The 10 Commandments

Ogom · Nov 14, 2020

Blik said:

the commands are for our own good. whenever there is any good command we find (like the 10, Noahide - these are not bad things, i don't think) we can learn from them and ask God how to apply them.

if we had no Bible, only the Spirit, then people might start to write there own beliefs and commands down (given by the Spirit, led by the Spirit). these might be very different, but similar in ways. like people are.

Truth7t7 · Nov 14, 2020

mailmandan said:

You may not be a 7th day Adventist, but I can see that you have been drinking the same kool aid as them. So if all 10 commandments under the law are alive and well today and we remain under the law, why don't you explain to us exactly how you keep the sabbath day.

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when sabbatarians set out to worship on the sabbath, are they truly "keeping the sabbath" as prescribed in the Old Testament under the old covenant law? To "keep the sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant law would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath. (Exodus 35:3) Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath. (Exodus 16:29) No trading. (Amos 8:5) No marketing. (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19) These were commanded by God to Israel. (Exodus 35:1)

If the seventh day sabbath is still in affect today, then why don't sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD has commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it? If the sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Now who is going to enforce that law today? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? Or perhaps the Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant law, no sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

Jesus Christ was he example on Sabbath observance, he healed on the Sabbath, walked through the fields feasting on corn, etc

I dont look to the Old Testament Lawfor Sabbath Observance, (Grace)

My Holy Day is Gods Sabbath, Not Constatines Sunday

Mark 2:27-28KJV
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Ogom · Nov 14, 2020

Blik said:

because it's important to some of us, it is a sacred. also, people don't like change and dont like to be told that they are wrong. but there are many ways to look at things.

Christ would have understood the multitude of ways people view life and all the ways they don't want to change, or think, or overcome sin. there are many roadblocks.

Luke 14:

25 A large crowd was following Jesus. He turned around and said to them, 26 “If you want to be my disciple, you must, by comparison, hate everyone else—your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple. 27 And if you do not carry your own cross and follow me, you cannot be my disciple.

28 “But don’t begin until you count the cost. For who would begin construction of a building without first calculating the cost to see if there is enough money to finish it? 29 Otherwise, you might complete only the foundation before running out of money, and then everyone would laugh at you. 30 They would say, ‘There’s the person who started that building and couldn’t afford to finish it!’

Duskey · Nov 14, 2020

Blik said:

If you believe you’re saved through honoring the Sabbath then I’m happy for you. As for me, I’ll stick with having faith in Jesus Christ.

Blik · Nov 14, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

Jesus was obeying the law on the Sabbath. The spirit of the law tells us that we must be kind, compassionate, and always help if it is needed. Jesus also went to synagogue on the Sabbath.

Sunday is truly Constantine's for he made it the law to observe Sunday as Sabbath. Our week days are named for pagan gods, and Sunday is for the sun god. Constantine even had his god imprinted on the coins he minted. Saturday is named for Saturn, but although Constantine was aware that Sunday was for the god of the sun, the worship of Saturn is lost in time.

Blik · Nov 14, 2020

Duskey said:

That is something else I don't understand about the Sunday keepers. Why do they always bring up that keeping the Sabbath won't save? No one but Sunday keepers brings this up or even considers it.

Truth7t7 · Nov 14, 2020

Duskey said:

Nobody is stating that salvation is through the sabbath, a false claim in diversion.

Sunday is not the Sabbath of the Lord, its the sabbath of Roman Emperor Constantine, its that simple.

Truth7t7 · Nov 14, 2020

Blik said:

The Sabbath Is (Eternal)

Isaiah 66:22-23KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Blik · Nov 14, 2020

Ogom said:

You seem to have clear thinking about this, except that it is important to you that you change the Sabbath. There is no scripture that tells you to do this, it is only based on that Mary discovered that Christ had already risen, she discovered this on Sunday. That certainly is not saying that you must change the day of the Sabbath.

Yet there is scripture after scripture speaking of the Sabbath that God created when God created the world, it is in the creation story even. If we just go by scripture there is no question about the Sabbath.

If it is important to you to follow Jesus, then you must follow the Father for Jesus said the two of them were one. He said He changed nothing of the Father. Yet Sunday keepers insist on changing the Sabbath.

I don't think it is part of the Christian walk to make a fuss about it. But if the Sunday keepers think it is important to follow scripture, their stand on this is surely questionable.

JaumeJ · Nov 14, 2020

Jesus and His disciples ate corns of wheat. They could not have eaten corn quite yet. It had not been brought back from the new world. The word, corn, is interchangeable with the word, kernel.

If all will recall, when Jesus was called on working on the Sabbath because He healed on the Sabbath, His response was, my Father is working and so must I.

The laws, since being elaborated upon by Jesus, should be a a blessing in love, mercy and justice for all who believe Jesus, ergo any laws which are not, simply are not.

All of this has been put on our hearts, so when we read a laaw and it does not fit eh criteria given by our Lord, again, it is not.

Wall · Nov 14, 2020

Duskey said:

Both for me!

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 14, 2020

Wall said:

So your saved by Faith plus works?

GraceAndTruth · Nov 14, 2020

Beth220 said:

Why shouldn't we?
These are the laws that are our tutor.....the lead us to Christ AND good behavior.
What's to lose?

Wall · Nov 14, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

Your saved by grace

EPH.2 [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.[8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

It is by the grace of God that we are saved. Period. It is a free gift. But to whom is this free gift given? Verse 10 says that those people who will receive the free gift of grace will be walking in good works. What are these good works which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED that "we must walk in"?

2 JOHN 1 [4] I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. [6] And this is love, that WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, AS YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YE SHOULD WALK IN IT.

Youve heard it from the beginning {before ordained}. Its the 10 commandments that we should walk in. But we will fall short. We will sin. No one but Jesus has kept the 10 commandments perfectly.

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.[2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old:[3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.[4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.[5] FOR HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, WHICH HE COMMANDED OUR FATHERS, that they should make them known to their children:[6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:[7] That they might set their hope in God, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] THEY KEPT NOT THE COVENANT OF GOD, AND REFUSED TO WALK IN HIS LAW;[11] AND FORGAT HIS WORKS, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

We all know who opened his mouth in parables and who established a testimony in Jacob. Yup, its JESUS CHRIST. So according to Eph.2 Gods people who recieve the free gift of grace, will be walking in the “WORKS” that God ordained {verse 7}. But...verse 9 and 10 prophecies of what will happen to the “many”, because they refuse to walk after the 10 commandments.

TITUS 1 [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[16] THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Blik · Nov 14, 2020

Why would anyone haggle over works after the Lord has forgiven their sin and given them eternal life? You have been made perfect, as God asks you to be in order to live in Paradise and still there is all this haggling over wanting to go back to being sinful. The Lord cannot live with sin, that is why you have been offered forgiveness through Christ. Being a human, you are going to fall, it is the way you are made. That is why blood was given on the altar so you could be forgiven. But if you don't repent of sin, if what you desire is the sin, the Lord will let you have your desire only you can't hug this sin and want it and want to be free of it at the same time.

TzephanYahu · Nov 15, 2020

Beth220 said:

I do.

For all the clever arguments of scholars and the butchering of context of Paul's letters by some - I could not stand in front of the Most High and say "your 10 commandments no longer matter".

And what is so difficult in the 10 commandments for a true Christian? They should either naturally be appalled at the idea of violating them and eager to keep them as good and faithful servants.

Nevertheless, and again, their are many clever arguand butchering of Paul to fool the masses. The devil always has tried to get man to stop obeying the Father, but whatever means.

Revelation 14:12
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Love & Shalom

mailmandan · Nov 15, 2020

People who heavily push sabbath keeping for Christians under the new covenant who say they believe that Christians are not under law for salvation could have fooled me. I've witnessed numerous sabbatarians over the years on various Christian forums (SDA's in particular) make a similar claim, but end up teaching "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." Here is a statement from a former member of Christian Chat who clearly taught "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works."

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

Christians have faith in all the Lord says, which does not mean that Christians are under old covenant law.

Where in Genesis 2:3 did the Lord tell us to rest, also? Although God's rest on the seventh day did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.* The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23- Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.

God's word makes it clear that sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17).

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the 10 Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).

*Nowhere in the New Testament is the Church commanded to keep the weekly Sabbath day and to the contrary we find (Colossians 2:16-17).

I've been harshly judged numerous times over the years by SDA's and also by those who attend the Worldwide church of Christ (Armstrongism) for not believing that keeping the sabbath day is binding on Christians under the new covenant. Judged to the point of being told that if I continue to work (deliver mail) on Saturday, then my salvation will be in jeapardy.

Although the Pharisees added rules and regulations beyond what God’s law said, nonetheless, there were still rules and regulations that went along with keeping the sabbath under old covenant law, as I already explained in post #77.

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter. "No one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins." (Luke 5:37-38).

mailmandan · Nov 15, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

Jesus kept the sabbath since He was a Jew and lived under the law. Galatians 4:4-5 says that Jesus lived under the law to redeem us from the law. But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Where do you look then? Where in the New Testament are Christians commanded to keep the sabbath day? You still have not explained exactly how you keep the sabbath day.

That is the same accusation that SDA's use and SDA's even go so far as to teach that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

https://nonsda.org/study8.shtml

This statement by Jesus was in response to the accusation by the Pharisees that His disciples were breaking the law regarding resting on the sabbath while going through some fields and plucking heads of grain (Mark 2:23-28). Jesus responded by giving an example from the Old Testament that David was once in need of food and was given consecrated bread that was only lawful for the priests to eat (1 Samuel 21:1-61). The bread had served a practical need for David and his followers, just as it did with Jesus and His disciples.

David and his men were not acting sinfully in eating the showbread, and neither were Jesus’ disciples acting sinfully in plucking heads of grain on the sabbath. Jesus' response to the accusing Pharisees concludes that the sabbath was intended to burden man. In contrast with the strenuous daily work as slaves in Egypt, the Israelites were commanded to take a day of rest each week under the Mosaic law. The Pharisees had turned the sabbath into a burden, adding restrictions beyond what God’s law said. The disciples had not broken God’s law; they had only violated the Pharisees’ legalistic, interpretation of the law. Jesus reminded the Pharisees of the original intent of the sabbath.

Truth7t7 · Nov 15, 2020

mailmandan said:

There are 10 Commandments of the Lord, not 9, observe the Sabbath in grace, doing good, as Jesus taught in the New Testament, simple.

Luke 6:5KJV
5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

John 14:15KJV
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 2:2-3KJV
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 5:2-3KJV
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 14:12KJV
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

mailmandan · Nov 15, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

That simple, huh? You still have not explained to me exactly how you keep the sabbath day and you still have not shown me under the new covenant where Christians are commanded to keep the sabbath. So you assume that whenever the Bible mentions "commandments" in the New Testament is always refers to the 10 commandments under the law of Moses?

Since the old covenant law has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

The best way to interpret the meaning of John's writings is to compare them with the other writings of John. The Greek word for "commandments" in Rev. 14:12 is entole which means "an order, command, charge, precept, injunction." 20 The same word is used repeatedly in the writings of John to refer to the instructions of Christ. John uses an entirely different Greek word in his writings when he refers to the Ten Commandments: nomas. For example:

Did not Moses give you the law {nomos}, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law {nomos}? Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19; Jesus is referring to the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill"--Ex. 20:13) According to John, the number one commandment {entolae} of Jesus to the Apostles was not Sabbath-worship, but for them to love one another:

A new commandment {entolae} I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34) This is my commandment {entolae}, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12)

Notice how John refers to the "commandments" of God in his letter: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments {entolas}. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments {entolas}; and His commandments {entolae} are not burdensome. (1 John 5:2-3)

Earlier in the same letter John tells us exactly what the "commandments" of God are: Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His [God's] commandments {entolas} and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

This is His [God's] commandment {entolae}, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He [God] commanded {entolaen} us. The one who keeps His [God's] commandments {entolas} abides in Him,... (1 John 3:21-24)

From this we can see that in John's writings the "commandments" of God are:

To believe in Jesus Christ
To love one another

What are the "Commandments of God"? The whole teaching of Adventists regarding the Mark of the Beast centers on Revelation 14:12 which says that those who have the "commandments of God" do not receive the mark. Adventists claim that this passage is referring to the Ten Commandments, and Sunday-keepers cannot be keeping the Ten Commandments because the Fourth Commandment instructs worship on Saturday.

https://nonsda.org/study8.shtml

The 10 Commandments

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