Who is Jesus?
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DISCLAIMER: I have respect for every single person here. I hope that we can agree, or at least agree to disagree. Never take anything I say as angry, because I am here to love and share biblical truth as I see it. I respect everyone’s God-given right to freewill thought and decision. I will open-mindedly consider what you have to say, and hope that you will do the same for me…
First there is a father before he has a son. Jesus was the light that God created on day one.
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Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Hello OneFaith, I have a question for you (just for clarity's sake), what was written in your last post (and specifically, what I just put in bold above), this is what ~you~ believe about the Lord Jesus Christ, yes, or is that someone else's belief
Thanks!
~Deut
p.s. - I may have some additional questions, but I wanted to know the answer to that question first. Thanks again
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Hello OneFaith, I have a question for you (just for clarity's sake), what was written in your last post (and specifically, what I just put in bold above), this is what ~you~ believe about the Lord Jesus Christ, yes, or is that someone else's belief
Thanks!
~Deut
p.s. - I may have some additional questions, but I wanted to know the answer to that question first. Thanks again
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
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Person= rational individual being.
In the below passage is Jesus speaking of the Holy Spirit as a person. As a rational individual being.
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
In the below passage is Jesus speaking of the Holy Spirit as a person. As a rational individual being.
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
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1
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Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Hello OneFaith, I have a question for you (just for clarity's sake), what was written in your last post (and specifically, what I just put in bold above), this is what ~you~ believe about the Lord Jesus Christ, yes, or is that someone else's belief
Thanks!
~Deut
p.s. - I may have some additional questions, but I wanted to know the answer to that question first. Thanks again
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Hello OneFaith, I have a question for you (just for clarity's sake), what was written in your last post (and specifically, what I just put in bold above), this is what ~you~ believe about the Lord Jesus Christ, yes, or is that someone else's belief
Thanks!
~Deut
p.s. - I may have some additional questions, but I wanted to know the answer to that question first. Thanks again
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
DISCLAIMER: I have respect for every single person here. I hope that we can agree, or at least agree to disagree. Never take anything I say as angry, because I am here to love and share biblical truth as I see it. I respect everyone’s God-given right to freewill thought and decision. I will open-mindedly consider what you have to say, and hope that you will do the same for me…
Thank you for your question. It warms my heart to see people searching the scriptures for God’s truth. Yes, it is my belief, but not because of mine or others’ opinions, but simply because that’s what the bible says. In Colossians chapter one, beginning with verse 15, (and I notice you have similar scriptures), the bible explains that Christ is the firstborn in two different ways. For one He was the first born over all creation (He was the first to be created). “Let there be Light” God said, and indeed Jesus is the Light of the world! (said in John 8:12- Where Jesus said that whoever follows Him would not walk in darkness, because there is no darkness in Him at all).
He was not speaking of physical darkness, but of spiritual darkness. For satan is dark and fell out of heaven when He sinned against God- because darkness must be separated from light, they cannot dwell together. So inthe same way, the light that was created on day one was not a physical light. The sun, moon, and stars weren’t created until day four. Like you mentioned, the Word became flesh- which means He was first spiritual on day one. God had all His fullness go into His Son because there was no mother involved. Jesus was the first born in the beginning of the world, and from that moment on nothing else was created without Him. Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I Am.” Which means He might look like a 30 year old man, but He was born long before Abraham was. (John 8:58).
And there is another way that Jesus was born first. He was the first born from among the dead (resurrected). Well, one might say, how can that be since Jesus resurrected some people before He died on the cross? Jesus was the first to be resurrected never to die again. Therefore He ranks supreme, because it is because of His resurrection that we may also be resurrected. Because if we are baptized into His death we can also share in His resurrection. (Romans 6:3-5).
Jesus existed before light did and he wasn't created. He is the creator of all including light:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
B
You could understand the Trinity by simply reading the Athanasian Creed. This is only hard for western evangelicals, because you reject the creeds on principal. The idea of having a creed and learning it is offensive to you in some kind of way. I guess because you think they are Roman Catholic when they are not. The Creeds were before the great schism. They were developed and pen to combat heresies that certain false teacher tried to infiltrate the church with. So out of stubborn ignorance the western evangelical church foists more ignorance upon their followers.
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Christ wasn’t “human “ he was man without sin .
human is a reference to those children of Adam after he sinned and fell under death “Of man “ humans are those born of fallen sinful man , of Adam and Eve the original sinners after they were cursed with death and evicted from Eden .
Jesus created Adam before he came in the flesh and revealed himself to the world in the gospel .
in the beginning Jesus is the spirit of God who speaks , he says through the ot that one day he was going to be born in the flesh and show himself to the world and whoever believes would be saved
then the gospel is this happening
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16
God promised this long ago that he would reveal himself to all people , and when he did his word would last forever
“And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
Isaiah 40:5-8
The gospel was this promise whichnoccurs
Many different ways in prophecy God would come and be born of a virgin a man like we are , flesh and blood , but his spirit is the same that spoke in the beginning it’s literally God manifest in the form of mankind
he is the example for us of what man is meant to be , the image of God , humans show us what man became the image of Sinful fallen and condemned to death man. Christ is the firstborn of the new things God promised then new heaven and earth to come .
he is God manifesting himself as a
Man in order to save us from adams chosen path Christ was
Made man to undo what Adam had done in disbelieving and disobeying God all mankind followed adams nature afterwards
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
Romans 5:12, 18-19
the things God created in the beginning are condemned Christ is the firstborn from among the dead , Adam is the one who lead us into death . Christ is of the new things to come
human is a reference to those children of Adam after he sinned and fell under death “Of man “ humans are those born of fallen sinful man , of Adam and Eve the original sinners after they were cursed with death and evicted from Eden .
Jesus created Adam before he came in the flesh and revealed himself to the world in the gospel .
in the beginning Jesus is the spirit of God who speaks , he says through the ot that one day he was going to be born in the flesh and show himself to the world and whoever believes would be saved
then the gospel is this happening
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16
God promised this long ago that he would reveal himself to all people , and when he did his word would last forever
“And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
Isaiah 40:5-8
The gospel was this promise whichnoccurs
Many different ways in prophecy God would come and be born of a virgin a man like we are , flesh and blood , but his spirit is the same that spoke in the beginning it’s literally God manifest in the form of mankind
he is the example for us of what man is meant to be , the image of God , humans show us what man became the image of Sinful fallen and condemned to death man. Christ is the firstborn of the new things God promised then new heaven and earth to come .
he is God manifesting himself as a
Man in order to save us from adams chosen path Christ was
Made man to undo what Adam had done in disbelieving and disobeying God all mankind followed adams nature afterwards
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
Romans 5:12, 18-19
the things God created in the beginning are condemned Christ is the firstborn from among the dead , Adam is the one who lead us into death . Christ is of the new things to come
Hello again OneFaith, while I agree with some of what you said in your last post (e.g. His and our resurrection), that is not true of the portion of your post that I quoted here. In fact, it appears that I do not stand alone in disagreeing with you because, quite frankly, you seem to disagree with yourself (so please let me show you what I mean).
You said that you believe what you do, "because that's what the Bible says", so let's see if it does
If what you believe is true about Genesis 1:3 (that Jesus was "born" or came into existence for the first time when His Father said, "let there be light"), then how can John 1 and Colossians 1 'also' be true (since both passages tell us plainly that the Lord Jesus is the Creator of ALL things .. which would certainly include the "heavens and the earth" that were created before "light" was .. cf Hebrews 1:1-2)
We also know that the Being referred to by the Apostle as "the Word" (in John 1) was not only ~with~ God in the beginning, He also ~WAS~ God. IOW, according to the Bible, Jesus Christ ~is God~, our Creator, NOT a "creature", nor any other part of the created order (like "light", in fact, if what you believe is true about Jesus being "light", then He would also have had to create Himself).
Perhaps I am missing something however If so, please let me know what it is.
Thanks!
~Deut
(so please let me show you what I mean).You said that you believe what you do, "because that's what the Bible says", so let's see if it does
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 ~All~ things came into being by Him, and apart from Him ~nothing~ came into being that has come into being.
Colossians 1
16 By Him ~all~ things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him.
17 He is before ~all~ things, and in Him all things hold together.
If what you believe is true about Genesis 1:3 (that Jesus was "born" or came into existence for the first time when His Father said, "let there be light"), then how can John 1 and Colossians 1 'also' be true
(since both passages tell us plainly that the Lord Jesus is the Creator of ALL things .. which would certainly include the "heavens and the earth" that were created before "light" was .. cf Hebrews 1:1-2)We also know that the Being referred to by the Apostle as "the Word" (in John 1) was not only ~with~ God in the beginning, He also ~WAS~ God. IOW, according to the Bible, Jesus Christ ~is God~, our Creator, NOT a "creature", nor any other part of the created order (like "light", in fact, if what you believe is true about Jesus being "light", then He would also have had to create Himself
).Perhaps I am missing something however
If so, please let me know what it is.Thanks!
~Deut
Hello Benadam, where does the Bible tell us that our progenitors were ~created~ as immortal beings If they had truly been "immortal" at the time of the Fall, then they would (by definition) have lived on forever, yes (albeit in a perpetually fallen/decaying condition ).
Is this not, in fact, the very reason that God stationed some of His cherubim and a flaming sword to block our first parents' way to the Tree of Life, so that they could not eat from that particular tree, gain immortal life by doing so, and then be forced to live on forever in their fallen condition
Thanks!
~Deut
If they had truly been "immortal" at the time of the Fall, then they would (by definition) have lived on forever, yes (albeit in a perpetually fallen/decaying condition ).Is this not, in fact, the very reason that God stationed some of His cherubim and a flaming sword to block our first parents' way to the Tree of Life, so that they could not eat from that particular tree, gain immortal life by doing so, and then be forced to live on forever in their fallen condition
Genesis 3
22 The LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.
24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
Thanks!
~Deut