Firstly, you have to agree that the Body of Christ was never called sheep by the Apostle Paul.
If it was that important, do you think Paul would have mentioned it at least once?
Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"
- Thread starter MyrtleTrees
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Firstly, you have to agree that the Body of Christ was never called sheep by the Apostle Paul.
If it was that important, do you think Paul would have mentioned it at least once?
Romans 8:28 speaks of predestination to glorification. You don't seem to realize that all of these categories fall under the main category of salvaiton. Regeneration, Justification, adoption, sanctification, kept by the power of God, glorification, are all part of the same package. Believers were predestined to all of them.
How can I say that? Because how can you be predestined to glorification unless you were already predestined to justification. No forgiveness, no glorification. And in Romans 8:28-30, predestination comes BEFORE justification.
Peter saying "elect according to the foreknowledge of God" applies here. And don't say that's only for Jews, because that would be an anti gospel statement. There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile in the Gospel.
John never used the word "body" to describe the church. SO I guess the church is not the body.
In the first place, John was not preaching the mystery of the Body of Christ.
He was an apostle to Israel, together with Peter and James (Galatians 2:9)
Finally, we agree. Sin is a choice for a Christian.....if I choice to sin I can also choose not to sin
Remember Satan’s lie in the garden of Eden when he successfully made Eve believe that she could afford to sin (disobey God) and still not die. HE LIED! Looks like he is telling the same lie today!!!
We cannot fool God and we cannot serve two masters and still be saved. Remember the lie!!
Your waiting on one example
Jusas Iscariot is one example
Matt 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.—4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:—8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.—16 Behold, I send you forth as SHEEP in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. —19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.—22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.—25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?—40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
We can also read that also Judas had a ministry and apostleship, but that he fell away from them.
Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Judas was promised a throne in heaven together with the other apostles.
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matthew 19:28
I have more examples but its late and you only asked for one.
God can’t save a man unless he trusts in Christ. It’s not that he won’t. He can’t. If a man is saved by grace through faith, and without faith it is impossible to please Him. Then it is impossible to be saved without it.
Step 1 You hear the Gospel.
2) You believe the Gospel
3) You are sealed by the Holy Spirit.
4) NOW !!!!!! you are predestined to glorification.
Simple.
But it is faith apart from any works or bringing some type of merit to God on my own behalf. Like wicked Cain, who brought the fruit of his own labor. God supplied able his own offering. All Abel had to do was bring the blood sacrifice to God, which God himself provided. And God even provided Cain a sacrifice. “Sin (offering) lieth at the door”. But it’s never recorded in the Bible that Cain ever offered blood for his sin. In fact, he murdered his brother for it. Kind of like a lot of so called Christians who say they “follow” Jesus, but never mention blood, atonement, propitiation, nor Calvary. They persecute and ridicule people who follow Christ in regeneration through faith in his blood. You know the people who call us the old slaughterhouse religionists. It’s by grace through faith. It’s the blood or hell
I always have found it funny that the people who believe in Calvinism so happened to be among the elect.
probaton Sheep . We don't see Paul speaking about lost Probaton. Ones that were the Lost sheep of the house of Israel. Paul doesn't go on about sheep in the same way Jesus is referring to ' lost sheep ' The ones that heard the voice of the shepherd ect . Notice the 'sheep 'Jesus is referring to are lost .
Your statement doesn't make sense . Your begging the question. Yes God Predestines someone to something. WHEN we get in HIM ( Jesus ) God predestines that person, he NOW knows as a son ( in his Son ) to glorification. Thats the A to B . Calvinism teaches that God predestines a Person from before they exist to be converted. The issue is that ,all the verses that have the word ' Predestined in ,mention things that are still yet to happen that can only happen After a person believes .Like :
Adoption , Inheritance, conformed to His image . None of these happened at conversion. They are future .
For one who is living outside time, does the term predestination makes sense?
I'm literally shaking my head right now at your incredible ignorance. It is mind-boggling.
Judas was NEVER born again. He never had saving faith in Jesus. John 8:70-71 says he was a "devil". And as far as Judas doing miracles, so did/will those who stand before Jesus at the Great White Throne Judgement, saying: "'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers'" (Matthew 7:21-23).
Notice the "never". Not, He "once" knew them, but they fell away - He NEVER knew them - and yet they were able to perform these miracles.
Judas, like many Jews of his day, believed in a Messiah that was to come free them from Roman oppression. Not a humble Lamb willingly going to the slaughter. Only at the end did he realize he betrayed innocent blood.
A born again Christian can NEVER lose salvation, simply because:
Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one (including ourselves) can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)
The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)
The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)
The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)
The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)
Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)
The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)
The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)
The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)
The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)
The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)
The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)
The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)
The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)
Jesus said born again believers will never hunger again. (John 6:35)
You spit on grace by proclaiming it is merited. You besmirch the gift of salvation by teaching that after one believes, the gift must be earned/maintained/proved by works.
You are a modern day Judaizer. And you're a hypocrite to boot, by thundering down judgement on those who sin, while you sin yourself - every single day of your life.
Could you share some context about the elect according to foreknowledge verse please ? What is Peter telling us telling them? Who is Peter writing to and about what?