Did mind–body dualism exist before original sin?

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#122
Jul 31, 2013
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#122
pittsburghjoe said:
You want physics? You can watch me try and convert ex-Christians back here.

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/84976-what-causes-uncertainty/

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/84975-what-causes-entanglement/?tab=comments#comment-1233692

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/84969-does-anyone-know-what-the-double-slit-experiment-is/
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you do not seem to comprehend that the space the wave equation is in is an abstract probability space which is affected by entropic considerations, and that real, bosonic momentum and energy is full of vector fields.

you also don't seem to care whether you contradict scripture or not. it doesn't matter to you that the Bible describes a physical creation pre-fall. it doesn't matter to you that the gospel describes a physical resurrection.

you got yourself a weird idea that no one agrees with and you're not taking any of our criticism seriously even tho people who do know physics and people who do know scripture are trying to help you reformulate.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#124
Jul 3, 2015
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#124
posthuman said:
It's a striking point that he didn't know. He couldn't tell the difference?
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I reckon it would perhaps have been something like experiencing a dream that seems so real you cannot tell it is a dream.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#126
Feb 28, 2016
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#126
MAG,
you are truly amazing! - I'm a-thinkin' that we just might be about the same 'age'?................smile
HUGS!!!
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#127
Jul 31, 2013
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#127
Magenta said:
I reckon it would perhaps have been something like experiencing a dream that seems so real you cannot tell it is a dream.
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from 'whether in the body i do not know, or out of the body i do not know' i find it poignant that he doesn't seem to consider it at all inconceivable, or even unlikely, that a person could be bodily, physically present in the heavens.

;)

:geek:
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#129
Jul 31, 2013
37,790
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#129
pittsburghjoe said:
Like he wasn't physical ..ya don't say.
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that's just it -- he didn't say -- and he had no bias towards one or the other. it was just as likely to him that he was physically present as it was that he might be only there in spirit.

this is a man far better acquainted with such things than you or i, and chosen by God to write these things as scripture. we should give his testimony great weight, greater than we give our own.
 
Benadam

Benadam

Banned
#130
Aug 14, 2019
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#130
Magenta said:
Animals have the same breath of life from God that humans do.

Physicality + God's breath of life = living soul.
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Animals and man created in the light of the 6th day but only man did God give a living soul. Animals have souls. The word 'living' distinguishes human souls as immortal.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#131
Jul 31, 2013
37,790
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#131
pittsburghjoe said:
Did you even click on one of the links?
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yeah i see they went nowhere, they shot holes in your understanding of physics the size of battleships, and you were not able to communicate to them any kind of convincing rational argument.

like i told you earlier: here's the proof of God from quantum physics. the Copenhagen interpretation + the observer effect + the Heisenberg inequality + axiomatic rejection of solipsism, on the basis of pragmatism if you can conceive of no other. the universe exists if and only if there is a universally conscious observer who is outside of time and unrestrained by Minkowski diagrams.

gnosticism didn't even convince Christians that it was true. it's a lie. you do not convert agnostics by lying to them.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#132
Jul 31, 2013
37,790
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#132
Benadam said:
Animals and man created in the light of the 6th day but only man did God give a living soul. Animals have souls. The word 'living' distinguishes human souls as immortal.
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but animals are also called "living" souls -- Genesis 1:24 for example. nephesh chayah, exactly the same Hebrew words that describe man in Genesis 2:7. the same argument that shows animals are souls proves they are living -- having the very same "breath of life" in them, Genesis 7:22 . . ?

i thought, the only difference in how Genesis describes us, is being made after the image of God. that's not said of the other creatures -- and plants are not described as souls, as they are, and we are.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#133
Jul 31, 2013
37,790
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#133
posthuman said:
the Copenhagen interpretation + the observer effect + the Heisenberg inequality + axiomatic rejection of solipsism
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even if they are solipsistic physicists the observer effect demands that they only exist because God observes them and cannot exist otherwise. they have unconscious functions & systems. a conscious intelligence - an omniscient being - must observe these, or they are not.

or give them Godel's incompleteness theorem and the universe as a logical system, whether it be the actual universe or the solipsistic mini-verse they perceive.

you don't need to contradict the scripture with your 'all things corporeal are evil by virtue of being real' stuff. there are actual proofs from Creation. first cause. conservation of momentum. conservation of information.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#134
May 24, 2014
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#134
pittsburghjoe said:
What good is a present state to an infinite heaven?
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John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

1 Timothy 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and [then] cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

It is only now that we determine the nature of the bed that we shall lie in for all eternity.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#135
Jul 3, 2015
59,946
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#135
Benadam said:
Animals and man created in the light of the 6th day but only man did God give a living soul. Animals have souls. The word 'living' distinguishes human souls as immortal.
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You contradict yourself. And God alone is immortal. The Bible says so :)
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#137
Jul 3, 2015
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#137
pittsburghjoe said:
God can do whatever he wants. Us peasants will not be physical.
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Creation was uncorrupted before Adam sinned. It was not subject to decay. And it was physical.

The creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay
and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in
the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#138
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#138
wazza.

you asking a philosophical question to do with cartesian duality about some catholic doctrine? And expecting people to know the answer?

Maybe you wanna rephrase it into something that makes a bit more sense. Sorry.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#139
Dec 15, 2018
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#139
I think the consenus is NO.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#140
Jan 21, 2021
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#140
Curious how Jesus got into a locked room.

John 20:19

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

via Tim Cheong
 
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