Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[OIC1965]

The Church yes . But the Church is not spoken of when Jesus says :
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
This is sounding like the Adoption discussion. It doesn't matter to you that we have a clear verse telling us what the Adoption IS ,( Rom 8.23 )
And it seems like it doesn't matter that we have a verse telling us who Jesus was sent to ,and who is sheep are .

Again, Jesus is speaking of a different time frame in John 10:16 from when He said I am not come but to the sheep of Israel

He said I am not come but to the lost sheep of Israel BEFORE John 10:16. Way before.

In John 10:16 he is speaking of future events. He will bring, they will hear, they will be one

The two verses are entirely different contexts.

You are taking one verse out of its context and placing it in the context of John 10:16

That is a really bad exegetical no-no.

 

[OIC1965]

Your jumping around all over the place. Let's stick to the old testament where Jesus said he only Came to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL that was his primary mission . TO ISRAEL . We come in because of their rejection. We come in many years later ( 10 years ) After Acts 2 . There is no Gentile sheep . We were ' dogs ' not sheep .

Where and when did Jesus say He was not sent but to Israel? In John 10?

Who’s taking verses out of context?

 

[OIC1965]

The Church yes . But the Church is not spoken of when Jesus says :
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
This is sounding like the Adoption discussion. It doesn't matter to you that we have a clear verse telling us what the Adoption IS ,( Rom 8.23 )
And it seems like it doesn't matter that we have a verse telling us who Jesus was sent to ,and who is sheep are .

Ok, so you’re saying that you’re not His sheep and he’s not your shepherd. Fine. I guess He doesn’t keep you either.

You can have that view.

 

[throughfaith]

Jesus was speaking of bringing in sheep in future tense, not past or present

Jesus is shepherd right now.

Jesus is not shepherd of some Christians and not shepherd of others.

The church is one body with one Chiefshepherd.

Jesus had other Jews that were to

Again, Jesus is speaking of a different time frame in John 10:16 from when He said I am not come but to the sheep of Israel

He said I am not come but to the lost sheep of Israel BEFORE John 10:16. Way before.

In John 10:16 he is speaking of future events. He will bring, they will hear, they will be one

The two verses are entirely different contexts.

You are taking one verse out of its context and placing it in the context of John 10:16

That is a really bad exegetical no-no.

Act 13:46

Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

 

[Magenta]

Can we agree that Jesus said He was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel? We can believe what we want . But either he meant what he said or he was lying .

Ephesians 3:7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace, given me through the working of His power. 8 Though I am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to illuminate for everyone the stewardship of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His purpose was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to the eternal purpose that He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[throughfaith]

Ephesians 3:7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace, given me through the working of His power. 8 Though I am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to illuminate for everyone the stewardship of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His purpose was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to the eternal purpose that He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Yes . I don't think God made it up on the fly . Nevertheless could you explain 24¶But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[throughfaith]

Ok, so you’re saying that you’re not His sheep and he’s not your shepherd. Fine. I guess He doesn’t keep you either.

You can have that view.

I don't believe I'm ISRAEL . I believe God actually Gave Israel a genuine offer to accept their messiah.

 

[OIC1965]

I don't believe I'm ISRAEL . I believe God actually Gave Israel a genuine offer to accept their messiah.

I agree.

But if you dont think Jesus keeps you or that He’s your shepherd, that’s your business.

 

[throughfaith]

I agree.

But if you dont think Jesus keeps you or that He’s your shepherd, that’s your business.

What do you mean by " keeps you " ?

 

[OIC1965]

What do you mean by " keeps you " ?

Like a shepherd keeps His sheep.

You believe He shepherds some but not others. How novel.

 

[throughfaith]

I agree.

But if you dont think Jesus keeps you or that He’s your shepherd, that’s your business.

All of the scriptures prior to Israel s rejection are genuine offers to accept. The Focus is ISRAEL. Jesus earthly ministry is to ISRAEL , that's why he says so to his Disciples ,don't go to the Gentiles . Paul has the mystery revealed to him . Then we can look back with the luxury of looking back with smugness of how we know it all .

 

[OIC1965]

All of the scriptures prior to Israel s rejection are genuine offers to accept. The Focus is ISRAEL. Jesus earthly ministry is to ISRAEL , that's why he says so to his Disciples ,don't go to the Gentiles . Paul has the mystery revealed to him . Then we can look back with the luxury of looking back with smugness of how we know it all .

You never read Isaiah, did you?

 

[OIC1965]

All of the scriptures prior to Israel s rejection are genuine offers to accept. The Focus is ISRAEL. Jesus earthly ministry is to ISRAEL , that's why he says so to his Disciples ,don't go to the Gentiles . Paul has the mystery revealed to him . Then we can look back with the luxury of looking back with smugness of how we know it all .

Once again, you are removing a verse from its context and putting it in a different context. Exegetical no no

 

[throughfaith]

Like a shepherd keeps His sheep.

You believe He shepherds some but not others. How novel.

In the new testament ( which you seem to be forgetting happened at the death of Christ) i rest in the promises of the new testament. That being im not only IN his hand . Believers ARE his hand. I'm sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption ( which they were not in the OT ) I'm predestined to glorification ( which no one was prior to the resurrection) I'm seated in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus awaiting the physical Adoption, the redemption of the body . My spiritual resurrection has already happened . ' keeping ' ? ' perseverance? Enduring ? working ? I rest .

 

[throughfaith]

You never read Isaiah, did you?

You think the apostles understood Isaiah before the cross? The Ethiopian needed a explanation from Phillip.

 

[throughfaith]

Once again, you are removing a verse from its context and putting it in a different context. Exegetical no no

.
We understand because we were given an apostle to the gentiles .Why do you think we needed an apostle to the gentiles ?

 

[OIC1965]

In the new testament ( which you seem to be forgetting happened at the death of Christ) i rest in the promises of the new testament. That being im not only IN his hand . Believers ARE his hand. I'm sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption ( which they were not in the OT ) I'm predestined to glorification ( which no one was prior to the resurrection) I'm seated in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus awaiting the physical Adoption, the redemption of the body . My spiritual resurrection has already happened . ' keeping ' ? ' perseverance? Enduring ? working ? I rest .

Yes, we are kept by the power of God through faith. So we are kept.

And Jesus is coming back as the chief shepherd.

Sorry your theological system doesn’t have room for these.

 

[throughfaith]

Yes, we are kept by the power of God through faith. So we are kept.

And Jesus is coming back as the chief shepherd.

Sorry your theological system doesn’t have room for these.

verses ?

 

[OIC1965]

.
We understand because we were given an apostle to the gentiles .Why do you think we needed an apostle to the gentiles ?

So Jesus is shepherd of Jewish church and not of Gentile church. Ok, then.

 

[throughfaith]

So Jesus is shepherd of Jewish church and not of Gentile church. Ok, then.

There is no distinction after Acts 11
15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.