Jesus said .....

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throughfaith

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#1
Aug 4, 2020
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#1
Jesus said what and to who ?
All of the bible is FOR us ,but not all the bible is TO us .
Now some react to this as if I'm saying some of the bible is irrelevant or that we might as well tear some books out of the bible. No I'm saying ALL !! of the bible is FOR us . So that s from Genesis to revelation. But not ALL of the bible is TO us .
An example of this is : Genesis 6.14 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
So this command was TO Noah , but this verse is FOR our information and understanding . Its not TO us ,but its FOR us . Were not to build an Ark today.
Ok this should be straightforward. But , Why stop there ? How about in the Gospel of Luke : 17.14 ?
And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

This verse is Not TO us but its still FOR us . We don't " shew ourselves unto those priests " to be cleansed . But its For our understanding..
Here's the issue. Why do some read the bible without noticing this? Why do some miss who Jesus is speaking to and when ? Why are Jesus words misapplied ? The above verses are not the only example ,most of the problems with wrong doctrines is due to this issue .
 
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throughfaith

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#4
Aug 4, 2020
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#4
throughfaith said:
Jesus said what and to who ?
All of the bible is FOR us ,but not all the bible is TO us .
Now some react to this as if I'm saying some of the bible is irrelevant or that we might as well tear some books out of the bible. No I'm saying ALL !! of the bible is FOR us . So that s from Genesis to revelation. But not ALL of the bible is TO us .
An example of this is : Genesis 6.14 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
So this command was TO Noah , but this verse is FOR our information and understanding . Its not TO us ,but its FOR us . Were not to build an Ark today.
Ok this should be straightforward. But , Why stop there ? How about in the Gospel of Luke : 17.14 ?
And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

This verse is Not TO us but its still FOR us . We don't " shew ourselves unto those priests " to be cleansed . But its For our understanding..
Here's the issue. Why do some read the bible without noticing this? Why do some miss who Jesus is speaking to and when ? Why are Jesus words misapplied ? The above verses are not the only example ,most of the problems with wrong doctrines is due to this issue .
Click to expand...
The main questions that should arise with this principle in mind are : Is Jesus talking to Israel ; Is he talking to Jews ; Is Jesus speaking under the law ; Is Jesus speaking before the cross; to the disciples; Is it After the cross ; Before the Ascension; before the giving of the Holy Spirit ; Before the conversion of Paul ; before Peter realises the Gentiles are also included in receiving the Holy Spirit? Many false teachings abound by missing these observations.
 
Yahshua

Yahshua

Senior Member
#5
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
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#5
throughfaith said:
Jesus said what and to who ?
All of the bible is FOR us ,but not all the bible is TO us .
Now some react to this as if I'm saying some of the bible is irrelevant or that we might as well tear some books out of the bible. No I'm saying ALL !! of the bible is FOR us . So that s from Genesis to revelation. But not ALL of the bible is TO us .
An example of this is : Genesis 6.14 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
So this command was TO Noah , but this verse is FOR our information and understanding . Its not TO us ,but its FOR us . Were not to build an Ark today.
Ok this should be straightforward. But , Why stop there ? How about in the Gospel of Luke : 17.14 ?
And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

This verse is Not TO us but its still FOR us . We don't " shew ourselves unto those priests " to be cleansed . But its For our understanding..
Here's the issue. Why do some read the bible without noticing this? Why do some miss who Jesus is speaking to and when ? Why are Jesus words misapplied ? The above verses are not the only example ,most of the problems with wrong doctrines is due to this issue .
Click to expand...
Well to be fair, none of the bible is TO us.

The (New) Covenant promise was specifically TO The Almighty's people (Israel & Judah)

The Messiah's ministry was TO the lost sheep.

Paul's letters were written TO the specific believers of the particular land the letter was sent to.

None of it was TO us.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#6
Aug 4, 2020
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#6
Yahshua said:
Well to be fair, none of the bible is TO us.

The (New) Covenant promise was specifically TO The Almighty's people (Israel & Judah)

The Messiah's ministry was TO the lost sheep.

Paul's letters were written TO the specific believers of the particular land the letter was sent to.

None of it was TO us.
Click to expand...
Good point. This is where language ( or maybe my limited usage of it ) fails here. To try explain further i would say the ' to us ' can be understood giving a example. In Paul's letters he's writing TO the ' body ' . So the closest i can say its ' to ' us would be to say every believer during the church age ( Acts 2 to the harpazo) is immersed into the body by the Holy Spirit ,so this information is ' to ' us ( in the body ) . As opposed to what is ' to ' Israel. Just for example.Of course some blurr this with replacement theology garbagr which is another good point to make.
 
Yahshua

Yahshua

Senior Member
#7
Sep 22, 2013
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#7
throughfaith said:
Good point. This is where language ( or maybe my limited usage of it ) fails here. To try explain further i would say the ' to us ' can be understood giving a example. In Paul's letters he's writing TO the ' body ' . So the closest i can say its ' to ' us would be to say every believer during the church age ( Acts 2 to the harpazo) is immersed into the body by the Holy Spirit ,so this information is ' to ' us ( in the body ) . As opposed to what is ' to ' Israel. Just for example.Of course some blurr this with replacement theology garbagr which is another good point to make.
Click to expand...
(Full disclosure; I'm on the other side of the specific argument you're making with regard to the body of Christ differing from Israel)...but I understand what you're saying here and do agree with the greater point. Agreed, it's important to pay attention to whom words are addressed because it provides necessary context that keeps the reader away from doctrines that aren't necessarily supported by scripture.

Again, I believe there's scriptural evidence that shows the BOC and Israel are linked in a unique way...I'm also in agreement with you that replacement theology is false...but to your point, yes I believe we wouldn't have so many different denominations/factions if teachers properly focused on what was said to whom.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#8
Dec 6, 2016
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#8
throughfaith said:
Jesus said what and to who ?
All of the bible is FOR us ,but not all the bible is TO us .
.
Click to expand...
What part of the bible have you decided is not to us, so we can ignore it?

Scripture tells us that we can ignore some of the commands given to those unruly, mixed crowds of people that Moses worked to lead to Christ. But we are to learn about them so we can best understand Christ and the laws they were to lead to. In that way, even these commands are to us.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#9
Aug 4, 2020
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#9
Blik said:
What part of the bible have you decided is not to us, so we can ignore it?

Scripture tells us that we can ignore some of the commands given to those unruly, mixed crowds of people that Moses worked to lead to Christ. But we are to learn about them so we can best understand Christ and the laws they were to lead to. In that way, even these commands are to us.
Click to expand...
I would recommend to read my post again . I think you missed it .
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#10
Jun 30, 2015
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#10
Blik said:
What part of the bible have you decided is not to us, so we can ignore it?
Click to expand...
ThroughFaith has already responded, but I think it's worthwhile to put this back to you, because you do this consistently. You have a bad habit of misquoting people and completely corrupting what they write.

Here are TF's exact words:

throughfaith said:
All of the bible is FOR us ,but not all the bible is TO us
Now some react to this as if I'm saying some of the bible is irrelevant or that we might as well tear some books out of the bible. No I'm saying ALL !! of the bible is FOR us . So that s from Genesis to revelation. But not ALL of the bible is TO us .
Click to expand...
Where in there did TF write, "So we can ignore it"? NOWHERE! That is your addition. TF didn't even hint at such an idea, and in fact clearly and deliberately rejects it. Yet somehow you think that's what was written. Your question implicitly accuses TF of something they did not do.

For goodness' sake, Blik, DON'T DO THAT. Don't paraphrase the words of others and add statements that they did not write! Better yet, don't paraphrase at all.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#11
#11
throughfaith said:
Jesus said what and to who ?
All of the bible is FOR us ,but not all the bible is TO us .
Now some react to this as if I'm saying some of the bible is irrelevant or that we might as well tear some books out of the bible. No I'm saying ALL !! of the bible is FOR us . So that s from Genesis to revelation. But not ALL of the bible is TO us .
An example of this is : Genesis 6.14 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
So this command was TO Noah , but this verse is FOR our information and understanding . Its not TO us ,but its FOR us . Were not to build an Ark today.
Ok this should be straightforward. But , Why stop there ? How about in the Gospel of Luke : 17.14 ?
And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

This verse is Not TO us but its still FOR us . We don't " shew ourselves unto those priests " to be cleansed . But its For our understanding..
Here's the issue. Why do some read the bible without noticing this? Why do some miss who Jesus is speaking to and when ? Why are Jesus words misapplied ? The above verses are not the only example ,most of the problems with wrong doctrines is due to this issue .
Click to expand...
Very good question 😊❓❓❓

Here is a answer. For decades the preaching and teachings of the new testament was from a greek prospective. The greek jesus. Separation from Jewish law , customs, and traditions, have been lost or frowned upon. As many believe in the earlier church that God was finished with Israel.
That some how jesus was about a new religion.
Jesus said on more than one occasion " he had come to fulfill the law not destroy it".
Paul said we are grafted in.....but grafted into what?
Paul said we are a new creature in Christ Jesus.....what does that mean?
For our bodies are the temple.....built without hands but still made through fornacation.
So what is the remedy?
Jesus said all must be born again.
We are grafted into Judaism are roots are found there.

The scriptures you have as a example clearly show jesus following the laws and traditions of Judaism.
The showing your self to the temple priest is found in the old testament ways.
There are many many more things jesus did to show he was the promised one.
As was foretold by the prophets.
God created the Jewish race/people. Abram to Abraham. By faith Abraham pleased God.
We enter in through faith......not by works.
So does that mean that the law and customs and traditions are null and void?
No not to say we as of the way are under the law but have escape it's burden as it was and is fulfilled
In Christ Jesus who we are found in.
The church is the body of Christ. Exclusive to Christ. For we are the bride of Christ.
As adam said about eve .....this is bone of my bone flesh of my flesh.
 
C

Child0fYAHUAH

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#13
Dec 11, 2020
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#13
It is also possible that all things were fulfilled, just as he said. The destruction of the temple, the destruction of the entire Roman empire, the mountains melting like wax, Satan bound for 1000 yrs., His glorious return, 1000 yr reign, Satan loosed to deceive the nations, & we are in the end times!!!!
 
phil36

phil36

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#14
Feb 12, 2009
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#14
throughfaith said:
An example of this is : Genesis 6.14 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
So this command was TO Noah , but this verse is FOR our information and understanding . Its not TO us ,but its FOR us . Were not to build an Ark today.-----


This verse is Not TO us but its still FOR us
Click to expand...


So lets get a bit clearer here. Do you mean the actual initial conversation was not to us directly? But between God and Noah.. and not the written record? At this point your argument is untenable.

But you do realize that the recorded words (scripture) was to be given to us.. so not only is all of scripture to us, it is also for us.

I think your trying to make an argument for an arguments sake. And showing that you actually don't understand the very gift God has given to you for your sake in Scripture.

Scripture is God talking TO you!
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#15
throughfaith said:
The main questions that should arise with this principle in mind are : Is Jesus talking to Israel ; Is he talking to Jews ; Is Jesus speaking under the law
Click to expand...
There are EXTREMELY FEW instances when Jesus was addressing Jews and only the requirements of the Law of Moses. The bulk of His words are to the world and to the Church.
 
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throughfaith

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#16
Aug 4, 2020
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#16
Nehemiah6 said:
There are EXTREMELY FEW instances when Jesus was addressing Jews and only the requirements of the Law of Moses. The bulk of His words are to the world and to the Church.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear , because there is always a knee jerk , virtue signalling, reaction to the phrase ' All the bible is FOR us but not all the bible is TO us . Any one reading the scriptures they had completed at the time they read it would benefit from reading all scripture . Its no different today with us having the completed bible. Its ALL for us to understand ect . But at certain times ' they ' under a certain spokesman followed that instruction . What we have today is over 40 authors ,written over 1500 years . And we today should take care not to follow someone else's mail. This is was SDA,s ,Jehovah's_Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics, Ect are doing. Not to mention, the majority of denominations.
 
phil36

phil36

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#17
Feb 12, 2009
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#17
Who decides which parts of the bible aren't being spoken to you? Isn't that what cults do...?
 
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throughfaith

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#18
Aug 4, 2020
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#18
phil36 said:
Who decides which parts of the bible aren't being spoken to you? Isn't that what cults do...?
Click to expand...
The bible. This should be obvious ,if we believe and trust the bible. Many don't. They are trusting a ' ism ' or their favourite theologians ect . The bible says ' Israel ' and some think " oh that's not just Israel . The books , letters, literally tell us who the Author is writing to , what its about , what the central theme is and the timeline .
Why do some take transitional books such as Acts and use it for doctrine? Why do they do this for the 4 gospels ? Why do some not see the new testament begins with the death of Christ and not the book of Matthew ? why do some not distinguish between the Old and the new ? Why do some not see ,even though Jesus says so, that he came for the lost SHEEP of the house of Israel ? Why do some think the disciples were preaching and understood the death , burial and resurrection before the cross, when literally the bible says they did not understand ANY of those things ?
Why? Well its not because of the bible.
 
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throughfaith

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#19
Aug 4, 2020
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#19
phil36 said:
Who decides which parts of the bible aren't being spoken to you? Isn't that what cults do...?
Click to expand...
Cults do not worry about rightly dividing. They have their doctrines prior to approaching the bible and the bible needs to ' fit ' . This is Calvinism also . Every Cult takes verses out of context from the 4 gospels and applies them to themselves ..They all take the book of Acts as doctrine. They all take verses for Israel for them . And without fail ,believe that you have to endure till the end to be saved .
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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#20
Aug 3, 2018
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#20
^ Right.

"CORRECTLY APPORTIONING the word of truth" (2Tim2:15) is what we are supposed to be understanding (... I'm not saying we grasp all of it the moment we come to faith / are first saved).



[many ppl just want to blur it altogether into one mish-mash of mush ;) ... thus completely mis-apply many passages...]
 
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