Born Again twice?

Wall · Dec 7, 2020

Being born again and what you call the rapture is one single event

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

John3 and Job14 are speaking of the same event. Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again? After the heavens be no more, says Job. Then will his "change" come. The changing found in 1Cor.15 {in the twinkling of an eye}

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. When Jesus returns

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

I know this will upset the Rapturist but "we shall all be changed" at the coming of the Day of the Lord as the heavens pass away {If you believe Job}. At this time we are born again (corruptible puts on incorruption) and will be gathered {meet the Lord in the air} and then its off to the kingdom rest

KJV1611 · Dec 7, 2020

Wall said:

Being born again and what you call the rapture is one single event

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

John3 and Job14 are speaking of the same event. Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again? After the heavens be no more, says Job. Then will his "change" come. The changing found in 1Cor.15 {in the twinkling of an eye}

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. When Jesus returns

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

I know this will upset the Rapturist but "we shall all be changed" at the coming of the Day of the Lord as the heavens pass away {If you believe Job}. At this time we are born again (corruptible puts on incorruption) and will be gathered {meet the Lord in the air} and then its off to the kingdom rest

You have gotten "born again" mixed up with the "rapture". Jesus told Nicodemus that born again is an earthly thing not a heavenly thing.

Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Wall · Dec 7, 2020

KJV1611 said:

So what is this heavenly thing God is telling us? Read the very next line.

John 3:12-13 (KJV)
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Will verse 13 disappear from your bible when Darbys rapture takes place?

KJV1611 · Dec 7, 2020

Wall said:

I don't believe in the rapture heresy. What they call the rapture is our translation from an earthly body to our spirit bodies.

Wall · Jan 23, 2021

KJV1611 said:

1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY. ........
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Phil.3{21}
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,

I agree

1PETER1
[4] To AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto SALVATION READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, EVEN THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

And you can see when we are born again

oyster67 · Jan 23, 2021

Wall said:

We are born again and become new creatures in Christ the hour we first believe. We are not glorified until the time of the Rapture, which is yet future.

Nehemiah6 · Jan 23, 2021

Wall said:

Is this an off the *Wall* (bizarre) comment since it is totally incorrect and misleading?

The New Birth is not the Rapture, but it is a supernatural birth when a person is born of God, born of the Spirit, or born from above. It is also called regeneration. And the *seed* of the New Birth is the Word of God (the Gospel).

throughfaith · Jan 23, 2021

I literally don't understand this post ? Is this a new doctrine ?

Wall · Jan 23, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

OK
Matthew 19:27-28 (KJV)
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So when will Jesus be sitting on the throne of His glory and when will the 12 tribes be judged? Hasnt happened yet.

throughfaith · Jan 23, 2021

Wall said:

OK
Matthew 19:27-28 (KJV)
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So when will Jesus be sitting on the throne of His glory and when will the 12 tribes be judged? Hasnt happened yet.

Why are you quoting an old testament verse about the diciples ?

Wall · Jan 23, 2021

throughfaith said:

Im just posting scriptures. Not new. Been there.

Wall · Jan 23, 2021

throughfaith said:

Matt. is not old testament

throughfaith · Jan 23, 2021

Wall said:

Yes it is ,until chapter 27 .

throughfaith · Jan 23, 2021

Wall said:

If you do not realise Matthew is old testament till chapter 27.50 then everything you say will be off base

Wall · Jan 23, 2021

Never heard that one before. I literally don't understand. Is this a new doctrine ?

throughfaith · Jan 23, 2021

Wall said:

Heb 9 .
16¶For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18Whereupon neither the first testamentas dedicated without blood.
The new testament begins with Jesus s death . Not the book of Matthew. This is the problem with denominations today . Not a clue .

Wall · Jan 23, 2021

throughfaith said:

OK. I see what your sayin. And your right. But even so, why would it be wrong to quote old testament scriptures. Do you think Jesus came along to start a new religion or fulfill the old?

throughfaith · Jan 23, 2021

Wall said:

He came For the lost sheep of the house of Israel ..Then they rejected him up until there final rejection in Acts 7 with the stoning of Stephen..possibly even after this .

Pilgrimshope · Jan 23, 2021

Wall said:

I’m not sure you will understand my words . Being “born again “ is an understanding that we have to accept by faith , meaning we have to believe what Jesus said in order to be “born again “ this understanding Begins here

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Knowing this , that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7‬ ‭

it’s about the sinner dying with Christ through faith and baptisms promise , and being made new in our minds and hearts so we don’t continue serving satans will which is what sin is .

a man asked Jesus about this . “ how can one enter again into the womb and be born again ?”

I think he looked at it like you are , Jesus answer

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

being born again is about receiving the spirit of God through faith Built upon the gospel he preached that teaches all these things. It’s not another physical birth , it’s about being born a child of God , receiving the spirit of his son, dying to our old self and living into the new born child of God.

it’s a renewing of the mind because we accept and believe the understanding Jesus taught there’s a transformation that happens that’s what the term being re born or re made comes in

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A born again person identifies with Paul’s doctrine

“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:9-10, 12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the entire Bible is about changing the mind of a person who believes Gods word. The gospel is able of and only if we will accept and believe it’s able to put away the old ways we walked in and clothe us with the truth of Gods word and teach us his ways and strengthen us making us able from glory to glory

to be born again , is to have our sins remitted through death , and be forgiven and washed clean in his blood , and begin to be taught the truth of the father and our place in his eternal
Family

Being born again is about being forgiven and then made new and able made in the image of Christ the children of God

now in this world

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re meant to believe the gospel and let it become our belief that’s what transforms us , or regenerates us as it’s worded elsewhere we have to believe the truth

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s the gospel that gives us new life in Christ the gospel by which we are reborn

“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:23, 25‬ ‭

being born again is about repenting and believing the gospel the truth from God.

Wall · Jan 23, 2021

throughfaith said:

Yeah He did

DEUT. 4 [13] And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

DEUT.4 [27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, AND YE SHALL BE LEFT FEW IN NUMBER AMONG THE HEATHEN, whither the LORD shall lead you.[28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.[29] BUT IF FROM THENCE THOU SHALT SEEK THE LORD THY GOD, THOU SHALT FIND HIM, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.[30] WHEN THOU ART IN TRIBULATION, AND ALL THESE THINGS ARE COME UPON THEE, EVEN IN THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;[31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God

he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, NOR FORGET THE COVENANT of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

The Lord scatters the 10 {lost}tribes of the children of Israel amoung the gentiles for being disobedient. The lost sheep? Look what happens in the latter days.

MATT.15 [22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[24] But he answered and said, I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP of the house of Israel.

Jesus said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel". Do you believe Jesus?

JER.50 [4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in A PERPETUAL COVENANT that shall not be forgotten.[6] MY PEOPLE HATH BEEN LOST SHEEP: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR RESTINGPLACE.

My people hath been lost sheep. They have forgotten their restingplace (they sure have). THE JEWS HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THE SABBATH {their restingplace}! Let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten (remember the sabbath…)

Well, In Jeremiah we can find the sheep that Jesus came for. The remnant of the lost 10 tribes of the children of Israel, who believe they are nothing more than gentiles. Have the many been decieved, just as the new testament says. The sabbath rest has been forgotten by the gentiles, but as you can see, the lost sheep that Jesus came for will return to the “perpetual covenant” and keep Gods sabbath day.

Born Again twice?

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