Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[OIC1965]

verses ?

verses ?

1 Peter 1:5 and 5:4.

But you’re going to say they only apply to the Jews, and Paul’s writings are for us and James and Peter’s only apply to a Jews, right?

you still want a fractured church

Should I get circumcised and become a Jew so I can be kept by the power of God through faith?

 

[OIC1965]

There is no distinction after Acts 11
15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

So who is Christ a shepherd for?

A. Jews only

B. All believers

C no one.

 

[throughfaith]

So who is Christ a shepherd for?

A. Jews only

B. All believers

C no one.

1 Peter 1:5 and 5:4.

But you’re going to say they only apply to the Jews, and Paul’s writings are for us and James and Peter’s only apply to a Jews, right?

you still want a fractured church

Should I get circumcised and become a Jew so I can be kept by the power of God through faith?

Isn't it strange why your finding those references outside of Paul's letters and it is important to check who the author is writing to . Otherwise your saying Peter, James, John ect are confused about the Church when they write to the Jews .

 

[OIC1965]

Isn't it strange why your finding those references outside of Paul's letters and it is important to check who the author is writing to . Otherwise your saying Peter, James, John ect are confused about the Church when they write to the Jews .

You mean I can only cite Paul?

I don’t know. I thought Peter was writing to Christians.

Question from post 1,162 still on the docket.

 

[OIC1965]

Isn't it strange why your finding those references outside of Paul's letters and it is important to check who the author is writing to . Otherwise your saying Peter, James, John ect are confused about the Church when they write to the Jews .

Is Jesus a shepherd for.
a. All believers
b. Only Jewish believers
c. No one

Pick one please

 

[OIC1965]

Isn't it strange why your finding those references outside of Paul's letters and it is important to check who the author is writing to . Otherwise your saying Peter, James, John ect are confused about the Church when they write to the Jews .

Peter and James did not put an artificial wall between Jew and Gentile. John did not write exclusively to Jews.

 

[OIC1965]

Isn't it strange why your finding those references outside of Paul's letters and it is important to check who the author is writing to . Otherwise your saying Peter, James, John ect are confused about the Church when they write to the Jews .

You still have a dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles IN THE CHURCH, because you say Christ is a shepherd for Jewish believers and not for Gentile believers. This is completely opposed to Paul.

Or else you say Christ is no longer a shepherd at all. Which is in opposition to peter

You’re between a rock and a hard place...

 

[throughfaith]

You still have a dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles. This is completely opposed to Paul.

Why doesn't Paul mention that gentiles are ' sheep ' ? 13 epistles and the majority of the new testament letters are from him to the Church.? He is the apostle to the gentiles after all.

 

[throughfaith]

You still have a dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles IN THE CHURCH, because you say Christ is a shepherd for Jewish believers and not for Gentile believers. This is completely opposed to Paul.

Or else you say Christ is no longer a shepherd at all. Which is in opposition to peter

You’re between a rock and a hard place...

I'm saying the sheep and shepherd analogy are Jewish . Notice the usage in the OT .

 

[OIC1965]

Why doesn't Paul mention that gentiles are ' sheep ' ? 13 epistles and the majority of the new testament letters are from him to the Church.? He is the apostle to the gentiles after all.

Argument from silence fallacy.

Paul knew that Jesus is Chief Shepherd, and he said in Christ there is no Jew or gentile.

 

[OIC1965]

I'm saying the sheep and shepherd analogy are Jewish . Notice the usage in the OT .

Is Jesus shepherd of Jewish believers but not of Gentile believers. If yes, is that not a distinction between the two? Where one group has a benefit that the other does not have.

 

[throughfaith]

1 Peter 1:5 and 5:4.

But you’re going to say they only apply to the Jews, and Paul’s writings are for us and James and Peter’s only apply to a Jews, right?

you still want a fractured church

Should I get circumcised and become a Jew so I can be kept by the power of God through faith?

It s the Jews who were trying to say the gentiles needed to be circumcised. The Jewish Christians did not need to as of course they were already circumcised prior ..

 

[OIC1965]

I'm saying the sheep and shepherd analogy are Jewish . Notice the usage in the OT .

So the Jewish believers are kept by the power of God, but Gentile believers need no such keeping?

 

[throughfaith]

Argument from silence fallacy.

Paul knew that Jesus is Chief Shepherd, and he said in Christ there is no Jew or gentile.

The argument from silence is you saying Gentiles are referred to as ' sheep ' Yet the main spokesperson to the Gentiles does not refer to Gentles as ' sheep ' . The sheep were the ones already following the Father. This is not the Gentiles . The Gentiles are described in eph 2.11-12 .
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
This is no description of a gentile who should have known the voice of the shepherd..They were too busy worshipping false gods and indulging in all manner of things. They were not like sheep waiting for the shepherd's voice .Why would the gentiles recognise the voice of the shepherd? They were strangers, aliens without hope and without God .?

 

[OIC1965]

It s the Jews who were trying to say the gentiles needed to be circumcised. The Jewish Christians did not need to as of course they were already circumcised prior ..

Circumcision has NOTHING to do with the fact that Jesus loses none of His sheep, which is where this latest tangent started. You thought that the fact that Jesus loses none of His sheep was Calvinistic

So your hyper war on Calvinism has caused you to put an artificial distinction between Jews and Gentiles in the church. Christ only shepherds and keepscjewish believers, not Gentile believers.

 

[OIC1965]

The argument from silence is you saying Gentiles are referred to as ' sheep ' Yet the main spokesperson to the Gentiles does not refer to Gentles as ' sheep ' . The sheep were the ones already following the Father. This is not the Gentiles . The Gentiles are described in eph 2.11-12 .
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
This is no description of a gentile who should have known the voice of the shepherd..They were too busy worshipping false gods and indulging in all manner of things. They were not like sheep waiting for the shepherd's voice .

So you have two seperate groups of Jews becoming one fold, and the Gentiles who get saved are excluded?

So the one fold are Jews and the Gentiles are a different organism or what?

 

[throughfaith]

Circumcision has NOTHING to do with the fact that Jesus loses none of His sheep, which is where this latest tangent started. You thought that the fact that Jesus loses none of His sheep was Calvinistic

So your hyper war on Calvinism has caused you to put an artificial distinction between Jews and Gentiles in the church. Christ only shepherds and keepscjewish believers, not Gentile believers.

The sheep that Jesus will not lose are the same ones learning of the Father prior to the Sons arrival. Theses ones recognised the voice of the Son . Because they knew the voice of the Father. This is not referring to Gentiles obviously.

 

[OIC1965]

The sheep that Jesus will not lose are the same ones learning of the Father prior to the Sons arrival. Theses ones recognised the voice of the Son . Because they knew the voice of the Father. This is not referring to Gentiles obviously.

So who is Jesus a shepherd for in 2 Peter 5:4?

 

[throughfaith]

So you have two seperate groups of Jews becoming one fold, and the Gentiles who get saved are excluded?

So the one fold are Jews and the Gentiles are a different organism or what?

The Gentiles are here look .
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Strangers do not come to the Shepherd. The Shepherd is not rounding up strangers. UNTIL all be fulfilled.

 

[throughfaith]

So who is Jesus a shepherd for in 2 Peter 5:4?

There is not that many chapters in 2 peter lol 😆