The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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VARob said:
This may not be well received on this forum
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practically nothing in the BDF ((Bible Discussion Forum)) is well received, lol.

our longest thread started with hardly more than the statement that salvation is not by works, but grace through faith, and almost immediately turned into thousands and thousands of replies arguing against Ephesians 2

welcome, again. :)
 
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VARob said:
Calvinism says God predetermined everyone's fate and that nobody has a choice. God is love, and predetermining people to hell is not love. In the end, Calvinism makes God ultimately responsible for evil. I believe that salvation is available to anyone, and that anyone can freely choose for themselves whether to believe the Gospel. God wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9)
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well i hope one day God will get His wish, and that He doesn't lose faith! :D

".. as it is in heaven, on earth"​
 
VARob said:
This may not be well received on this forum, but I hold to the open view of God. I believe God knows everything that is available to know, but it is not possible to know every decision that we as free-will beings will make before those decisions are made. In Genesis 6, I believe God was sorry He had made man (Gen 6:6). I believe God regretted making Saul king (1 Sam 15:11). I believe that it did not enter God's mind that people would sacrifice their children (Jer 7:31).

...regarding the OP and the things brightfame52 is promoting, I think Calvinism is an atrocious doctrine.
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This is interesting. It makes me think.
Is it possible also, with God knowing the end from the beginning that also includes knowing what every single person's thoughts and actions would be?
Or what if it's like this? You know when you know someone so intimately that you know what they will do, how they would react to situation? What if it's like that with God towards us?
 
VARob said:
You're assuming that in the OT it was not possible to lose your salvation. I do not agree with your assumption.

During the upcoming tribulation, it is clear that people must maintain their faith in order to be saved (Rev 2:10, 26; 3:5).
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I am not assuming anything

salvation is by grace it has never been of works

god does not give gifts to people then have to remove that gift because he messed up
 
VARob said:
I know how the biblical days worked, and I agree that David was a type of Christ.

So do you believe God first appointed a king He knew would be a failure?
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I believe he gave the people The king they wanted, and when that king failed as he knew he would (saul,was a worldly king). God showed them what a real king cooked like
 
breno785au said:
This is interesting. It makes me think.
Is it possible also, with God knowing the end from the beginning that also includes knowing what every single person's thoughts and actions would be?
Or what if it's like this? You know when you know someone so intimately that you know what they will do, how they would react to situation? What if it's like that with God towards us?
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Think of pharoah

did god put in in place and make him do what god wanted him to do

or is it God put him in place knowing exactly how he would react, and by free will, do what God needed him to do?

I chose the second
 
breno785au said:
This is interesting. It makes me think.
Is it possible also, with God knowing the end from the beginning that also includes knowing what every single person's thoughts and actions would be?
Or what if it's like this? You know when you know someone so intimately that you know what they will do, how they would react to situation? What if it's like that with God towards us?
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I think it's like your second scenario. But even people you know intimately can sometimes do something you do not expect.
 
VARob said:
I'm sure He'll deal with it. The good news is that in the end, only the people who wanted to know God will be there. The wicked and unrepentant will be destroyed.
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yeah but won't He be disappointed? maybe we shouldn't bring it up when we get there; He may feel vulnerable and we don't want Him getting depressed & He probably needs time to heal. it'll be a big blow to His self image.

or do you think someone should tell Him now, so He doesn't get His hopes up? i mean, would we just be enabling His fantasies if we know better but don't let on?
 
VARob said:
I think it's like your second scenario. But even people you know intimately can sometimes do something you do not expect.
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If it's the second scenario, I'm leaning more towards that God has a perfect knowing of who we are therefore nothing we do would be unexpected.
Though I know my wife well, I don't know her anywhere near, by any means, as much as God does.
 
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posthuman said:
yeah but won't He be disappointed?
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Yes.

maybe we shouldn't bring it up when we get there; He may feel vulnerable and we don't want Him getting depressed & He probably needs time to heal. it'll be a big blow to His self image.

or do you think someone should tell Him now, so He doesn't get His hopes up? i mean, would we just be enabling His fantasies if we know better but don't let on?
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I know you're trying to be funny (in a Calvinist sort of way), but even though God wants everyone to be saved, He is fully aware that not everyone will be.
 
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breno785au said:
If it's the second scenario, I'm leaning more towards that God has a perfect knowing of who we are therefore nothing we do would be unexpected.
Though I know my wife well, I don't know her anywhere near, by any means, as much as God does.
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This is true. God knows us better than we know ourselves. But we have free will.

God got angry with Moses when Moses kept coming up with excuse after excuse as to why he should not be the one to go lead the Israelites out of Egypt. It was not a feigned anger. It was not a foreordained anger. It was a genuine response to the behavior of Moses.
 
VARob said:
This is true. God knows us better than we know ourselves. But we have free will.

God got angry with Moses when Moses kept coming up with excuse after excuse as to why he should not be the one to go lead the Israelites out of Egypt. It was not a feigned anger. It was not a foreordained anger. It was a genuine response to the behavior of Moses.
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A fair point for consideration in the matter.
My day is beginning now, so I'll be logging off for a while and will continue to ponder.
 
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posthuman said:
ah! so He does know all things, after all :unsure:
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He knows whether people who have already lived and died were saved or not.
He knows who is saved and who isn't among the living.
He wants the unsaved to choose to believe. Some will, some won't. He does not control who will and who won't.
People have free will. God made us that way.
 
VARob said:
You're assuming that in the OT it was not possible to lose your salvation. I do not agree with your assumption.

During the upcoming tribulation, it is clear that people must maintain their faith in order to be saved (Rev 2:10, 26; 3:5).
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No one in the OT was "saved", in terms of having present salvation.

They expect to receive final forgiveness of their sins as a nation, when Jesus returns for Israel in his 2nd coming (Acts 3:19-21, Romans 11:25-27, 1 Peter 4:17-18)
 
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