working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will,(r) for His own glory;(s) most loving,(t) gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin;(u) the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him;(w) and withal, most just and terrible in His judgments,(x) hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.(z)
(a) Deut. 6:4; I Cor. 8:4, 6.
(b) I Thess. 1:9; Jer. 10:10.
(c) Job 11:7, 8, 9; Job 26:14.
(d) John 4:24.
(e) I Tim. 1:17.
(f) Deut. 4:15, 16; John 4:24, with Luke 24:39.
(g) Acts 14:11, 15.
(h) James 1:17; Mal. 3:6.
(i) I Kings 8:27; Jer. 23:23, 24.
(k) Ps. 90:2; I Tim. 1:17.
(l) Ps. 145:3.
(m) Gen. 17:1; Rev. 4:8.
Rom. 16:27.
(o) Isa. 6:3; Rev. 4:8.
(p) Ps. 115:3.
(q) Exod. 3:14.
(r) Eph. 1:11.
(s) Prov. 16:4; Rom. 11:36.
(t) I John 4:8, 16.
(u) Exod. 34:6, 7.
(w) Heb. 11:6.
(x) Neh. 9:32, 33.
Ps. 5:5, 6.
(z) Nah. 1:2, 3; Exod. 34:7.
II. God hath all life,(a) glory,(b) goodness,(c) blessedness,(d) in and of Himself; and is alone in and unto Himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which He hath made,(e) nor deriving any glory from them,(f) but only manifesting His own glory in, by, unto, and upon them: He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things;(g) and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever Himself pleaseth.(h) In His sight all things are open and manifest;(i) His knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature,(k) so as nothing is to Him contingent, or uncertain.(l) He is most holy in all His counsels, in all His works, and in all His commands.(m) To Him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience He is pleased to require of them.
(a) John 5:26.
(b) Acts 7:2.
(c) Ps. 119:68.
(d) I Tim. 6:15; Rom. 9:5.
(e) Acts 17:24, 25.
(f) Job 22:2, 3.
(g) Rom 11:36.
(h) Rev. 4:11; I Tim. 6:15; Dan. 4:25, 35.
(i) Heb. 4:13.
(k) Rom. 11:33, 34; Ps. 147:5.
(l) Acts 15:18; Ezek. 11:5.
(m) Ps. 145:17; Rom. 7:12.
Rev. 5:12, 13, 14.
III. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.(o) The Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding: the Son is eternally begotten of the Fatherp) the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.(q)
(o) I John 5:7; Matt. 3:16, 17; Matt. 28:19; II Cor. 13:14.
(p) John 1:14, 18.
(q) John 15:26; Gal. 4:6.
WCF
I. There is but one only,(a) living, and true Godb) who is infinite in being and perfection,(c) a most pure spirit,(d) invisible,(e) without body, parts,(f) or passions,(g) immutable,(h) immense,(i) eternal,(k) incomprehensible,(l) almighty,(m) most wise, most holy,(o) most free,(p) most absolute,(q) working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will,(r) for His own glory;(s) most loving,(t) gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin;(u) the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him;(w) and withal, most just and terrible in His judgments,(x) hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.(z)
(a) Deut. 6:4; I Cor. 8:4, 6.
(b) I Thess. 1:9; Jer. 10:10.
(c) Job 11:7, 8, 9; Job 26:14.
(d) John 4:24.
(e) I Tim. 1:17.
(f) Deut. 4:15, 16; John 4:24, with Luke 24:39.
(g) Acts 14:11, 15.
(h) James 1:17; Mal. 3:6.
(i) I Kings 8:27; Jer. 23:23, 24.
(k) Ps. 90:2; I Tim. 1:17.
(l) Ps. 145:3.
(m) Gen. 17:1; Rev. 4:8.
Rom. 16:27.
(o) Isa. 6:3; Rev. 4:8.
(p) Ps. 115:3.
(q) Exod. 3:14.
(r) Eph. 1:11.
(s) Prov. 16:4; Rom. 11:36.
(t) I John 4:8, 16.
(u) Exod. 34:6, 7.
(w) Heb. 11:6.
(x) Neh. 9:32, 33.
Ps. 5:5, 6.
(z) Nah. 1:2, 3; Exod. 34:7.
II. God hath all life,(a) glory,(b) goodness,(c) blessedness,(d) in and of Himself; and is alone in and unto Himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which He hath made,(e) nor deriving any glory from them,(f) but only manifesting His own glory in, by, unto, and upon them: He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things;(g) and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever Himself pleaseth.(h) In His sight all things are open and manifest;(i) His knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature,(k) so as nothing is to Him contingent, or uncertain.(l) He is most holy in all His counsels, in all His works, and in all His commands.(m) To Him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience He is pleased to require of them.
(a) John 5:26.
(b) Acts 7:2.
(c) Ps. 119:68.
(d) I Tim. 6:15; Rom. 9:5.
(e) Acts 17:24, 25.
(f) Job 22:2, 3.
(g) Rom 11:36.
(h) Rev. 4:11; I Tim. 6:15; Dan. 4:25, 35.
(i) Heb. 4:13.
(k) Rom. 11:33, 34; Ps. 147:5.
(l) Acts 15:18; Ezek. 11:5.
(m) Ps. 145:17; Rom. 7:12.
Rev. 5:12, 13, 14.
III. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.(o) The Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding: the Son is eternally begotten of the Fatherp) the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.(q)
(o) I John 5:7; Matt. 3:16, 17; Matt. 28:19; II Cor. 13:14.
(p) John 1:14, 18.
(q) John 15:26; Gal. 4:6.
WCF
DISCLAIMER: I have respect for every single person here. I hope that we can agree, or at least agree to disagree. Never take anything I say as angry, because I am here to love and share biblical truth as I see it. I respect everyone’s God-given right to freewill thought and decision. I will open-mindedly consider what you have to say, and hope that you will do the same for me…
It is not a contradiction because I believe God the Father always existed. And He can do anything- including putting all His fullness into another being- a Son.
It is not a contradiction because I believe God the Father always existed. And He can do anything- including putting all His fullness into another being- a Son.