Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?
- Thread starter LostSoul
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
do you mean sort of simply put paul preached the gospel after his conversion to the church ?
the difference in Paul preaching the gospel as he did everywhere the prisons , the ships , the joirneys from city to city of yoyrnsayong pails
Ministry was a seminary, I would agree and that all
Of the writings from the book of Romans to 2 John is a “seminary “ that the holt spirit provides pertaining to the gospel
But it’s really sort of just the apostles preaching the gospel as they were commissioned to do from further revelation based upon his teachings to them. The gospel itself is our doctrine and the New Testament is like a seminary
I can get on board with that one because scripture is what teaches us how To understand scripture
the difference in Paul preaching the gospel as he did everywhere the prisons , the ships , the joirneys from city to city of yoyrnsayong pails
Ministry was a seminary, I would agree and that all
Of the writings from the book of Romans to 2 John is a “seminary “ that the holt spirit provides pertaining to the gospel
But it’s really sort of just the apostles preaching the gospel as they were commissioned to do from further revelation based upon his teachings to them. The gospel itself is our doctrine and the New Testament is like a seminary
I can get on board with that one because scripture is what teaches us how To understand scripture
yes and Paul’s teachings are all coming directly from the four gospels doctrine just as Peter John and James is meant for the church both gentile and Jew
Paul’s an eloquent writer but also he’s not to be studied each verse meaning different thkngs but he takes a long time to get to the point
Peter rather is not as comprehensive but is more to the point like he was in the gospels when he was walking with the lord
for instance
“Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”
1 Peter 2:24 KJV
Paul writes two chapters of detail in his writings but Peter is preaching the same message its
More just straight forward summary style almost
but each have their own areas where the excel to help the church have a fuller understanding all of the nt writings are a seminary message to be put together until we grasp the understanding rn at doesn’t require us to omit one thing and exalt another
Paul preached repentance , eternal judgement , accountability , he warns thoroughly what will cost a person thier inheritance in the kingdom of God , he encourages and gives hope and most of all he points to Jesus as our lord and savior
Paul is the most comprehensive writer in the nt , John is the most spiritual and loving , Peter is the most to the point and James also really is like that Hebrews offers the most understanding of the Old Testament and how it interacts with the new
but the gospel is our source of faith and eternal Life
Paul’s an eloquent writer but also he’s not to be studied each verse meaning different thkngs but he takes a long time to get to the point
Peter rather is not as comprehensive but is more to the point like he was in the gospels when he was walking with the lord
for instance
“Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”
1 Peter 2:24 KJV
Paul writes two chapters of detail in his writings but Peter is preaching the same message its
More just straight forward summary style almost
but each have their own areas where the excel to help the church have a fuller understanding all of the nt writings are a seminary message to be put together until we grasp the understanding rn at doesn’t require us to omit one thing and exalt another
Paul preached repentance , eternal judgement , accountability , he warns thoroughly what will cost a person thier inheritance in the kingdom of God , he encourages and gives hope and most of all he points to Jesus as our lord and savior
Paul is the most comprehensive writer in the nt , John is the most spiritual and loving , Peter is the most to the point and James also really is like that Hebrews offers the most understanding of the Old Testament and how it interacts with the new
but the gospel is our source of faith and eternal Life
The Seminary idea I am using the Synagogue is the different times we read Paul visiting Synagogues. He was a Pharisee. He was an expert on the subject of the LAW. Paul shows us he would begin speaking about the LAW, then connecting the dots to Christ. The Synagogue was not a Seminar, but Paul knowing the customs used it like a classroom.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
I'm not Pentecostal anymore. But Gordon Fee is a tremendous example of a highly educated Greek scholar who is Pentecostal. We used his books in all of the seminaries I attended, 2 Baptist, and one combined. The combined seminary had 2 Baptist denominations, Evangelical Free, a Mennonite denomination and the Canadian Pentecostal denomination. None had the money to support a seminary on its own. There were common core courses, and the theology courses were done separately.
Which goes to show that many denominations have more in common than not in common. I took apologetics courses at the combined seminary, for transfer credit to my home seminary, because they didn't offer them at that time.
Seminary and now studying for my PhD has been the best experience of my life. And, I would say finding a good seminary is essential for any pastor. How is he to preach and teach, if he doesn't know anymore than the congregation? A good pastor leads his congregation. That requires prayer, the leading of the Holy Spirit, and solid biblical training.
Which goes to show that many denominations have more in common than not in common. I took apologetics courses at the combined seminary, for transfer credit to my home seminary, because they didn't offer them at that time.
Seminary and now studying for my PhD has been the best experience of my life. And, I would say finding a good seminary is essential for any pastor. How is he to preach and teach, if he doesn't know anymore than the congregation? A good pastor leads his congregation. That requires prayer, the leading of the Holy Spirit, and solid biblical training.
-
1
- Show all
remember what they did to Jesus ?
“But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:”
Acts 9:22-23 KJV
that’s what happens when the truth of Christ shows up in a group that already knows otherwise like they did in Jerusalem when Jesus began preaching the gospel . it’s why they turned on Jesus also his true claims of being Christ Gods son .
Paul went through a lot to preach the gospel i like his writings a lot and his character in the events of acts . I adore his faith and the eloquent words the Holy Spirit spoke through him to the church .
I haven’t been at this 25 years like some others but I think Paul has a lot of value to Christian growth if we do not part from the gospel message or take only a verse here and there of Paul
I noticed this about six months ago and think I understand how Paul’s writings could easily be distorted
“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
2 Peter 3:15-18 KJV
I like how the epistles work in unison grow in grace and in truth is the message but don’t let go of either message
“But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:”
Acts 9:22-23 KJV
that’s what happens when the truth of Christ shows up in a group that already knows otherwise like they did in Jerusalem when Jesus began preaching the gospel . it’s why they turned on Jesus also his true claims of being Christ Gods son .
Paul went through a lot to preach the gospel i like his writings a lot and his character in the events of acts . I adore his faith and the eloquent words the Holy Spirit spoke through him to the church .
I haven’t been at this 25 years like some others but I think Paul has a lot of value to Christian growth if we do not part from the gospel message or take only a verse here and there of Paul
I noticed this about six months ago and think I understand how Paul’s writings could easily be distorted
“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
2 Peter 3:15-18 KJV
I like how the epistles work in unison grow in grace and in truth is the message but don’t let go of either message
-
1
- Show all
Where do people get the idea that am putting seminarians down?
Truly it makes me wonder what people have learned at all if they can't understand a simple post.
Truly it makes me wonder what people have learned at all if they can't understand a simple post.
My apologies. Think of my post as a general rant, not against your post!
-
1
- Show all
S
Yes! Many don't comprehend how many of the text books are from authors who have different denominational backgrounds. The vast majority of scripture interpretation is agreed upon by most commentaries. Where they differ it is up to the individual to make their decision on which is the better hermeneutic. I am loving the journey of discovering the best authors. I recently discovered these three books that have been useful in selecting commentaries.
New Testament Commentary Survey, D.A. Carson
Old Testament Commentary Survey, Temper Longman III
Commentary and Reference Survey: A Comprehensive Guide to Biblical and Theological Resources, John Glynn
This idea that I keep hearing that reading such books is "The Teachings of Men" is based on ignorance of what is in the books I read.
They are focused on the scripture in its entirety and help point out things that you may not notice upon a cursory reading of the scripture without years of familiarity in the rest of the bible. They are not teachings of men. They are explanations of scriptures by men who are filled with the Holy Spirit and seek to know Christ and make him known. Those that are not of that spirit, such as those who do not believe that the scriptures are the inspired Word of God I do not waste my time with. I don't read technical books about arguments about document theories for Genesis. I focus on books that will reveal Jesus in Genesis.
New Testament Commentary Survey, D.A. Carson
Old Testament Commentary Survey, Temper Longman III
Commentary and Reference Survey: A Comprehensive Guide to Biblical and Theological Resources, John Glynn
This idea that I keep hearing that reading such books is "The Teachings of Men" is based on ignorance of what is in the books I read.
They are focused on the scripture in its entirety and help point out things that you may not notice upon a cursory reading of the scripture without years of familiarity in the rest of the bible. They are not teachings of men. They are explanations of scriptures by men who are filled with the Holy Spirit and seek to know Christ and make him known. Those that are not of that spirit, such as those who do not believe that the scriptures are the inspired Word of God I do not waste my time with. I don't read technical books about arguments about document theories for Genesis. I focus on books that will reveal Jesus in Genesis.
S
Good Post!
Painting with a broad brush should be abandoned at a young age. We should soon learn that it is immature.
The same with criticisms about churches. There are many good churches and most people in America can probably find one near them if they really tried instead of complaining about them as all being bad.
Painting with a broad brush should be abandoned at a young age. We should soon learn that it is immature.
The same with criticisms about churches. There are many good churches and most people in America can probably find one near them if they really tried instead of complaining about them as all being bad.
-
1
- Show all
B
One of the many advantages of seminary, is that you study the biblical languages. Hebrew and greek, aramaic, and even some latin. Another advantage you get to study world history as it relates to the times that the event of the Bible occured. Another one is that you learn what the successors of the Apostles taught.
I have both oppositional and supportive views of seminary. Some of the supportive are listed above, admittedly that one of my oppositions is purely bias; that is a can not stand sophistry, you having been to seminary know what that means. The other is that some but not all mostly the Pentecostal, push their own theology so hard they don't leave the student free to come to the correct conclusion. They shove the conclusion right down your neck.
This sensationalst pietist idea that is being used to oppose seminary is its own kind of poison.
There is far too much untrained ignorance in the pulpits already. They make speeches am hour long and use 4 Bible verses and use them out of context, or mis-characterize them.
When some yahoo starts with a premise, and then pulls verses to shape the text around the idea, I'm out right then.
Any way, I wish you would drop in more often and put some o' that thar book learnin to use around here. Us right thinkin folk need your help in combatin some of the numbskullery round here.
I have both oppositional and supportive views of seminary. Some of the supportive are listed above, admittedly that one of my oppositions is purely bias; that is a can not stand sophistry, you having been to seminary know what that means. The other is that some but not all mostly the Pentecostal, push their own theology so hard they don't leave the student free to come to the correct conclusion. They shove the conclusion right down your neck.
This sensationalst pietist idea that is being used to oppose seminary is its own kind of poison.
There is far too much untrained ignorance in the pulpits already. They make speeches am hour long and use 4 Bible verses and use them out of context, or mis-characterize them.
When some yahoo starts with a premise, and then pulls verses to shape the text around the idea, I'm out right then.
Any way, I wish you would drop in more often and put some o' that thar book learnin to use around here. Us right thinkin folk need your help in combatin some of the numbskullery round here.
-
1
- Show all
If a Seminary is being held in a Baptist format, then I totally expect a Baptist viewpoint of the topic. Same for Pentecostal and all other Denominations. Ever notice the [first 5 letters] to Denomination is 2 letters switched from being Demon?
Anyways, in all Seminary settings, it will be hard pressed to get a general open minded view.
Paul, with. all his education, or in spite of it, was called by Jesus to minister and preach to the gentiles.
Note...this wasnt to the jews, which he was comfortable with and and knew everything about the law cos he was a Pharisee.
This required of Paul to humble himself with lawless people who knew absolutely NOTHING about God.
Note...this wasnt to the jews, which he was comfortable with and and knew everything about the law cos he was a Pharisee.
This required of Paul to humble himself with lawless people who knew absolutely NOTHING about God.
B
I don't play those superstitious games with letters Denom not demon we call that misspelling. Denomination means; to designate a name for a part.
The epistle letters to the different church, such as the Galatians which is the church at Galatia, and even the churches written to in the Revelation, those churches were given names according to their location.
Now I do agree that the divisions between all these churches is demonic. They are all doctrinal divisions because they have fallen away from the teaching of the Apostles. So here is the real problem these divisions have occured since the great reformation. Where men like Luther wanted to purge the corruption that had infiltrated the churches presbytery. Many of the other reformers wanted to redefine the theological terms and ideas. Churches that reject history of are highly suspect. Because you never learn what Polycarp taught/learned from John; yeah that guy who was on Patmos. Nor what Ireneaus taught, or who Athanasius is and why he penned the creed. Hint; it was an affirmation of the Trinity and what Trinity means. Written to combat people who were trying to remove or redefine the Trinity. Now the average evangelical don't understand the Trinity. They say stuff like water which is partialism one of the ideas refuted in the Athanasian Creed.
Pietism replace scholastic study.
I read here on this forum all manner of slander against Constantine, because of lack of education, because churches aren't educating people in our history, they don't know so they spread rumors. Which brings me to revivalism an invention of the early 1900s right along with Pentecostal-ism.
The epistle letters to the different church, such as the Galatians which is the church at Galatia, and even the churches written to in the Revelation, those churches were given names according to their location.
Now I do agree that the divisions between all these churches is demonic. They are all doctrinal divisions because they have fallen away from the teaching of the Apostles. So here is the real problem these divisions have occured since the great reformation. Where men like Luther wanted to purge the corruption that had infiltrated the churches presbytery. Many of the other reformers wanted to redefine the theological terms and ideas. Churches that reject history of are highly suspect. Because you never learn what Polycarp taught/learned from John; yeah that guy who was on Patmos. Nor what Ireneaus taught, or who Athanasius is and why he penned the creed. Hint; it was an affirmation of the Trinity and what Trinity means. Written to combat people who were trying to remove or redefine the Trinity. Now the average evangelical don't understand the Trinity. They say stuff like water which is partialism one of the ideas refuted in the Athanasian Creed.
Pietism replace scholastic study.
I read here on this forum all manner of slander against Constantine, because of lack of education, because churches aren't educating people in our history, they don't know so they spread rumors. Which brings me to revivalism an invention of the early 1900s right along with Pentecostal-ism.
it’s exactly what happened tomisrael
Through the false prophets your dead on there man always brings his own views into Gods clear word and then traditions and ideology of the world creeps in and distorts the word that’s satans plan always has been and will be to stop us from hearing and believing Gods actual word
it’s the reason we have the written word that he spoke sombeievers always have access and don’t have to follow the many competing gospels we have the truth to believe
Through the false prophets your dead on there man always brings his own views into Gods clear word and then traditions and ideology of the world creeps in and distorts the word that’s satans plan always has been and will be to stop us from hearing and believing Gods actual word
it’s the reason we have the written word that he spoke sombeievers always have access and don’t have to follow the many competing gospels we have the truth to believe
-
1
-
1
- Show all
B
Agreed with that.
Because I was reading this morning and I hope you can understand what I'm saying.
I was reading in the psalms and I read this statement, " the Lord takes pleasure in those who fear him, and hope in his steadfast love. " This is so beautiful, because this is the gospel. That we become aware of our dire condition that we stand utterly condemned because our own evil, yet we have hope, faith, trust, in his steadfast love; manifested as Jesus life death and resurrection for us. That if we can trust in this we are saved. Amen.
Because I was reading this morning and I hope you can understand what I'm saying.
I was reading in the psalms and I read this statement, " the Lord takes pleasure in those who fear him, and hope in his steadfast love. " This is so beautiful, because this is the gospel. That we become aware of our dire condition that we stand utterly condemned because our own evil, yet we have hope, faith, trust, in his steadfast love; manifested as Jesus life death and resurrection for us. That if we can trust in this we are saved. Amen.
-
1
- Show all
B
This is why I hate, yes hate! Even loath, that some Christian will impose materialistic standards, and man made doctrines upon the people of grace.
If holiness is judged by these things then wear, a burlap sack and put ashes on, and go about on your knees, and eat the dust of the earth and drink vinegar, because we all deserve death and hell, but Jesus lifts us up and washes the ashes away and feeds us his bread and wine, body and blood and sets us at his feet.
If holiness is judged by these things then wear, a burlap sack and put ashes on, and go about on your knees, and eat the dust of the earth and drink vinegar, because we all deserve death and hell, but Jesus lifts us up and washes the ashes away and feeds us his bread and wine, body and blood and sets us at his feet.