Coronavirus is nothing to fear.
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Now you're on to what I was saying. God is our parent and our groom, not our tyrant. That's why he hates Idolatry and blasphemy. It's the same as adultery's against him. He wants us to repent and come home because he loved us before he created us. He desires us to love him, freely, not forcefully. That's what free will is for and does if we have the capacity. We were disobedient before Jesus was born. He was born to take the punishment that we deserve. He wasn't forced to, in fact he didn't even oppose it. He chose to do it out of love for us, out of his free will. It works both ways. Or it dosn't work at all!
Love is the first gift of the Holy Spirit. Before tongues, prophecy or healing. Love comes first. He never said if you obey me you love me. Case closed.
Love is the first gift of the Holy Spirit. Before tongues, prophecy or healing. Love comes first. He never said if you obey me you love me. Case closed.
Yes and amen. My point is love is not forced or conditional. Love comes first. Neither love nor obedience is forced or programed. We are free to love. If we truly love someone we will desire to please them. We are allowed to do good works because we desire to do what pleases him. We are free not to. We are not guard dogs, prisoners or robots. We are free not forced to choose. When I asked for salvation I had to learn how to turn from sin AKA repent. I didn't believe in hell then, so I didn't do it out of fear. I did it out of emptiness, loneliness and the desire to feel loved. I had to learn the rest. If love is not forced then it comes from free will. The Lord came for us before we knew him and waited for us to choose to follow him. He didn't whip or put leashes on us.
How many times do we have to go around this mulberry bush? (I'm not speaking to you @Smoke but the free will deniers. Denial is not a river in Egypt. Denial means; Don't Even kNow I Am Lying.
How many times do we have to go around this mulberry bush? (I'm not speaking to you @Smoke but the free will deniers. Denial is not a river in Egypt. Denial means; Don't Even kNow I Am Lying.
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"You said we don't have free will (ordained with free will). So the events that brought about the crucifixion of Jesus Christ couldn't have been the result of man's doing, as they don't have free will. That means God is the one that forced them to murder Jesus if it wasn't the free will of man. I'm missing something if you disagree with this. How do you reconcile this?"
Man is responsible for Jesus' execution in so far as the responsibility be with the species of the men who had him executed.
Man does not have free will. Man was created by God and as such are subject to the limitations he designed us to have. There is nothing man can do outside of God's design.
I will refer back to the analogy of the robot; the robot can make choices, yet never beyond its programming. Even if the robot can choose from an infinite number of possibilities, it would not be able to do so outside of its programming. It is the same with man.
God has made it clear that all men will die. This is something no man can decide against. Man is not free to defy this law of God's. He has not endowed us with this capability. We cannot decide our future. We may imagine something, and it may happen, but the decision is not ours. Even then, our imagination is limited as per God's design. If you do not believe me, you are welcome to imagine and visualise a new colour. You will not be able to. We can no more will ourselves to do so than a dog can will himself to talk as a human would.
Man is responsible for Jesus' execution in so far as the responsibility be with the species of the men who had him executed.
Man does not have free will. Man was created by God and as such are subject to the limitations he designed us to have. There is nothing man can do outside of God's design.
I will refer back to the analogy of the robot; the robot can make choices, yet never beyond its programming. Even if the robot can choose from an infinite number of possibilities, it would not be able to do so outside of its programming. It is the same with man.
God has made it clear that all men will die. This is something no man can decide against. Man is not free to defy this law of God's. He has not endowed us with this capability. We cannot decide our future. We may imagine something, and it may happen, but the decision is not ours. Even then, our imagination is limited as per God's design. If you do not believe me, you are welcome to imagine and visualise a new colour. You will not be able to. We can no more will ourselves to do so than a dog can will himself to talk as a human would.
So why do you think you loved your parents?
I'm sorry it was really tough for you to lose your parents. If you could and did chose not to love them (to avoid the feelings you had when they passed), then "love" would be considered a type of weakness to you, wouldn't it?
I understand your point-of-view (I think) to a certain degree, but I think we just view the definition of "love" differently.
I'm sorry it was really tough for you to lose your parents. If you could and did chose not to love them (to avoid the feelings you had when they passed), then "love" would be considered a type of weakness to you, wouldn't it?
I understand your point-of-view (I think) to a certain degree, but I think we just view the definition of "love" differently.
This is what I'm not understanding though. How is it the "species of the men" who had him executed if you confess "man does not have free will"? If man doesn't have free will, it's no more their fault for murdering Jesus as it's not the fault of the bullet for killing someone. Someone chose to shoot the gun, which caused the bullet to be projected at a person who later died as a result of being shot. The person who caused it is at fault... but in this scenario, God was the one who would have caused the men to murder Jesus as they didn't choose to do it (God's design as you say).
I might agree with some points you make about us/robots.
It's true we have many choices in our life ranging from what I want to think about and imagine to who I want to speak to. It's also true we are limited in our free will as I can't will myself to fly or live forever. But because I can't live forever or fly, do you then believe we don't have any free will seeing as it can only go so far?
I might agree with some points you make about us/robots.
It's true we have many choices in our life ranging from what I want to think about and imagine to who I want to speak to. It's also true we are limited in our free will as I can't will myself to fly or live forever. But because I can't live forever or fly, do you then believe we don't have any free will seeing as it can only go so far?
God causes everything. We can choose to do things, and choose not to do things, and these choices are limited by our environment (created by God) and our individual design (created by God). If will has limitations ('can only go so far', as you said) it is not free.
Humans are at fault for everything they do. Everything humans do is risky. All humans have made 'mistakes' or committed 'accidents'. Even if excused, they are still responsible. This begs the question of for where should we distinguish between fault and responsibility? If a man is shot, all involved are responsible. The shooter, the man who was in the place he was when he was shot, the manufacturer of the firearm, the men who paved the street upon which the incident occurred.
The men did choose to kill Jesus. I refer you my robot analogy. A robot programmed with infinite choices to make can make choices and one of them could be to kill a man. Did the robots programmer force him to kill Jesus?
Humans are at fault for everything they do. Everything humans do is risky. All humans have made 'mistakes' or committed 'accidents'. Even if excused, they are still responsible. This begs the question of for where should we distinguish between fault and responsibility? If a man is shot, all involved are responsible. The shooter, the man who was in the place he was when he was shot, the manufacturer of the firearm, the men who paved the street upon which the incident occurred.
The men did choose to kill Jesus. I refer you my robot analogy. A robot programmed with infinite choices to make can make choices and one of them could be to kill a man. Did the robots programmer force him to kill Jesus?
1 Timothy 6:10- For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Are you angry with God? Do you blame God for everything you do wrong, or all of the wrong that's been done to you? If so I suggest that you make amends with God. He's already sent Jesus for you. It's your turn.
Are you angry with God? Do you blame God for everything you do wrong, or all of the wrong that's been done to you? If so I suggest that you make amends with God. He's already sent Jesus for you. It's your turn.
I admit I quoted a common misquotation. I believe that Satan is in charge of everything that is not dedicated to Jesus. God allows it to happen to sepperate the wheat from the chaff. That's why the rapture will happen before the next Judgment of the world.
The annihilationist doctrine (as I understand it) is that sinners left behind will be consumed (incinerated) by fire. They will be no more. They're lucky if it's true because... Hell is for Satan and his demons and they will burn there forever. According to the same doctrine.
Choose ye today whom ye may serve. For Me and my house(hold) we choose the Lord.
The annihilationist doctrine (as I understand it) is that sinners left behind will be consumed (incinerated) by fire. They will be no more. They're lucky if it's true because... Hell is for Satan and his demons and they will burn there forever. According to the same doctrine.
Choose ye today whom ye may serve. For Me and my house(hold) we choose the Lord.