The dreaded doctrine of election and perseverance.
- Thread starter throughfaith
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It's your choice, you have free will - our choices of free will for good or evil, all happens within the almighty will of God, determined before the foundation of the world. God has sovereignty. Even all Job's trials and tribulations, as inflicted by Satan, was just as much that God had allowed beforehand, and God knew his servant Job, and what the outcome of his trials and tribulations would be.
Job 1 (ESV)
8 And the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?" 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face." 12 And the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand." So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Job 38 (ESV)
4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 15 From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken.
Job 40 (ESV)
8 Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?
Job 42 (ESV)
2 "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. 3 'Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. 12 And the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning.
Job 1 (ESV)
8 And the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?" 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face." 12 And the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand." So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Job 38 (ESV)
4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 15 From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken.
Job 40 (ESV)
8 Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?
Job 42 (ESV)
2 "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. 3 'Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. 12 And the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning.
Exodus 20 (ESV)
13 "You shall not murder.
Deuteronomy 5 (ESV)
17 "'You shall not murder.
That destiny would not be a desired one. To act towards such a destiny boastfully, and not in weakness, and in free will, for an undesired destiny, does not make sense.
A lot of people might think they can take control of their own eternal destiny of bliss or damnation, and in some cases God's light is withheld.
Some people act from weakness. If the ones on which God's grace lies, are sinning in weakness, even to the point of self inflicted harm, their is forgiveness of sins, in their salvation. Your choices is your free will, it would not be recommended to one, to act, not in weakness, but in a boastful way, as if we have power over our destiny. God is almighty.
Job 38 (ESV)
15 From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken.
-
1
- Show all
Ephesians 6 (ESV)
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, 19 and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.
One simple verse destroys that notion:
1 Timothy 4:10: "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those that believe."
This clearly teaches salvation is offered to everyone, but only those that choose to believe in Christ will be saved.
1 Timothy 4:10: "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those that believe."
This clearly teaches salvation is offered to everyone, but only those that choose to believe in Christ will be saved.
-
2
- Show all