Lord of the Rings

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#1
“It is not the strength of the body, but the strength of the spirit.” — J.R.R. Tolkien

the-lord-of-the-rings-frodo-ring.jpg

The Tennessee Register.
© 2003 Christopher Fenoglio.

When the moment calls for action, will you have the courage to act in a Christian way? Will you make up your mind to follow through with what is right, or will you shrink away and hope someone else will do it?

The courage to act may not come naturally. At first, Frodo wants to get rid of the Ring. When he learns that he has the One Ring of Power from Sauron....

Frodo struggles with the burden of the Ring. He has a strong desire to return to his comfortable life in the Shire and recounts his wishes to Gandalf.

“I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened,” he says. “So do all who live to see such times,” says Gandalf. “But it is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time given us.”

https://www.christopherfenoglio.com/frodos-choice-is-a-model-for-a-christian-life/
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#5
tHeres another series being made right now in Middle Earth (i.e) nz.

Spoiler...Frodo DOES get rid of the ring. He chucks it in the volcano, He doesnt actually use it, the only times he wears it is only by accident. Its just it takes him forever to find a way to destroy it.

Unless this tennessee register is reading LOTR completely differently to me?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,194
113
#6
What a bummer. Great movies!
Hopefully, they will bring them back :D They were available a while ago... ;)

I have seen all three a few times, but they are such excellent
stories so wonderfully told, they can stand multiple viewings :)
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#7
no 'pagan-stories' can hold a candle to Jesus' REAL story -
many still have to come to the understanding of the 'differences'...
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Jan 3, 2021
287
74
28
56
#8
I read the books decades before the movies came out. I saw the movies, too, but the books are much better.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#9
no 'pagan-stories' can hold a candle to Jesus' REAL story -
many still have to come to the understanding of the 'differences'...
True but God created everything. And I believe God or the elements of scripture can be found anywhere if you look.
 

Tararose

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
753
564
93
Uk
www.101christiansocialnetwork.com
#10
Wizards, sorcerers or any sort of magician or witch cannot righteously be used to represent Christ or God.
I know you are not going to like me for my views here, and God can use anything for good, even Satans attacks on Job- but they were evil non the less.

For the record, I watched the first 3 films, extended versions. It was horrific and I have never watched them since.
I am sure Tolken had plenty to say that was correct, and meant no harm. He was maybe convinced, like cs lewis was for a time, that a "good" pagan and a "good witch' were somehow ok in God's eyes. But he is simply wrong. They are engaging in sin, practice a lifestyle of it, indeed it is their profession and they master that sin and use it to get what they want. This is no way represents anything of God.

Before anyone shoots me down, rather than argue the merits of LOTR which I know many can and will do, just at least hear me out.

If you can use (in its correct context) the scriptures to convince a solid, spiritually sound, bible-believing pastor, or even just a believer like little old me, that in just the same way and using just the same logic, making a movie about a committed homosexual couple would be a great idea to get the gospel out there, because the maker of the film told you that this sinful relationship represents Christ and the church, and that their sinful acts together represent acts of Christs love towards His church and their faithful commitment to Him - well then you might be able to convince me LOTR is a "christian" (CHRIST LIKE?) film, or in some way represents "God".

Many believers would rightly be HORRIFIED at the thought of making a film glorifying and promoting acts of sin like that, as even a supposed subtle attempt to reach the lost with "entertaining" fiction that pleases the masses.

Why though? And yes, it is exactly the same principle that we are talking about.

Yet because LOTR and films like The lion The Witch and The Wardrobe are traditionally accepted, quoted and promoted in church, its become ok to say what God says is abominable - such as a wizard or a user of the magic arts - can somehow honourably represent Him, His miricles, or His power.

Even only using basic logic, how can a believer agree with that reasoning?

Of course I know that enjoying LOTR won't send a believer to hell. But, come on! It is obviously massively unbalanced reasoning to say LOTR is Christian in any way.
No other obvious sin in the bible, used so blatantly in this way, would be spoken of so warmly, passionately even, and heralded as the basis for some form of wholesome christian entertainment. I don't know how it became normalised and then promoted as being something to encourage Christians in spiritual warfare, when spiritual warfare and salvational examples in scripture involved burning spell books and denouncing the magic arts.

Unrepentant idolators, murderers, thieves, prostitutes, adulterers, representing God Himself in "Christian" fiction? How would you feel about it? No-one can honestly justify the use of new age pagan mythology, sorcery or magic to depict Christ, the Holy Spirit, or God or His power or His actions, sorry but you just can't. You would certainly have to chuck a lot of scripture out to do it.

So, why do believers do it? I don't mean why do they watch it, goodness, many believers watch and read a lot of sinful stuff and enjoy it in the name of entertainment. But I don't hear them saying, you know those sordid sex scenes in Game of Thrones last night, really reminded me of Christ and the Church. No, they don't bother to pretend because no one would believe that for a second. if you asked them why they watch such filth, they tend to just say they don't have a problem with it. At least that is honest!

That's my entire bug bear. If they just said, "yeah LOTR is a well made fantasy film and although it glorifies things the bible says are sinful, and calls evil good, I just don't have a problem with it", at least that would actually be the truth.

Can you see God in it, sure, people see correlations in lot of things. Christian or not. My atheist, new age and pagan aquaintances love LOTR, but actually more so The Lion The Witch and The wardrobe, as they see a lot more in common with their beliefs in it. (And they would be pretty accurate in saying that.)

I am sure I do tons of non-salvational related stuff that others here disagree with, but I am hoping that this post might provoke people to just stop trying to make out these type of stories in some way righteously, spiritually represent the pure and holy God of the bible, or anything He has done or does, or anything He is.

Then again, openly admitting to and expressing such an unpopular view might just get me a few red circles with x in them or thumbs down, as it usually does lol.

Either way, these things make for good discussions at least. If people are open to it anyway.....
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#11
Wizards, sorcerers or any sort of magician or witch cannot righteously be used to represent Christ or God.
I know you are not going to like me for my views here, and God can use anything for good, even Satans attacks on Job- but they were evil non the less.

For the record, I watched the first 3 films, extended versions. It was horrific and I have never watched them since.
I am sure Tolken had plenty to say that was correct, and meant no harm. He was maybe convinced, like cs lewis was for a time, that a "good" pagan and a "good witch' were somehow ok in God's eyes. But he is simply wrong. They are engaging in sin, practice a lifestyle of it, indeed it is their profession and they master that sin and use it to get what they want. This is no way represents anything of God.

Before anyone shoots me down, rather than argue the merits of LOTR which I know many can and will do, just at least hear me out.

If you can use (in its correct context) the scriptures to convince a solid, spiritually sound, bible-believing pastor, or even just a believer like little old me, that in just the same way and using just the same logic, making a movie about a committed homosexual couple would be a great idea to get the gospel out there, because the maker of the film told you that this sinful relationship represents Christ and the church, and that their sinful acts together represent acts of Christs love towards His church and their faithful commitment to Him - well then you might be able to convince me LOTR is a "christian" (CHRIST LIKE?) film, or in some way represents "God".

Many believers would rightly be HORRIFIED at the thought of making a film glorifying and promoting acts of sin like that, as even a supposed subtle attempt to reach the lost with "entertaining" fiction that pleases the masses.

Why though? And yes, it is exactly the same principle that we are talking about.

Yet because LOTR and films like The lion The Witch and The Wardrobe are traditionally accepted, quoted and promoted in church, its become ok to say what God says is abominable - such as a wizard or a user of the magic arts - can somehow honourably represent Him, His miricles, or His power.

Even only using basic logic, how can a believer agree with that reasoning?

Of course I know that enjoying LOTR won't send a believer to hell. But, come on! It is obviously massively unbalanced reasoning to say LOTR is Christian in any way.
No other obvious sin in the bible, used so blatantly in this way, would be spoken of so warmly, passionately even, and heralded as the basis for some form of wholesome christian entertainment. I don't know how it became normalised and then promoted as being something to encourage Christians in spiritual warfare, when spiritual warfare and salvational examples in scripture involved burning spell books and denouncing the magic arts.

Unrepentant idolators, murderers, thieves, prostitutes, adulterers, representing God Himself in "Christian" fiction? How would you feel about it? No-one can honestly justify the use of new age pagan mythology, sorcery or magic to depict Christ, the Holy Spirit, or God or His power or His actions, sorry but you just can't. You would certainly have to chuck a lot of scripture out to do it.

So, why do believers do it? I don't mean why do they watch it, goodness, many believers watch and read a lot of sinful stuff and enjoy it in the name of entertainment. But I don't hear them saying, you know those sordid sex scenes in Game of Thrones last night, really reminded me of Christ and the Church. No, they don't bother to pretend because no one would believe that for a second. if you asked them why they watch such filth, they tend to just say they don't have a problem with it. At least that is honest!

That's my entire bug bear. If they just said, "yeah LOTR is a well made fantasy film and although it glorifies things the bible says are sinful, and calls evil good, I just don't have a problem with it", at least that would actually be the truth.

Can you see God in it, sure, people see correlations in lot of things. Christian or not. My atheist, new age and pagan aquaintances love LOTR, but actually more so The Lion The Witch and The wardrobe, as they see a lot more in common with their beliefs in it. (And they would be pretty accurate in saying that.)

I am sure I do tons of non-salvational related stuff that others here disagree with, but I am hoping that this post might provoke people to just stop trying to make out these type of stories in some way righteously, spiritually represent the pure and holy God of the bible, or anything He has done or does, or anything He is.

Then again, openly admitting to and expressing such an unpopular view might just get me a few red circles with x in them or thumbs down, as it usually does lol.

Either way, these things make for good discussions at least. If people are open to it anyway.....
I kind of agree I dont get why some christians go gaga for cs lewis and tolkien and see their stories as christian and quote them as if they are scripture.

I have the stories in the library but they are fantasy fiction. They are entertaining but I wouldnt mix them up as biblical. I have a hard time with ppl who try to convince the selves that Aslan the lion is Christ when in the Bible, Jesus is the lamb of God, as in reality lions dont sacrifice themselves, only in fantasy fiction they do that!

You can read Born free if you want to but its not convicing that lions are not gonna be anything but hunters and predators.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
9,091
113
#12
Hopefully, they will bring them back :D They were available a while ago... ;)

I have seen all three a few times, but they are such excellent
stories so wonderfully told, they can stand multiple viewings :)
Have you seen the extended versions?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#13
Wizards, sorcerers or any sort of magician or witch cannot righteously be used to represent Christ or God.
I know you are not going to like me for my views here, and God can use anything for good, even Satans attacks on Job- but they were evil non the less.

For the record, I watched the first 3 films, extended versions. It was horrific and I have never watched them since.
I am sure Tolken had plenty to say that was correct, and meant no harm. He was maybe convinced, like cs lewis was for a time, that a "good" pagan and a "good witch' were somehow ok in God's eyes. But he is simply wrong. They are engaging in sin, practice a lifestyle of it, indeed it is their profession and they master that sin and use it to get what they want. This is no way represents anything of God.

Before anyone shoots me down, rather than argue the merits of LOTR which I know many can and will do, just at least hear me out.

If you can use (in its correct context) the scriptures to convince a solid, spiritually sound, bible-believing pastor, or even just a believer like little old me, that in just the same way and using just the same logic, making a movie about a committed homosexual couple would be a great idea to get the gospel out there, because the maker of the film told you that this sinful relationship represents Christ and the church, and that their sinful acts together represent acts of Christs love towards His church and their faithful commitment to Him - well then you might be able to convince me LOTR is a "christian" (CHRIST LIKE?) film, or in some way represents "God".

Many believers would rightly be HORRIFIED at the thought of making a film glorifying and promoting acts of sin like that, as even a supposed subtle attempt to reach the lost with "entertaining" fiction that pleases the masses.

Why though? And yes, it is exactly the same principle that we are talking about.

Yet because LOTR and films like The lion The Witch and The Wardrobe are traditionally accepted, quoted and promoted in church, its become ok to say what God says is abominable - such as a wizard or a user of the magic arts - can somehow honourably represent Him, His miricles, or His power.

Even only using basic logic, how can a believer agree with that reasoning?

Of course I know that enjoying LOTR won't send a believer to hell. But, come on! It is obviously massively unbalanced reasoning to say LOTR is Christian in any way.
No other obvious sin in the bible, used so blatantly in this way, would be spoken of so warmly, passionately even, and heralded as the basis for some form of wholesome christian entertainment. I don't know how it became normalised and then promoted as being something to encourage Christians in spiritual warfare, when spiritual warfare and salvational examples in scripture involved burning spell books and denouncing the magic arts.

Unrepentant idolators, murderers, thieves, prostitutes, adulterers, representing God Himself in "Christian" fiction? How would you feel about it? No-one can honestly justify the use of new age pagan mythology, sorcery or magic to depict Christ, the Holy Spirit, or God or His power or His actions, sorry but you just can't. You would certainly have to chuck a lot of scripture out to do it.

So, why do believers do it? I don't mean why do they watch it, goodness, many believers watch and read a lot of sinful stuff and enjoy it in the name of entertainment. But I don't hear them saying, you know those sordid sex scenes in Game of Thrones last night, really reminded me of Christ and the Church. No, they don't bother to pretend because no one would believe that for a second. if you asked them why they watch such filth, they tend to just say they don't have a problem with it. At least that is honest!

That's my entire bug bear. If they just said, "yeah LOTR is a well made fantasy film and although it glorifies things the bible says are sinful, and calls evil good, I just don't have a problem with it", at least that would actually be the truth.

Can you see God in it, sure, people see correlations in lot of things. Christian or not. My atheist, new age and pagan aquaintances love LOTR, but actually more so The Lion The Witch and The wardrobe, as they see a lot more in common with their beliefs in it. (And they would be pretty accurate in saying that.)

I am sure I do tons of non-salvational related stuff that others here disagree with, but I am hoping that this post might provoke people to just stop trying to make out these type of stories in some way righteously, spiritually represent the pure and holy God of the bible, or anything He has done or does, or anything He is.

Then again, openly admitting to and expressing such an unpopular view might just get me a few red circles with x in them or thumbs down, as it usually does lol.

Either way, these things make for good discussions at least. If people are open to it anyway.....
It was talking about the hobbit, not a wizard.

If you are talking about Gandalf I do not recall his character being portrayed as perfect and holy. In fact he declined the ring knowing the temptation would be great. We are all sinners and find temptation. But you do have an obvious battle between good and evil.

Then again if this is a stumbling block for you, it may be advisable to look away.

I apologize as sometimes I forget their may be those of faith who's conscience may feel guilty of such discussions.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#14
I kind of agree I dont get why some christians go gaga for cs lewis and tolkien and see their stories as christian and quote them as if they are scripture.

I have the stories in the library but they are fantasy fiction. They are entertaining but I wouldnt mix them up as biblical. I have a hard time with ppl who try to convince the selves that Aslan the lion is Christ when in the Bible, Jesus is the lamb of God, as in reality lions dont sacrifice themselves, only in fantasy fiction they do that!

You can read Born free if you want to but its not convicing that lions are not gonna be anything but hunters and predators.
I'm not replacing the Bible. But Jesus is considered the lion and the lamb. Which in Narnia the Lion is also sacrificed but returns.

Read the book of Acts and recall how Paul uses places, objects, people, and popular philosophical beliefs of the day to apologetically promote Christ. Recall he once used a pagan statue for worshipping the unknown gods as a talking point on who exactly is the unknown God. The only unknown God to those pagans was Yahweh.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,194
113
#16
I'm not replacing the Bible. But Jesus is considered the lion and the lamb. Which in Narnia the Lion is also sacrificed but returns.

Read the book of Acts and recall how Paul uses places, objects, people, and popular philosophical beliefs of the day to apologetically promote Christ. Recall he once used a pagan statue for worshipping the unknown gods as a talking point on who exactly is the unknown God. The only unknown God to those pagans was Yahweh.
Paul was all things to all people :) ... that he could by all means save some :)
 

Tararose

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
753
564
93
Uk
www.101christiansocialnetwork.com
#17
It was talking about the hobbit, not a wizard.

If you are talking about Gandalf I do not recall his character being portrayed as perfect and holy. In fact he declined the ring knowing the temptation would be great. We are all sinners and find temptation. But you do have an obvious battle between good and evil.

Then again if this is a stumbling block for you, it may be advisable to look away.

I apologize as sometimes I forget their may be those of faith who's conscience may feel guilty of such discussions.
Nothing to apologise for as far as I can see, i enjoy the discussion.

My point was regarding the films being touted as Christian, and the idea that a sorcerer, or the use of sorcery in general is depicted as good etc. by a famous and highly respected Christian author, in what many claim to be an allegory of the spiritual warfare of believers.

This analogy many use, does involve a representation of God and His power assisting lesser beings on their journey as they battle the evil forces etc. not to mention Gandolf (didn’t he exist before the universe?) dies and comes even back more powerful. than ever. Dressed in white and all that etc.

My reply wasn’t aimed at the op specifically, just LOTR generally and similar stories, being labelled by many as Christian.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#18
Nothing to apologise for as far as I can see, i enjoy the discussion.

My point was regarding the films being touted as Christian, and the idea that a sorcerer, or the use of sorcery in general is depicted as good etc. by a famous and highly respected Christian author, in what many claim to be an allegory of the spiritual warfare of believers.

This analogy many use, does involve a representation of God and His power assisting lesser beings on their journey as they battle the evil forces etc. not to mention Gandolf (didn’t he exist before the universe?) dies and comes even back more powerful. than ever. Dressed in white and all that etc.

My reply wasn’t aimed at the op specifically, just LOTR generally and similar stories, being labelled by many as Christian.
I'm sure some out there go to far with it and there is no defense of that.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Jan 3, 2021
287
74
28
56
#19
making a movie about a committed homosexual couple would be a great idea to get the gospel out there,
Actually, I can totally see this working.

I know many gay people who are at a point in their lives where they are starting to feel like there's something wrong with what they're doing. They are, you might say, ripe for harvest. But many of them won't even consider Christianity because of the hatred many Christians show towards gays.

Making a movie about a gay couple who find Jesus, repent, and turn their lives around, could be a great way to reach people. Show them a way to live upright that isn't preachy, that shows more of "love the sinner" than "hate the sin."

I don't know if this will change anyone's mind in here, but I could see it working.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#20
Wizards, sorcerers or any sort of magician or witch cannot righteously be used to represent Christ or God.
I know you are not going to like me for my views here, and God can use anything for good, even Satans attacks on Job- but they were evil non the less.

For the record, I watched the first 3 films, extended versions. It was horrific and I have never watched them since.
I am sure Tolken had plenty to say that was correct, and meant no harm. He was maybe convinced, like cs lewis was for a time, that a "good" pagan and a "good witch' were somehow ok in God's eyes. But he is simply wrong. They are engaging in sin, practice a lifestyle of it, indeed it is their profession and they master that sin and use it to get what they want. This is no way represents anything of God.

Before anyone shoots me down, rather than argue the merits of LOTR which I know many can and will do, just at least hear me out.

If you can use (in its correct context) the scriptures to convince a solid, spiritually sound, bible-believing pastor, or even just a believer like little old me, that in just the same way and using just the same logic, making a movie about a committed homosexual couple would be a great idea to get the gospel out there, because the maker of the film told you that this sinful relationship represents Christ and the church, and that their sinful acts together represent acts of Christs love towards His church and their faithful commitment to Him - well then you might be able to convince me LOTR is a "christian" (CHRIST LIKE?) film, or in some way represents "God".

Many believers would rightly be HORRIFIED at the thought of making a film glorifying and promoting acts of sin like that, as even a supposed subtle attempt to reach the lost with "entertaining" fiction that pleases the masses.

Why though? And yes, it is exactly the same principle that we are talking about.

Yet because LOTR and films like The lion The Witch and The Wardrobe are traditionally accepted, quoted and promoted in church, its become ok to say what God says is abominable - such as a wizard or a user of the magic arts - can somehow honourably represent Him, His miricles, or His power.

Even only using basic logic, how can a believer agree with that reasoning?

Of course I know that enjoying LOTR won't send a believer to hell. But, come on! It is obviously massively unbalanced reasoning to say LOTR is Christian in any way.
No other obvious sin in the bible, used so blatantly in this way, would be spoken of so warmly, passionately even, and heralded as the basis for some form of wholesome christian entertainment. I don't know how it became normalised and then promoted as being something to encourage Christians in spiritual warfare, when spiritual warfare and salvational examples in scripture involved burning spell books and denouncing the magic arts.

Unrepentant idolators, murderers, thieves, prostitutes, adulterers, representing God Himself in "Christian" fiction? How would you feel about it? No-one can honestly justify the use of new age pagan mythology, sorcery or magic to depict Christ, the Holy Spirit, or God or His power or His actions, sorry but you just can't. You would certainly have to chuck a lot of scripture out to do it.

So, why do believers do it? I don't mean why do they watch it, goodness, many believers watch and read a lot of sinful stuff and enjoy it in the name of entertainment. But I don't hear them saying, you know those sordid sex scenes in Game of Thrones last night, really reminded me of Christ and the Church. No, they don't bother to pretend because no one would believe that for a second. if you asked them why they watch such filth, they tend to just say they don't have a problem with it. At least that is honest!

That's my entire bug bear. If they just said, "yeah LOTR is a well made fantasy film and although it glorifies things the bible says are sinful, and calls evil good, I just don't have a problem with it", at least that would actually be the truth.

Can you see God in it, sure, people see correlations in lot of things. Christian or not. My atheist, new age and pagan aquaintances love LOTR, but actually more so The Lion The Witch and The wardrobe, as they see a lot more in common with their beliefs in it. (And they would be pretty accurate in saying that.)

I am sure I do tons of non-salvational related stuff that others here disagree with, but I am hoping that this post might provoke people to just stop trying to make out these type of stories in some way righteously, spiritually represent the pure and holy God of the bible, or anything He has done or does, or anything He is.

Then again, openly admitting to and expressing such an unpopular view might just get me a few red circles with x in them or thumbs down, as it usually does lol.

Either way, these things make for good discussions at least. If people are open to it anyway.....
I greatly respect your zeal and vision for holiness. You have caused me to stop and rethink some things. Life is short and eternity is long. The fields are white for harvest. The time quickly cometh when no man can work. There will be plenty of time and opportunity to rest once we get to the other side. Bless you, sister.