Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??
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Hebrews 10:25 is where it says not to forsake the assembly.
I agree that we worship God whether we are in the assembly or not. Like Roman 12 talks about using the labor of our bodies as a form of worship. So if I help a friend move, and I am working up a sweat lifting and carrying boxes, and I am doing it out of Christian love- God accepts that as worship because I’m doing it for Him (and for my friend, but mostly for Him). But would it be proper for me to carry heavy boxes up and down the aisles of pews during the worship assembly? No, it would not, especially if everyone did. So yes, God has different rules for the worship assembly. Women must be silent, men must speak one at a time, etc.
Perhaps you need to go back to Genesis and review why Eve was made for Adam.
When Eve was made for Adam, the term used to describe her role was ezer kenegdo.
Re: Hebrew ezer kenegdo. In Genesis 2:18, the word "helpmeet" does not occur. The Hebrew expression ezer kenegdo appears, meaning "one who is the same as the other and who surrounds, protects, aids, helps, supports." There is no indication of inferiority or of a secondary position in an hierarchical separation of the male and female "spheres" of responsibility, authority, or social position.
The word ezer is used twice in the Old Testament to refer to the female and 14 times to refer to God.
For example, in the Psalms when David says, "The Lord is my Helper," he uses the word ezer.
Click
and click again.
When Eve was made for Adam, the term used to describe her role was ezer kenegdo.
Re: Hebrew ezer kenegdo. In Genesis 2:18, the word "helpmeet" does not occur. The Hebrew expression ezer kenegdo appears, meaning "one who is the same as the other and who surrounds, protects, aids, helps, supports." There is no indication of inferiority or of a secondary position in an hierarchical separation of the male and female "spheres" of responsibility, authority, or social position.
The word ezer is used twice in the Old Testament to refer to the female and 14 times to refer to God.
For example, in the Psalms when David says, "The Lord is my Helper," he uses the word ezer.
Click
and click again.
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K
Well, from the age of 16 until I was married I traveled in ministry with my family. We sang, preached, counseled, prayed at altars with countless people in hundreds of churches. Now the men in here can argue till the Lord comes back about who is and is not allowed to share the Gospel. But I went out and did it, for 20 yrs. And sisters I can tell you this, there is a great need for women in ministry. A great need. I'm now married and not able to go like before. But the world is hurting, they are lost, they are in bondage. The church sits there every Sunday singing their songs off the wall in air conditioned style. They hear a quick sermon then head to their favorite restaurant to eat. Here is one of the songs we use to sing, think about the words and ask yourself, "Am I called"? Yes, sister, you are!! Especially you who are single. God has a place for you!! Never mind trying to chase down a man, serve the Lord and the man will find YOU !! After 20yrs in ministry in my early 40s the Lord led me to a wonderful man. I'm still amazed when we sit together side by side in the church pew. I believe God blessed me because I was willing to go when I heard the call. I'm not a perfect Christian, not special in any way, just willing to GO! And Jesus commands us to GO and preach the Gospel. Sisters, there is a work for you to do!! Find it, do it with all your heart and God will bless you as He has promised. Don't listen to the detractors who aren't willing to GO. You follow that calling!! You will be blessed!!
Because, In the Shadow of the Steeple, souls are dying... can you hear them crying?
Shadow of the Steeple
Sunday morning sunshine, bathing the land.
Sunday morning people, with Bibles in their hand.
He wonders why, they pass him by
And walk around him, on the street.
To shade the light, that replaced the night,
He cups his hands to see.
In the Shadow of the Steeple, Somone's crying
Does anybody care, can't you hear him crying
In the Shadow of the Steeple, Someone's Crying.
The preacher talks, about the needs
In a distant land.
He says folks, are dying over there
We need to lend a hand.
Its getting late, let's pass the plate,
Just do the best you can.
Then the congregation rises, for their final, A-men
While in the Shadow of the Steeple, Someone's Crying
Does anybody care, cant you hear him crying.
In the Shadow of the Steeple, Someone's dying.
The cold Blue Steel, He clutches Fast.
And he points it the place,
Where the shadow of the steeple,
Is resting on his face
He feels the sting, the bells ring
As he stumbles, and goes down
But folks, just shake their heads,
As they walk away, from the figure on the ground
And in the shadow of the steeple, someone's dying,
Does anybody care, cant you hear him crying
In the shadow of the Steeple, someones dying
And in the Shadow's of our Steeples. souls are dying
Does anybody care. cant you hear them crying
Souls are out there dying, we need to listen for their crying.
Need to reach out to the people, out their underneath our steeple's,
Don't let the shadow of your Steeple, find someone dying.
Because, In the Shadow of the Steeple, souls are dying... can you hear them crying?
Shadow of the Steeple
Sunday morning sunshine, bathing the land.
Sunday morning people, with Bibles in their hand.
He wonders why, they pass him by
And walk around him, on the street.
To shade the light, that replaced the night,
He cups his hands to see.
In the Shadow of the Steeple, Somone's crying
Does anybody care, can't you hear him crying
In the Shadow of the Steeple, Someone's Crying.
The preacher talks, about the needs
In a distant land.
He says folks, are dying over there
We need to lend a hand.
Its getting late, let's pass the plate,
Just do the best you can.
Then the congregation rises, for their final, A-men
While in the Shadow of the Steeple, Someone's Crying
Does anybody care, cant you hear him crying.
In the Shadow of the Steeple, Someone's dying.
The cold Blue Steel, He clutches Fast.
And he points it the place,
Where the shadow of the steeple,
Is resting on his face
He feels the sting, the bells ring
As he stumbles, and goes down
But folks, just shake their heads,
As they walk away, from the figure on the ground
And in the shadow of the steeple, someone's dying,
Does anybody care, cant you hear him crying
In the shadow of the Steeple, someones dying
And in the Shadow's of our Steeples. souls are dying
Does anybody care. cant you hear them crying
Souls are out there dying, we need to listen for their crying.
Need to reach out to the people, out their underneath our steeple's,
Don't let the shadow of your Steeple, find someone dying.
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Ah ok I see where we are misunderstanding each other. Hebrews 10:24-25 doesn't say to assemble together to worship God. If anything it says to assemble together for the purpose of encouraging one another to be loving and do good deeds. If anything church should be an opportunity to do a lot of good deeds.
Then it's more like a social gathering and not for worship. Assembling to worship would be redundant if we already living a holy life.
The Biblical example of what people did when they came together is much different than the modern church. Many people think that singing and listening to a sermon is the kind of worship God is after, but it's not. He's after those who sincerely live holy lives and love Him intensely.
Then it's more like a social gathering and not for worship. Assembling to worship would be redundant if we already living a holy life.
The Biblical example of what people did when they came together is much different than the modern church. Many people think that singing and listening to a sermon is the kind of worship God is after, but it's not. He's after those who sincerely live holy lives and love Him intensely.
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S
There is plenty of evidence that they heard teaching, prayed together, sang hymns, and ate together. I don't even think it is a question that at least that much took place. A study on the book of Acts, or early church history will explain where this information comes from.
A New Testament Survey book usually covers this information as well.
I believe they were very outreach oriented and thought of ways they could spread the Gospel. They were soulwinners. And they encouraged one another in these efforts.
Church should be a place where christians can get involved in learning how to be a soulwinner and make the spreading of the Gospel their chief purpose in life. Listening to a sermon is not the main purpose. If the sermon is a delivered from the scriptures under the empowerment of the Holy Spirit it will help grow Christians into the image of Christ and produce soul winners who want to get more involved in ministry with the church. Church should be where you develop life long friendships that you would give your life for.
If you're not able to develop relationships or get involved in soulwinning efforts try to change that.
A New Testament Survey book usually covers this information as well.
I believe they were very outreach oriented and thought of ways they could spread the Gospel. They were soulwinners. And they encouraged one another in these efforts.
Church should be a place where christians can get involved in learning how to be a soulwinner and make the spreading of the Gospel their chief purpose in life. Listening to a sermon is not the main purpose. If the sermon is a delivered from the scriptures under the empowerment of the Holy Spirit it will help grow Christians into the image of Christ and produce soul winners who want to get more involved in ministry with the church. Church should be where you develop life long friendships that you would give your life for.
If you're not able to develop relationships or get involved in soulwinning efforts try to change that.
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I can agree with that much. The singing is for praise, teaching is for equipping the person of God, praying is communication with God, and eating is for the body. If they build up others to love and do good, but alone those things aren't worship because our hearts can be far away.
I think Romans 12:1-2 is the definition of worship. "Offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God - this is your true and proper worship."
Holy and pleasing would be love, good works, and abstaining from wickedness. That's worship in spirit and truth.
I think Romans 12:1-2 is the definition of worship. "Offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God - this is your true and proper worship."
Holy and pleasing would be love, good works, and abstaining from wickedness. That's worship in spirit and truth.
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I just had a thought. The title of this thread is "Are woman pastors Biblbical?" One could ask "is anything in todays church biblical?"
Sunday morning service isn't.
Minister dressing up isn't.
Communion isn't.
Having a youth pastor isn't.
Paying a pastor a salary isn't.
Having one man run the show isn't.
Having church membership isn't.
Ignoring the priesthood of ALL believers isn't.
Tithing isn't.
Lacking prayer isn't.
Meeting in a building costing millions isn't.
So it is no surpise that female pastors isn't.
Sunday morning service isn't.
Minister dressing up isn't.
Communion isn't.
Having a youth pastor isn't.
Paying a pastor a salary isn't.
Having one man run the show isn't.
Having church membership isn't.
Ignoring the priesthood of ALL believers isn't.
Tithing isn't.
Lacking prayer isn't.
Meeting in a building costing millions isn't.
So it is no surpise that female pastors isn't.
Another believe me what I say supersedes what the scripture says. Amazing how many people who do not have the gift of teaching try and make the scripture say what it doesn't say.
I must admit it is the first time I have read that a women's authority is justifed because Jesus turned the water into wine. FYI, it has nothing at all to do with women in leadership.
If you have not dwelt on the question of woman pastors/preachers you should not be writing about it. For me, it can take me up to two years to investigate a subject before I put pen to paper. To do otherwise is to insult the reader.
I don't know where you got this idea that we think women are a step lesser than men?
Whether women have wisdom or not is irrelevant. All that matters is what the scriptures teach.
As for Jesus obeying his mother, I can't see anywhere in scripture that is a qualification for women to be Elders.
John 2 v 1-11. Context dear girl, context. This passage does not deal with leadership in the church.
There is nowhere in scripture that says a women can lead because she is good at leading. The scripture is clear. An Elder is always a man (Timothy and Titus). Clear as day. Husband of one wife. How can a woman be the husband of one wife?
"For when the dead shall rise..."What has that got to do with leadership in the church?
The word equal is not in scripture as regards men and women. If you had bothered to read up the background to the New Testament church you would have found out that it emancipated women. under Rome they were treated like chattels. Under the church they were treated with respect and care. But they did not see the need to usurp the authority of men.[/QUOTE]
.[/QUOTE]
The family is miniature version of the Church. If there is no man of the house, it is the woman of the house who leads. Or should it be the 10 year old male kid who is looked upon as the leader?
I had no idea this thread was addressing a house where there was no man. I thought is was a discussion about leadership in the church not being female so i fail to understand the conenection between the two.
Women are not treated with respect due for an individual when they are widowed where I come from. For a man, it is different where I'm from. I've seen first hand how widowed women get treated in Church. It's a shameful thing. And I've also seen how women who get separated from their husband get treated as well, in church, in society, among relatives. I'm talking about Christian communities. It does not apply to "All Christian communities". But there are such exceptions and it's bound to be, because this is the world we live in.
I try to avoid basing my teaching on what happens to me. I prefer to stick to what the scripitrue teaches.
The church should be a place which empowers women to face the real world with leadership qualities. At least you have to be progressive enough to understand how society has changed. It should not do the opposite. Silence them from leading. Then what's the point of going to Church for women anyway? What is the point if women cannot teach to the people what the Word of God says? It's the same as the rest of human society. Chauvinistic.
I usually empower everyone to face the world with the word of God as that does not lie and does not lead us astray.
You said the Bible passage I quoted lacked context. On the contrary, if you look at it, Jesus believes that it is not his time to start His mission on earth in John Chapter 2:1-11. Whereas Mary, His mother tells Him to start his work. First miracle. And the disciples seeing that miracle, believed in Jesus. That's what the Scripture says. If that doesn't look like leadership to you, then I don't know what does. No incident in the Bible that is recorded happened without a reason. What I quoted wasn't without context.
The fact that Mary tells him to start his work is not a qualification for leadership in the church.
Being a Christian means that you're saved, so you must think that heaven is where you are even when you are on earth. That's how I look at it. I guess everyone has their own perspective. "Rising from the dead" is the foundation of being a Christian. It's one of the promises our faith rests upon as Christians. We believe in Christ and His salvation for us. Heaven begins on earth. You don't have to wait to go to heaven to experience it. You make heaven your home on earth too. That's how I look at it at least. It's my perspective.
And where does it say knowing that fact is a qualification for leadership in the church in scripture?
As for women teaching the Bible in Church which happens to be the crux of this discussion. Be it any denomination of the Church. Nowhere does it say in the Bible that women cannot teach the Word of God in Church. I've heard women giving the Sunday teaching at the Church where I go to for Sunday service. And when they teach, how can they teach without quoting the Word of God??
Women should keep silent. Don't you have that in your bible? "I haver heard women giving the Sunday sermon." So what? I have heard the unsaved give the Sunday sermon. Does that mean the bible apporves of such?
History speaks differently than what you seem to think. Women have, can and will lead people. You'll just have to get used to it. If not you can remain uncomfortable about it. Up to you.
What difference does it make if women have, can and will lead people. That in itself doesn't make it right. I only go by the scriptuirers and that is very clear. FYI three of the best leaders this century was Golda Meir of Israel, Margaret Thatcher of the UK and Angela Merkel of Germany That in itself does not give authority to the church to appoint women leaders.
FYI I am no girl. And I don't need your patronage Sir, I'm good. I said before in my discussion that you can take what is good from what I've shared. If this discussion gives a change of heart for people who might think on the contrary to what I think even to the degree of 1% then I consider that a victory. Because I happen to believe that Christians are not that hard of heart. At least not all of them.
I realise some people think it is a victory to persuade people to ignore scripture and support their incorrect teaching. After all, the church is full of people like that so what is new. And I can assure you I have no desire to give you my patronage as you are not interested in what the scripture teaches.
P.S. a final scripture. 1Timothy_2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
I must admit it is the first time I have read that a women's authority is justifed because Jesus turned the water into wine. FYI, it has nothing at all to do with women in leadership.
If you have not dwelt on the question of woman pastors/preachers you should not be writing about it. For me, it can take me up to two years to investigate a subject before I put pen to paper. To do otherwise is to insult the reader.
I don't know where you got this idea that we think women are a step lesser than men?
Whether women have wisdom or not is irrelevant. All that matters is what the scriptures teach.
As for Jesus obeying his mother, I can't see anywhere in scripture that is a qualification for women to be Elders.
John 2 v 1-11. Context dear girl, context. This passage does not deal with leadership in the church.
There is nowhere in scripture that says a women can lead because she is good at leading. The scripture is clear. An Elder is always a man (Timothy and Titus). Clear as day. Husband of one wife. How can a woman be the husband of one wife?
"For when the dead shall rise..."What has that got to do with leadership in the church?
The word equal is not in scripture as regards men and women. If you had bothered to read up the background to the New Testament church you would have found out that it emancipated women. under Rome they were treated like chattels. Under the church they were treated with respect and care. But they did not see the need to usurp the authority of men.[/QUOTE]
.[/QUOTE]
The family is miniature version of the Church. If there is no man of the house, it is the woman of the house who leads. Or should it be the 10 year old male kid who is looked upon as the leader?
I had no idea this thread was addressing a house where there was no man. I thought is was a discussion about leadership in the church not being female so i fail to understand the conenection between the two.
Women are not treated with respect due for an individual when they are widowed where I come from. For a man, it is different where I'm from. I've seen first hand how widowed women get treated in Church. It's a shameful thing. And I've also seen how women who get separated from their husband get treated as well, in church, in society, among relatives. I'm talking about Christian communities. It does not apply to "All Christian communities". But there are such exceptions and it's bound to be, because this is the world we live in.
I try to avoid basing my teaching on what happens to me. I prefer to stick to what the scripitrue teaches.
The church should be a place which empowers women to face the real world with leadership qualities. At least you have to be progressive enough to understand how society has changed. It should not do the opposite. Silence them from leading. Then what's the point of going to Church for women anyway? What is the point if women cannot teach to the people what the Word of God says? It's the same as the rest of human society. Chauvinistic.
I usually empower everyone to face the world with the word of God as that does not lie and does not lead us astray.
You said the Bible passage I quoted lacked context. On the contrary, if you look at it, Jesus believes that it is not his time to start His mission on earth in John Chapter 2:1-11. Whereas Mary, His mother tells Him to start his work. First miracle. And the disciples seeing that miracle, believed in Jesus. That's what the Scripture says. If that doesn't look like leadership to you, then I don't know what does. No incident in the Bible that is recorded happened without a reason. What I quoted wasn't without context.
The fact that Mary tells him to start his work is not a qualification for leadership in the church.
Being a Christian means that you're saved, so you must think that heaven is where you are even when you are on earth. That's how I look at it. I guess everyone has their own perspective. "Rising from the dead" is the foundation of being a Christian. It's one of the promises our faith rests upon as Christians. We believe in Christ and His salvation for us. Heaven begins on earth. You don't have to wait to go to heaven to experience it. You make heaven your home on earth too. That's how I look at it at least. It's my perspective.
And where does it say knowing that fact is a qualification for leadership in the church in scripture?
As for women teaching the Bible in Church which happens to be the crux of this discussion. Be it any denomination of the Church. Nowhere does it say in the Bible that women cannot teach the Word of God in Church. I've heard women giving the Sunday teaching at the Church where I go to for Sunday service. And when they teach, how can they teach without quoting the Word of God??
Women should keep silent. Don't you have that in your bible? "I haver heard women giving the Sunday sermon." So what? I have heard the unsaved give the Sunday sermon. Does that mean the bible apporves of such?
History speaks differently than what you seem to think. Women have, can and will lead people. You'll just have to get used to it. If not you can remain uncomfortable about it. Up to you.
What difference does it make if women have, can and will lead people. That in itself doesn't make it right. I only go by the scriptuirers and that is very clear. FYI three of the best leaders this century was Golda Meir of Israel, Margaret Thatcher of the UK and Angela Merkel of Germany That in itself does not give authority to the church to appoint women leaders.
FYI I am no girl. And I don't need your patronage Sir, I'm good. I said before in my discussion that you can take what is good from what I've shared. If this discussion gives a change of heart for people who might think on the contrary to what I think even to the degree of 1% then I consider that a victory. Because I happen to believe that Christians are not that hard of heart. At least not all of them.
I realise some people think it is a victory to persuade people to ignore scripture and support their incorrect teaching. After all, the church is full of people like that so what is new. And I can assure you I have no desire to give you my patronage as you are not interested in what the scripture teaches.
P.S. a final scripture. 1Timothy_2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Oh dear me. It is amazing what you can conjure up if you are determined to ignore scripture. There was no such thing as Women's Day in the New Testament Church.
They did not have podiums because they did not meet in buildings. They met in homes.
They did not have podcasts. They shared by word of mouth.
They reached their ears because there was a church in every town where the people meet together in homes daily.
The example of Abraham and Sarah has nothing at all to do with church leadership.
If you think that wives are not given their authority by their husbands just read the bit about Christ the head, then the husband and then the wife and children. Read a book or two about the background to the New Testament Church and you will learn a lot about what you don' t seem to know. I have read about 20 of them.
Any other supposition of yours which you want to make " thus saith the Lord?"
They did not have podiums because they did not meet in buildings. They met in homes.
They did not have podcasts. They shared by word of mouth.
They reached their ears because there was a church in every town where the people meet together in homes daily.
The example of Abraham and Sarah has nothing at all to do with church leadership.
If you think that wives are not given their authority by their husbands just read the bit about Christ the head, then the husband and then the wife and children. Read a book or two about the background to the New Testament Church and you will learn a lot about what you don' t seem to know. I have read about 20 of them.
Any other supposition of yours which you want to make " thus saith the Lord?"
Acts 18:26 does not show a woman teaching a man. it shows a man and a woman (husband and wife) explaining things to him in their home, not in the assembly.
Acts 2: 16-128. Nothing there about a women teaching men so it is crystal clear.
it does not say no male or female in Christ. It says no male or female in the Spirit and refers to salvation not leadership in the church. I wish people would do a bit of research and homework before making ridiculous claims.
And I don't read anywhere in scripture that the truth is a matter of conscience. What I do read is that the Holy |Spirit will lead you into all truth so the fact that so much speculation is passed off as truth it must mean that people are ignoring the Holy Spirit and putting their spin on things. No wonder the church is up the creek without a paddle.
Acts 2: 16-128. Nothing there about a women teaching men so it is crystal clear.
it does not say no male or female in Christ. It says no male or female in the Spirit and refers to salvation not leadership in the church. I wish people would do a bit of research and homework before making ridiculous claims.
And I don't read anywhere in scripture that the truth is a matter of conscience. What I do read is that the Holy |Spirit will lead you into all truth so the fact that so much speculation is passed off as truth it must mean that people are ignoring the Holy Spirit and putting their spin on things. No wonder the church is up the creek without a paddle.
One of the only versions that says they "took him home" in Acts 18:26 is the NIV. Meanwhile, other versions like the ESV, KJV, NASB, and most others suggest Priscilla and Aquilla "took him [Apollo's] aside" after he was done preaching (meaning they were still in the synagogue contextually) and expounded upon Christ to him. You're cherry picking the version that fits your narrative.
Even if they were in a home setting then it wouldn't make a difference. There are not different rules for being within an assembly than there are for being outside of an assembly because in One Body in Christ we are already assembled.
Acts 2:17 absolutely talks about females 'speaking what God has revealed.' This is the very definition of the word prophesy. This means that there will be women speaking to people (men, women, and children) what is in the Bible. What did you think it meant?
Galatians 3:28 "...there is neither male not female..." meaning gender is irrelevant. If it's irrelevant to God then it should be irrelevant to us.
Yes some things are a matter of conscience. Some things that are sins for you may not necessarily be sins for me.
Romans 14:22-23
22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Even if they were in a home setting then it wouldn't make a difference. There are not different rules for being within an assembly than there are for being outside of an assembly because in One Body in Christ we are already assembled.
Acts 2:17 absolutely talks about females 'speaking what God has revealed.' This is the very definition of the word prophesy. This means that there will be women speaking to people (men, women, and children) what is in the Bible. What did you think it meant?
Galatians 3:28 "...there is neither male not female..." meaning gender is irrelevant. If it's irrelevant to God then it should be irrelevant to us.
Yes some things are a matter of conscience. Some things that are sins for you may not necessarily be sins for me.
Romans 14:22-23
22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
@mustaphadrink you really need to be aware of these verses:
1 Corinthians 10:28-30
28But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: 29Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? 30For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
1 Corinthians 10:28-30
28But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: 29Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? 30For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
I find many defenses of pet doctrines fall into a category that parallels the multiplication of Laws the Jews inferred from 10 commandments.
If one can move an issue into the realm of emotions, any conclusion is possible; simply look at modern socities pandering of acceptance for the sake of pseudopeace.
If one can move an issue into the realm of emotions, any conclusion is possible; simply look at modern socities pandering of acceptance for the sake of pseudopeace.
