Depends on "context"... if the sentence says, "you with [G4862] Bozo the Clown," then NO. 
That’s called twisting the scripture to make it say what you want it to say.
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Why is it that you’re the only translator that translates it as married. I checked multiple versions and all versions translate it the same way.
That’s called twisting the scripture to make it say what you want it to say.
That’s called twisting the scripture to make it say what you want it to say.
I said, "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with]" is distinct from "with [G3326 - accompanying]" like is used in the "10 VirginS/BridesmaidS [PLURAL]" passage (Matt25:1,10) who Jesus is NOT coming to MARRY (PLURAL "virginS"--not even "5" of them!<--THIS pertains to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [the earthly MK age] NOT "the MARRIAGE" itself pertaining to the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"... which pertains to what Paul had said in 2Cor11:2 "that *I* may PRESENT"... and THAT is at a PARTICULAR POINT-IN-TIME [not occurring at various points in time throughout time/history])
That's why I said, it depends on CONTEXT.
The context of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is the TRANSLATION of believers, not the wedding of believers.
Here's another verse (like we were talking about earlier) that speaks of what is taking place in the "NOW" :
"But the one being-joined [*G2853] to the Lord is one spirit." 1Cor6:17 [that is NOW... in the "NOW"]
[*G2853 same word as found in Matthew 19:5 ("[a man shall leave...] and [shall] be joined [G2853] to the wife of him")... but here ^ it is referring to "spirit" (rather than "bodily/physically," at this point/in this present age)]
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Paul's use of "that *I* may PRESENT..." refers to a particular point-in-time, when the Body[/Bride] is complete (that is, ALL those saved "in this present age [SINGULAR]")
"But the one being-joined [*G2853] to the Lord is one spirit." 1Cor6:17 [that is NOW... in the "NOW"]
[*G2853 same word as found in Matthew 19:5 ("[a man shall leave...] and [shall] be joined [G2853] to the wife of him")... but here ^ it is referring to "spirit" (rather than "bodily/physically," at this point/in this present age)]
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Paul's use of "that *I* may PRESENT..." refers to a particular point-in-time, when the Body[/Bride] is complete (that is, ALL those saved "in this present age [SINGULAR]")
1Th2:19 "For who is our hope or joy or crown of boasting? Or are not even you, before our Lord Jesus at [en - G1722] His coming?" [<--comp. wording in 2Th2:1... where it also says, "our episynagoges [noun] UNTO HIM" (this is "the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR" that we will be "caught up TOGETHER" to, at the same time / the same point-in-time [bodily--new/glorified/perfected bodies, that is ])]
])]To your first question, let me make a short summary of my timeline. I'll use fictitious calendar years, just to make the point
To your second question I have the same problem as you. But I think the answer is in verse 5, in the word "prevailed". "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." The words "hath prevailed" imply a dispute, or an argument in which one is victorious. It would seem, and I cannot prove this, that God set a standard for anyone to be worthy. A time passes in which heaven waits to see who will claim this worthiness. After a suitable wait, our Lord steps forth in His dual capacity as (i) King of Israel by Covenant between God and David, and (ii) firstborn of creation, making Him the Root of David. But we must then ask; Why these ranks and not one of the many other high ranks of our Lord Jesus?
I cannot answer. I can only surmise that the events that precipitate the Great Tribulation take place in Jerusalem - "the City of the Great King ... where Jesus was crucified". I say this because the following verse alludes to Him being the Lamb and being slain. It was Pontius Pilate, representative of Rome, who ordered a placard on the cross "King of the Jews". In 30 AD therefore, it was Jerusalem verses Rome. The Abomination of Desolation is again Rome verses Jerusalem. And again it is Caesar verses Jesus. Pilate, who should have represented Rome, agreed that Jesus was of David's House. But this time, Jesus comes, not as the suffering Son of Joseph, but the rampaging LION of Judah. It is from this Seat that Jesus will rule the world after His return (Zech.14:16).
- 1,500 BC - Law is given to Israel
- 720 BC - ten northern Tribes carried away
- 600 BC - two southern Tribes carried away
- 530 BC - 2.5% of Judah and Benjamin return to rebuild Temple and later the City
- 4 BC Jesus is born
- 30 AD Jesus is murdered
- 70 AD Judah and Benjamin dispersed
- 70 AD - 2030 AD Israel chastised
- 2030 Israel, a new State, embrace the Beast and allow him into the Holy Place
- 2033 Second coming of the Lord, Armageddon, and Israel resurrected and gathered (Ezek.37)
- 2034 - 2130 Millennial Kingdom (Messianic Kingdom) ON EARTH
- 2131 -2140 Magog gathers an army and rebels, is defeated and God has White Throne Judgment
- 2141 - the "ages to come" on the New (Renewed - lit. Gk.) Earth
To your second question I have the same problem as you. But I think the answer is in verse 5, in the word "prevailed". "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." The words "hath prevailed" imply a dispute, or an argument in which one is victorious. It would seem, and I cannot prove this, that God set a standard for anyone to be worthy. A time passes in which heaven waits to see who will claim this worthiness. After a suitable wait, our Lord steps forth in His dual capacity as (i) King of Israel by Covenant between God and David, and (ii) firstborn of creation, making Him the Root of David. But we must then ask; Why these ranks and not one of the many other high ranks of our Lord Jesus?
I cannot answer. I can only surmise that the events that precipitate the Great Tribulation take place in Jerusalem - "the City of the Great King ... where Jesus was crucified". I say this because the following verse alludes to Him being the Lamb and being slain. It was Pontius Pilate, representative of Rome, who ordered a placard on the cross "King of the Jews". In 30 AD therefore, it was Jerusalem verses Rome. The Abomination of Desolation is again Rome verses Jerusalem. And again it is Caesar verses Jesus. Pilate, who should have represented Rome, agreed that Jesus was of David's House. But this time, Jesus comes, not as the suffering Son of Joseph, but the rampaging LION of Judah. It is from this Seat that Jesus will rule the world after His return (Zech.14:16).
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1Th2:19 "For who is our hope or joy or crown of boasting? Or are not even you, before our Lord Jesus at [en - G1722] His coming?" [<--comp. wording in 2Th2:1... where it also says, "our episynagoges [noun] UNTO HIM" (this is "the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR" that we will be "caught up TOGETHER" to, at the same time / the same point-in-time [bodily--new/glorified/perfected bodies, that is ])]
])]
When we die, we go straight to heaven. We are translated at our death.
Sorry for not being more clear... when I said "THIS... referring to "'spirit'," I was speaking of the 1Cor6:17 verse which uses the word "spirit"... "is one spirit"
... I was not referring to the "man and wife" Matt19:5 verse (though both verses use the word "joined"--same Grk word--which is what I was pointing out... so Matt19:5 is talking about a man and wife being "joined"... whereas 1Cor6:17 is talking about "the one being-joined to the Lord is ONE SPIRIT" [even now... that is, in SPIRIT]).
... I was not referring to the "man and wife" Matt19:5 verse (though both verses use the word "joined"--same Grk word--which is what I was pointing out... so Matt19:5 is talking about a man and wife being "joined"... whereas 1Cor6:17 is talking about "the one being-joined to the Lord is ONE SPIRIT" [even now... that is, in SPIRIT]).
Read again the postings I've made on 2Cor5:1-8, where:
--"UNCLOTHED" means "to be apart from the body (for a time) UPON DEATH [of a believer]"... and how we are not EARNESTLY LONGING for THAT (no one is "earnestly desiring" DEATH)
--"CLOTHED UPON" refers to "being immediately CLOTHED UPON with our glorified bodies APART FROM having to DIE first"
Once you grasp these two definitions, you can see what Paul is actually conveying in this portion of the chpt... and where vv.2-4 (esp. v.4) is speaking IN PARTICULAR of the "we which are ALIVE [STILL-LIVING] and remain unto" where it says, "that MORTALITY might be swallowed up OF LIFE"--i.e. the "STILL-LIVING" members of the ONE BODY, at that point-in-time
(just as 1Cor15:52c/53b/54b "THIS MORTAL" is speaking of the "STILL-LIVING" ones;
whereas "THIS CORRUPTIBLE" vv.52b/53a/54a[51b "sleep"] speaks of "the DEAD IN Christ"--those who will have DIED prior to that particular point-in-time being referenced in each of these passages)
--"UNCLOTHED" means "to be apart from the body (for a time) UPON DEATH [of a believer]"... and how we are not EARNESTLY LONGING for THAT (no one is "earnestly desiring" DEATH)
--"CLOTHED UPON" refers to "being immediately CLOTHED UPON with our glorified bodies APART FROM having to DIE first"
Once you grasp these two definitions, you can see what Paul is actually conveying in this portion of the chpt... and where vv.2-4 (esp. v.4) is speaking IN PARTICULAR of the "we which are ALIVE [STILL-LIVING] and remain unto" where it says, "that MORTALITY might be swallowed up OF LIFE"--i.e. the "STILL-LIVING" members of the ONE BODY, at that point-in-time
(just as 1Cor15:52c/53b/54b "THIS MORTAL" is speaking of the "STILL-LIVING" ones;
whereas "THIS CORRUPTIBLE" vv.52b/53a/54a[51b "sleep"] speaks of "the DEAD IN Christ"--those who will have DIED prior to that particular point-in-time being referenced in each of these passages)
P
And now let's conclude why it is a pre trib rapture.
As we know our God is orderly and does not break his word.
There are 2 things that we see in revelation one is another harvest of souls. As I said untill the first fruits are presented no harvesting will be done.
Also take a look at chapter 5 of revelation..... What stand out is the trumpet shout as you see in the other chapters to follow are trumpets.
The next feast after pentecost is feast of trumpets.....do you think God would start another feast without finishing the previous?
In the words of the apostle paul....God forbid.
As we know our God is orderly and does not break his word.
There are 2 things that we see in revelation one is another harvest of souls. As I said untill the first fruits are presented no harvesting will be done.
Also take a look at chapter 5 of revelation..... What stand out is the trumpet shout as you see in the other chapters to follow are trumpets.
The next feast after pentecost is feast of trumpets.....do you think God would start another feast without finishing the previous?
In the words of the apostle paul....God forbid.
Brother, you need to forget heaven. Man was made from the earth, to be nourished by the earth and to subdue and rule THE EARTH (Gen.1:26-28). God has not changed His immutable councils. The Bible ends with New Jerusalem coming DOWN to the New ("Renewed" - lit Gk.) Earth and the rule is where Daniel said the everlasting Kingdom of our Lord would be - "it filled THE EARTH" (Dan.2:35; Rev.22:5).
And to save you going back to the Bible I will quote Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18:
"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM."
It is NOT, as you say, "my Father's HOUSE!" Added to this, the "Father's House" is NEVER heaven. It is the Temple, Christ's Body and the Church (Jn.2:16, 21; 1st Tim.3:15).
You had also better check Revelation 19. It does not say that there is a wedding feast in heaven. It says blessed are the invited guests, and that the bride has made HERSELF ready. Immediately after this, these same guests leave heaven to fight Armageddon - not to Feast.
And to save you going back to the Bible I will quote Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18:
"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM."
It is NOT, as you say, "my Father's HOUSE!" Added to this, the "Father's House" is NEVER heaven. It is the Temple, Christ's Body and the Church (Jn.2:16, 21; 1st Tim.3:15).
You had also better check Revelation 19. It does not say that there is a wedding feast in heaven. It says blessed are the invited guests, and that the bride has made HERSELF ready. Immediately after this, these same guests leave heaven to fight Armageddon - not to Feast.
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pottersclay, may I ask, how do you view the following passage?
Luke 22:30,16,18 (esp. 16-18) -
"15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. [for this latter verse, compare with Matthew 26:29 "UNTIL THAT DAY when I drink it NEW with [G3326 - accompanying] you in My Father's kingdom"... and then compare v.30 (Lk22:30) with Matthew 19:28 (and then compare ITS TIMING with Matt25:31-34)]
What does it mean... "[not anymore eat THEREOF] UNTIL it be fulfilled in..." ... does this mean He WILL "eat thereof" again, at a certain point? And if so, what do you think that means (especially, time-wise... when)? and then, what does this mean for the "fulfilled" issue?
[I find the wording in Col2:16-17 interesting "which ARE [present tense] A SHADOW
Luke 22:30,16,18 (esp. 16-18) -
"15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. [for this latter verse, compare with Matthew 26:29 "UNTIL THAT DAY when I drink it NEW with [G3326 - accompanying] you in My Father's kingdom"... and then compare v.30 (Lk22:30) with Matthew 19:28 (and then compare ITS TIMING with Matt25:31-34)]
What does it mean... "[not anymore eat THEREOF] UNTIL it be fulfilled in..." ... does this mean He WILL "eat thereof" again, at a certain point? And if so, what do you think that means (especially, time-wise... when)? and then, what does this mean for the "fulfilled" issue?
[I find the wording in Col2:16-17 interesting "which ARE [present tense] A SHADOW