Observations on the Book of Life

[Truth7t7]

Then you have Jesus ressurected and ascending and the many who were raised from the dead ascended with him

No place in Scripture does it teach, those raised from the dead ascended to heaven with Jesus Christ as you claim, im waiting for your presented Scripture to support this claim?

 

[Corban]

Your entire premise is wrong which is why you cannot reconcile scripture to your view.
There are TWO books.
1 Book of life - NON-believers
2. Lamb's book.....Believers

That's strange. And here I thought that those in Philippians 4:3 were believers. But Paul and his co-workers are only in the book of life and thus unbelievers by your theory.

 

[throughfaith]

Observations on the Book of Life

The Book of Life presents the contemporary student of scripture with a problem. To first see this problem, we have to investigate resurrection. According to 1st Corinthians 15:22-26 the resurrection of the body of man follows a strict sequence. The sequence is; (i) Christ first, then (ii) “those who are His at His coming”, and finally an “end” where death is defeated by all men being resurrected (as verse 22 says, and seeing as all men proceed from Adam). Searching further into this matter brings to light a sold confirmation of this sequence.

1. Christ was resurrected in about 30 AD
2. The Church will be resurrected “at His Coming” - His “Presence” in the clouds (1st Thess.4:14-17)
3. Israel will be resurrected at His “Revealing” from the clouds (Danl12:2; Matt.24:31; Ezek.37)
4. Revelation 20 then informs us that 1,000 years go by and then “the rest of the dead” are resurrected.

The problem is this; There will be no Christians at the resurrection and judgment of “the rest of the dead” since they were ALL resurrected “at His coming” 1,000 years before. Why then is the Book of Life presented at this judgment of the “rest of the dead”?

Further, it is to be observed that whenever this Book appears in scripture, it is always connected TO WORKS. In;

Exodus 32:33, “… the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.” It is WORKS that get a Jew banned from it. Implied also is the fact that he must already be in it to be blotted out.

Psalm 69:27-28, “Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.” It is again WORKS (iniquity) that gets a man blotted out of this Book. Implied again, is that he must be in it from some earlier point.

Philippians 4:3, “And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.” “yokefellow”, “labor” and “fellow-laborer” is all about WORKS. Here it is openly stated that they are already in it.

Revelation 3:5, “He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.” Here, the Lord talks to Christians. Implied is (i) that they are in the book, but (ii) can be blotted out. And here again WORKS are required

Revelation 13:8, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Here it plainly states that some people are not written in this Book from the beginning. Again, WORKS cause this. “Worship” is something one DOES.

Revelation 20:12, “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Here, the whole plot is confirmed. These are unbelievers, their WORKS are in view, and SOME are written IN the Book and SOME not. Their judgment is based on other Books of their WORKS.

There is a modern saying; A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn't know the answer to. So I do admit having studied this subject, and I do have an already formed opinion. But I still propose, for discussion, the fact that;

1. The Book of Life is a decider on WORKS
2. The Book of Life does not have to do with HAVING eternal life (which is had by faith - Jn.3:14-16)
3. Whether Christian, or Jew, or Gentile, SOME are in this Book from the beginning - and can be cast out, and SOME can be written in - based on WORKS

I see two books . The one in which decides our eternal destiny is the 'book 'in Revelation. In which a name is either there or not . All sin is paid for ,so I don't see how anyone will be in hell paying for sin.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

That's strange. And here I thought that those in Philippians 4:3 were believers. But Paul and his co-workers are only in the book of life and thus unbelievers by your theory.

I'll just post these scripture references for you to look over.
I changed my mind, these references are ALL the Lamb's book. No book for the reprobate.
I'm glad I had that little debate with myself.

Philippians 4:3 Indeed, true companion, I ask you also, help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement as well as the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Revelation 3:5 I will not erase his name from the book of life - does not necessarily imply that some do have their names erased. It simply says, to the one who is in the book, and who conquers in faith: I will never wipe your name out.

Revelation 3:5 Jesus Christ knows each name in the Book of Life, a book of remembrance

Revelation 20:15 Anyone who does not have their name in the book of life during the End Days will end up in the lake of fire.

In essence, the Book of Life serves as a testament to those saved who will enjoy eternity with the Lord.

Revelation 13:8 Anyone who does not have their name written in the Lamb’s Book of Life will worship the Beast n the End Days.

Revelation 21:27 Nothing impure shall enter heaven, only those who have their names written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. Essentially, through our salvation in Christ, he makes us pure and able to pass through the gates of heaven.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

No place in Scripture does it teach, those raised from the dead ascended to heaven with Jesus Christ as you claim, im waiting for your presented Scripture to support this claim?

"to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord" 2 Cor 5:8

 

[GraceAndTruth]

so much for "works" (0ur righteousness)

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 64:6

 

[Corban]

Hello Corban!

You are correct in that, no Christians will be judged at the judgment of 'the rest of the dead,' also known as the great white throne judgment. This judgment will be for all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. They will be resurrected at this judgment because they will have not been worthy to take part in the first resurrection. For the scripture says, "Blessed and holy are those who take part in the first resurrection, for on such the second death has no power over them. This also infers that those who are resurrected at the end of the thousand years, that the second death does have power over them. However, that the book of life is present at this judgment does not pose a problem. Just as with everything that God does, this judgment will be a legal process. Though their names will not be found in the book of life, it will be justly checked and they will be held accountable for all of their unrighteous acts as written in the other books that will also be there. It will be a legal court. If you even have one sin, your condemned. They will have multitudes and that because of lack of faith.



This is referring to the works of the sinful nature. To be clear, this judgment is not a comparison of good works vs. bad. Works done outside of Christ are as filthy rags. There is going to be no tipping of the scales by comparing works. Again, it's a legal process.



The reference to 'overcoming' is reference to the rebukes that Jesus mentions to each of the churches except for Philadelphia and Smyrna. In other words, if you as the reader are guilty of the same as any of the given churches, i.e. if the shoe fits, then repent. To be clear, the warning to 'overcome' is not in reference to enduring the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. If a reader is guilty of abandoning their first love, then confess it and repent. Sexual immorality is mentioned at least 3 times in the letters to the churches, which I am sure that many can relate to as needing to overcome that sin.



This same information can be found in Revelation 17:8. It demonstrates that there were names that were not written in the book of life and there were names that were written. And those names written and not written took place before the world began. It demonstrates that God is the one who is doing the calling and saving. Those whose names were not written in the book of life before the world began throughout all of history, will be those who will not respond to God and that because He did not foreknow them, nor predestine them for eternal life. Oh you say, 'that is unfair!' No, it isn't. And the reason that it isn't unfair, is because all have sinned and all fall short of God's righteous standards We, even believers, are are worthy of eternal condemnation. But, God in His grace, mercy and love provided a way to save those whom He chose before the world began.



The above is the great white throne judgment. The final judgment which takes place at the end of the thousand years. The church will have already been judged at the Bema seat of Christ after being resurrected prior to the tribulation period, which is initiated at the opening of the fist seal. We will not be judged for sin, because Jesus was already held accountable for every believers sins. We will however be rewarded for our good works and will suffer loss of rewards.

Those who are resurrected at the great white throne will have died in their sins and are condemned. However, they will still go through the legal court proceedings. Regarding this judgment Jesus said, "every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account on the day of judgment." In opposition, for those who are in Christ, if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness. Through Christ believers will be presented spotless.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject

Thank you for your comprehensive and well thought out answer. I would say that we are al,ost on the same page. I have no real objection to the most of what you wrote. I will address your first paragraph only. Revelation 20:12-15 reads;

12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and Hades delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

What is evident is the following:-

1. All the remaining dead will be first resurrected and then judged - they "stand" (v.12)
2. Although they are resurrected and "stand", they are still called "the Dead* (v.12)
3. All the remaining dead do not include the Church and Israel, for they were resurrected and judged 1,000 years earlier
4. All the remaining "dead" include babies aborted, infants, children, bank clerks, soldiers, politicians, kings, Hitler and Genghis Khan.
5. All the remaining dead are judged solely according to works. Isaiah 66:24 sets forth the guiding principle - mainly works that attempted to thwart or injure God
6. The Book of Life is present and is referred to in each case

The grammar of verse 15 is not "and none were found in the Book of Life". And it is also not "and few were found in the Book". It is not even, "and some were found ... ." It is, "whosoever was found in the Book". The use of "whosoever" in this grammatical context presupposes that one should have be there. It says, all men should have been there - but surprise! ... some are not. The phrase "whosoever was NOT found" means that the names of everyone were there, but somehow SOME got erased from the Book. Now let us examine two the examples of people that I brought in point 4.

1. A girl fetus of 5 months who was aborted - killed by consent of her mother. What are her works? They are ZERO. Considering the use and sense of the grammar in the verses above, what is her destiny? If my appreciation of the grammar is correct, she finds herself in the Book of Life after being judged for her works.
2. An infant was on the wrong side when Genghis Khan swept through its village. One of the soldiers smashes its head against the doorpost. What is its fate at the White Throne? She/he is pre-written in the Book of Life, but no works are found in the Books of Works. She is one of "whosoever" was found in the Book of Life.
3. A bank clerk in New York lives and dies. During his life he rises, goes to work, pays his taxes and loves his wife. He is honest and law-abiding, but neither fathoms nor understands Christianity. He dies at age 83. What is his fate? The criteria are simple, Isaiah 66:24! God finds him having sinned all his life in matters of temper, lust and covetousness, but he never actively went against God. Now, in this matter, a new element is added. God Promises Abraham that in his Seed "all the families of the earth will be blessed". That Seed is Christ. Judicially, Christ has paid for Mr. Banker's sin (Jn.1:29) and his sins (1st Jn.2:2). Mr. Banker is a sinner, but the extent of his sins is known only to God. So you and I cannot tell what his fate will be. But one thing is certain, God reserves the right, based on Christ's finished works, to extend mercy to who He wants to (Rom.9:15-18).
4. The politician has a higher measuring stick. He was made governor of a part of God's earth. What did he do? Favor the wealthy and rob the poor. Did he lie, cheat and was he corrupt so that men suffered. Let us not dwell on his fate. God will know what to do.
5. But now we come to a world leader - Hitler. What are his works? In everything he tried to thwart God even to the extermination of God's people - Israel. He has the blood of millions on his hands. And what does God say to Noah. A blow against a man is a blow against God. We shouldn't have to dwell long whether Hitler is in the book of Life or not.

The objections will come quickly - I know. I will be accused of teaching that you can sin and not go to the Lake of Fire. But I do not. Everyone is responsible and God is the best Judge - knowing all things. He is a righteous God, and He does not wink at sin. But in that one grand act by Jesus Christ, God reserved the judicial right to have mercy on who He wants to. None of the above 5 persons are born again. None of the above 5 HAVE eternal life. None of them are believers or sons of God. But the Book of Life - the book that decides if you may enjoy LIFE on an earth run by men who HAVE Eternal Life, or if you will suffer a "worm that will not die and fire that will not be quenched FOREVER", is present at the White Throne - AND IT HAS NAMES IN IT.

 

[Yahshua]

Scripture Teaches

(Future 3.5 Year Tribulation Starts)

1 ) Antichrist/Beast Revealed In Jerusalem As The Messiah Returned, 42 Months Start

2.) Two Prophets Returned, 1260 Days Stand Against Antichrist/Beast, Literal Plagues Remake Moses/Aaron

3.) End Tribulation, Battle Armageddon, Second Coming In Final Fire Judgement (Eternal State)

Ok thanks.

It's a waste of time to you, because your presented defense is swiss cheese.

You really stated Luke 17:29-30 below isnt destruction of all the wicked as in Sodom, but there will be survivors, then you state it's just representing the Lords (Sudden Return), Now Thats Swiss Cheese!

The Scripture represents Lot as the church being removed, and the Literal world in wickedness being (Destroyed) and (ALL MEANS ALL)

In Love!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Ok thanks, Truth7t7.

 

[Corban]

Sorry I should have clarified I don't see three resurrections in revelation unless I missed the last one it has been a while since I read revelation I am currently on re reading exodus. But my main issue was the interpretation of the book of life and it being about works

I know it is a lot to ask, but may I suggest you read my posting # 57. I welcome any objections. The OP was to show a trend, and to provoke discussion. I then answered various objections and then gave the answer in posting # 57. After that, I answered various objections. In my postings where I explain (or attempt to explain) something, I try for at least a fact per sentence. So some postings of mine need a certain basic knowledge of the Bible. As a young student of the Bible, some expositors just lost me. Their words and sentences went right over my head. But I just kept at it with a simple rule. If each fact in each sentence is true, and the order of facts is true, and the conclusion is based on the facts THEN THE MAN HAS AN ARGUMENT WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION.

After reading my OP. What does your logic say? Do I have a case? If it seems so, then further study is required. In my posting # 57, have I built a case for my thesis. A good detective enters every crime scene with an open mind. He has two reasons. (i) His professional pride dictates that he find the REAL perp, and (ii) he will be the laughing stock if he gets the wrong guy. So it is in our understanding of the Bible. We have to think something - right or wrong. The human mind is not a vacuum. But when new evidence comes - we give it full credence. We must be ready to drop the old and turn towards the evidence.

Read my OP and posting # 57 again, and then lay forth any objections.

Go well bro.

 

[Corban]

I'll just post these scripture references for you to look over.
I changed my mind, these references are ALL the Lamb's book. No book for the reprobate.
I'm glad I had that little debate with myself.

Philippians 4:3 Indeed, true companion, I ask you also, help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement as well as the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Revelation 3:5 I will not erase his name from the book of life - does not necessarily imply that some do have their names erased. It simply says, to the one who is in the book, and who conquers in faith: I will never wipe your name out.

Revelation 3:5 Jesus Christ knows each name in the Book of Life, a book of remembrance

Revelation 20:15 Anyone who does not have their name in the book of life during the End Days will end up in the lake of fire.

In essence, the Book of Life serves as a testament to those saved who will enjoy eternity with the Lord.

Revelation 13:8 Anyone who does not have their name written in the Lamb’s Book of Life will worship the Beast n the End Days.

Revelation 21:27 Nothing impure shall enter heaven, only those who have their names written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. Essentially, through our salvation in Christ, he makes us pure and able to pass through the gates of heaven.

A man who can change his mind is a man who will go far.

Go well bro.

 

[Yahshua]

But there is more. The structure of scripture is known to be heptadic. And once again scholars are not united in exact figures, but agree that from Adam to Christ was exactly, or almost exactly, 4,000 years. And Acts 15:14-16 gives the time for Israel's restoration as when the Church is completed. But Hosea 6:2 gives the same time as "2 days". Thus, if we interpret scripture with scripture (for private interpretation is forbidden - 2nd Pet.1.20), there is only 1 day that two of them could possibly fit the Church age - 2,000 years (Ps.90:4, 2nd Pet.3:8). Thus, Adam to Christ's first advent is 4,000 years, or 4 days, and the Church age is 2,000 years, or 2 days. Thus, a precedent is set for the future REST in Hebrews 3 and 4. The future Sabbath Rest must be 1,000 years - giving the total fr God's full restoration as 7 - 1,000 year days

Have you ever come across the following study or a study similar to it showing that the Almighty is fulfilling the themes of creation week in the corresponding millennia of man?

-----

Isaiah 46:9-10 [brackets mine]
Remember the former things of old: for I am [Yah], and there is none else; I am [Yah], and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning [i.e. declaring the end from “bereshit” (from Genesis)] and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night

2 Peter3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


If taken literally, the end was told from Genesis. The Almighty has been fulfilling His plan of creation week, theme by theme, within each millennium of mankind. And if we use the times and dates given in scriptures, starting with the firstborns of Genesis, we can confirm this pretty accurately.


Day 1 (Gen 1:3-5)
…God saw that the light WAS good, and he separated the light from darkness …the first Day.

Day 1 Fulfillment (Gen 2:17; 5:5)
2:17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the DAY that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die...5:5And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

1st Millennium of mankind begins with Adam (years 1-1000)
- Adam ate the forbidden fruit
- Sinful Adam was separated from Almighty's garden
- He died in the year 930 of mankind; he died "in the day"; in the 1000 years of him eating the forbidden fruit. Let God's word be true.


Day 2 (Gen 1:6-8)
God made the firmament, divided waters from waters …Heaven…the second day

Day 2 Fulfillment (Gen 7:11-12; 8:13)
7:11…the same day …the windows of heaven were opened… And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights...8:13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

2nd Millennium of mankind (years 1001-2000 from Adam)
- The flood occurred to return waters together
- Waters then separated from waters again
- 1,648 years from Adam (if you count out the ages of each firstborn to Noah and his age during the time of flood)

----

The rest of the days are fulfilled just like the two witnesses above, throughout scripture, within the very millennium.

Day 3 was fulfilled in 3rd millennium (in years 2001-3000 from Adam)
- The promised Seed(s)

Day 4 was fulfilled in 4th millennium (in years 3001-4000 from Adam)
- The birth of the Messiah; Sun of Righteousness
- 3BC (or year 3998)

Day 5 would be fulfilled in 5th millennium (in years 4001-5000 from Adam)
- approx. 1AD - 1000AD
- Revelation's Beast from the Sea

Day 6 would be fulfilled in 6th millennium (in years 5001-6000 from Adam)
- approx. 1001AD - 2000AD
- Revelation's Beast from the Earth

...Finally to where Revelation references a literal 1000 year reign of the Messiah: Day 7, the Sabbath

 

[Corban]

I see two books . The one in which decides our eternal destiny is the 'book 'in Revelation. In which a name is either there or not . All sin is paid for ,so I don't see how anyone will be in hell paying for sin.

You address a good point. If John 1:29 says that Christ, the Lamb of God, died for the sin (singular) of the world, and 1st John 2:2 says that Christ died for the sins (plural) of the world, then why should men suffer for their sins? The answer is not simple, but quite understandable.

God is restricted, not in power and majesty, but in what He can accept. He is a totally RIGHTEOUS God, so He always aims at justice (and gets it). The fall of man did not only affect Adam and Eve. Romans 5:12 says that sin (singular) and the resulting death passed fom man to man, and verse 14 says it passed to even those who did not sin like Adam. You and I would be caught if we were God. On the one hand sin cannot go unpunished, and on the other hand how can the innocent be punished even though they carry the sin-nature that leads to death. And how can God allow the EARTH, which had no say in the matter, languish in corruption and curse forever because man was a rebel. So God requests (for it must be voluntary) His Son Jesus to die for all SIN. This not primarily to stop a man going to the Lake of Fire. It is there so that God can RESTORE THE CREATURE. Christ takes away the sin (singular) of the world so that men may be resurrected and the curse and pollution on the earth my be removed.

So Hebrews 12:24 says that Christ's blood speaks better things than Abel's. Abel's blood demanded justice and the earth was cursed for man's sake. And Romans 6:23 say that the wages of sin is death. So if sin (singular) is removed, God can raise all men and beat death.

But the sin-nature of men causes sins(plural) or "trespasses". These too must meet justice. But if the man inherits the sin-nature he will automatically and instinctively trespass. Can God punish a dog which barks? No! He barks because he is a dog. So how does God deal with this problem within perfect justice? He allows His Son to die for the "SINS" (plural) of the world and then sets CONDITIONS for applying it. God undertakes to settle the matter of sins, and the CONDITION for this is FAITH IN HIM. Abraham is a Syrian idol worshiper. How can he atone for this? He can't. He should go to the Lake of Fire. But in that he BELIEVES God, RIGHTEOUSNESS is imputed to him. Who established this righteousness? Jesus! Who benefits - the one who calls upon God.

Now we come to those who do not call upon God. What is their lot. Again, God has the upper hand strategically. He has constructed man with a conscience to guide him, and man has eaten of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Even though this brought death, it takes away man's excuse that he did not know what was evil. So the unregenerate and unbelieving man is still "without excuse". This leaves God with full freedom. If a man transgresses freely, openly, willingly and with malice, God fulfills righteousness by retribution. If the man follows his conscience but is weak, God can go either way without violating His nature. If the person has no guilt, God can set the free with blessings.

1. The infant who dies a cot-death is set free
2. The teenager who took drugs and then becomes a pusher CAN be set free if God wants
3. The army Colonel who orders his troops to rape and pillage the villages of the enemy will surely pay for it

But God is the judge - not me. Each case is different, but God knows all the facts. To one God pours out wrath, to another he may "go, but sin no more". The beauty of this whole scheme is that God, Who is inherently Good, may pour out blessings without violating His nature, and He may pour out wrath were it is due without violating justice.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

You address a good point. If John 1:29 says that Christ, the Lamb of God, died for the sin (singular) of the world, and 1st John 2:2 says that Christ died for the sins (plural) of the world, then why should men suffer for their sins? The answer is not simple, but quite understandable.

God is restricted, not in power and majesty, but in what He can accept. He is a totally RIGHTEOUS God, so He always aims at justice (and gets it). The fall of man did not only affect Adam and Eve. Romans 5:12 says that sin (singular) and the resulting death passed fom man to man, and verse 14 says it passed to even those who did not sin like Adam. You and I would be caught if we were God. On the one hand sin cannot go unpunished, and on the other hand how can the innocent be punished even though they carry the sin-nature that leads to death. And how can God allow the EARTH, which had no say in the matter, languish in corruption and curse forever because man was a rebel. So God requests (for it must be voluntary) His Son Jesus to die for all SIN. This not primarily to stop a man going to the Lake of Fire. It is there so that God can RESTORE THE CREATURE. Christ takes away the sin (singular) of the world so that men may be resurrected and the curse and pollution on the earth my be removed.

So Hebrews 12:24 says that Christ's blood speaks better things than Abel's. Abel's blood demanded justice and the earth was cursed for man's sake. And Romans 6:23 say that the wages of sin is death. So if sin (singular) is removed, God can raise all men and beat death.

But the sin-nature of men causes sins(plural) or "trespasses". These too must meet justice. But if the man inherits the sin-nature he will automatically and instinctively trespass. Can God punish a dog which barks? No! He barks because he is a dog. So how does God deal with this problem within perfect justice? He allows His Son to die for the "SINS" (plural) of the world and then sets CONDITIONS for applying it. God undertakes to settle the matter of sins, and the CONDITION for this is FAITH IN HIM. Abraham is a Syrian idol worshiper. How can he atone for this? He can't. He should go to the Lake of Fire. But in that he BELIEVES God, RIGHTEOUSNESS is imputed to him. Who established this righteousness? Jesus! Who benefits - the one who calls upon God.

Now we come to those who do not call upon God. What is their lot. Again, God has the upper hand strategically. He has constructed man with a conscience to guide him, and man has eaten of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Even though this brought death, it takes away man's excuse that he did not know what was evil. So the unregenerate and unbelieving man is still "without excuse". This leaves God with full freedom. If a man transgresses freely, openly, willingly and with malice, God fulfills righteousness by retribution. If the man follows his conscience but is weak, God can go either way without violating His nature. If the person has no guilt, God can set the free with blessings.

1. The infant who dies a cot-death is set free
2. The teenager who took drugs and then becomes a pusher CAN be set free if God wants
3. The army Colonel who orders his troops to rape and pillage the villages of the enemy will surely pay for it

But God is the judge - not me. Each case is different, but God knows all the facts. To one God pours out wrath, to another he may "go, but sin no more". The beauty of this whole scheme is that God, Who is inherently Good, may pour out blessings without violating His nature, and He may pour out wrath were it is due without violating justice.

Just as God loved David and never rejected His chosen one, though David committed murder and adultery.

 

[Corban]

Have you ever come across the following study or a study similar to it showing that the Almighty is fulfilling the themes of creation week in the corresponding millennia of man?

-----

Isaiah 46:9-10 [brackets mine]
Remember the former things of old: for I am [Yah], and there is none else; I am [Yah], and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning [i.e. declaring the end from “bereshit” (from Genesis)] and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night

2 Peter3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


If taken literally, the end was told from Genesis. The Almighty has been fulfilling His plan of creation week, theme by theme, within each millennium of mankind. And if we use the times and dates given in scriptures, starting with the firstborns of Genesis, we can confirm this pretty accurately.


Day 1 (Gen 1:3-5)
…God saw that the light WAS good, and he separated the light from darkness …the first Day.

Day 1 Fulfillment (Gen 2:17; 5:5)
2:17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the DAY that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die...5:5And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

1st Millennium of mankind begins with Adam (years 1-1000)
- Adam ate the forbidden fruit
- Sinful Adam was separated from Almighty's garden
- He died in the year 930 of mankind; he died "in the day"; in the 1000 years of him eating the forbidden fruit. Let God's word be true.


Day 2 (Gen 1:6-8)
God made the firmament, divided waters from waters …Heaven…the second day

Day 2 Fulfillment (Gen 7:11-12; 8:13)
7:11…the same day …the windows of heaven were opened… And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights...8:13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

2nd Millennium of mankind (years 1001-2000 from Adam)
- The flood occurred to return waters together
- Waters then separated from waters again
- 1,648 years from Adam (if you count out the ages of each firstborn to Noah and his age during the time of flood)

----

The rest of the days are fulfilled just like the two witnesses above, throughout scripture, within the very millennium.

Day 3 was fulfilled in 3rd millennium (in years 2001-3000 from Adam)
- The promised Seed(s)

Day 4 was fulfilled in 4th millennium (in years 3001-4000 from Adam)
- The birth of the Messiah; Sun of Righteousness
- 3BC (or year 3998)

Day 5 would be fulfilled in 5th millennium (in years 4001-5000 from Adam)
- approx. 1AD - 1000AD
- Revelation's Beast from the Sea

Day 6 would be fulfilled in 6th millennium (in years 5001-6000 from Adam)
- approx. 1001AD - 2000AD
- Revelation's Beast from the Earth

...Finally to where Revelation references a literal 1000 year reign of the Messiah: Day 7, the Sabbath

I have not seen or done this study, but it certainly seems to have merit. I'm going to read it through again tomorrow. There are so many shadows and types hidden in God's Word that we may ask, will we live long enough to enjoy them all? I think that we have only seen a fraction of what God wnats to reveal in His Word.

Here's a titbit for you - God will restore the creature. That is why, at a number of decisive crises, we find the FOUR creatures - man, ox, lion and eagle. They are the guarantee that God, although about to exercise judgement, will ultimately restore His creature. But God made SIX creatures - man at the head, wild beats, domestic beasts, birds, fish and creeping things. Why then is His guarantee only FOUR of them. Because there is no restoration for fish and the Serpent. On New Earth there is no sea, and the Creeping thing is forever cursed. The fish did not do anything specific to lose restoration, but they and the sea represent death - and there is no death on New Earth.

Needless to say, these same creatures appear again as facets of Christ in the four gospels. In Matthew Jesus is King - a Lion. In Mark Jesus is a Slave-Server - depicted by an ox. In Luke, our Lord's humanity is emphasized - a Man. And in John His deity is revealed. He is heavenly - like an eagle.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Sorry I should have clarified I don't see three resurrections in revelation unless I missed the last one it has been a while since I read revelation I am currently on re reading exodus. But my main issue was the interpretation of the book of life and it being about works

Hi Blain!

Just to be clear, the works that the unrighteous dead will be judged for is referring to their works of the sinful nature. It's not going to be a comparison of good works vs. bad works with the ability to be saved if your good works outweigh the bad. As I posted previously, even one sin not covered will get you into the lake of fire. And our works outside of our covenant in Christ are as filthy rags.`

I would also point out that the spirits of the unrighteous dead will be released from Hades, which is the same place that the rich man went where he was in torment in flame. That said, Verse 14 has death and Hades (personified) thrown into the lake of fire. And if death and Hades are being cast into the Lake of fire, what will be the consequences for those spirits who will be come out of it?

By the way, there three and two living groups who are changed and caught up mentioned in Revelation

The church: (Resurrection of the dead and living changed and caught up)
"come up here and I will show you what must take place after this." The 'after this' is after the church period, which is also why we don't see the word church anymore until Rev.19:8 referred to as the bride. The next time we actually see the word church again is in Rev.22:16. Rev.4:1 is what I coined as a prophetic allusion to when the church is gathered in relation to the chronological order of Revelation.

The two witnesses: (Resurrection)
"But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on."

The Male Child/144,000: (the living changed and caught up)
"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne." The 'Male Child' is a collective name representing a 144,000 believing Israelites who come out of the unbelieving nation of Israel, ergo, gives birth to.

The great tribulation saints: (Resurrection)
"They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

"Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."

The first harvest in Revelation 14 appears to be a resurrection, but there is just not enough information to expound on. It could be the resurrection of the OT saints of Israel.

 

[Truth7t7]

I know it is a lot to ask, but may I suggest you read my posting # 57. I welcome any objections. The OP was to show a trend, and to provoke discussion. I then answered various objections and then gave the answer in posting # 57. After that, I answered various objections. In my postings where I explain (or attempt to explain) something, I try for at least a fact per sentence. So some postings of mine need a certain basic knowledge of the Bible. As a young student of the Bible, some expositors just lost me. Their words and sentences went right over my head. But I just kept at it with a simple rule. If each fact in each sentence is true, and the order of facts is true, and the conclusion is based on the facts THEN THE MAN HAS AN ARGUMENT WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION.

After reading my OP. What does your logic say? Do I have a case? If it seems so, then further study is required. In my posting # 57, have I built a case for my thesis. A good detective enters every crime scene with an open mind. He has two reasons. (i) His professional pride dictates that he find the REAL perp, and (ii) he will be the laughing stock if he gets the wrong guy. So it is in our understanding of the Bible. We have to think something - right or wrong. The human mind is not a vacuum. But when new evidence comes - we give it full credence. We must be ready to drop the old and turn towards the evidence.

Read my OP and posting # 57 again, and then lay forth any objections.

Go well bro.

Do you believe in a literal (Hell)?

 

[Truth7t7]

It's the same exact order in Zechariah 14:1-19
1) The day of the Lord comes...
2) The curse (of fire) will consume eyes and tongues
3) Any of the heathen - who remains of the nations - must come to Jerusalem to celebrate tabernacles or will be punished with no rain.

As the scripture clearly below, those that escape and remain are all the righteous, whose names are in the book of life, (Written Among The Living)

Isaiah 4:2-4KJV
2 In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hi Blain!

Just to be clear, the works that the unrighteous dead will be judged for is referring to their works of the sinful nature. It's not going to be a comparison of good works vs. bad works with the ability to be saved if your good works outweigh the bad. As I posted previously, even one sin not covered will get you into the lake of fire. And our works outside of our covenant in Christ are as filthy rags.`

I would also point out that the spirits of the unrighteous dead will be released from Hades, which is the same place that the rich man went where he was in torment in flame. That said, Verse 14 has death and Hades (personified) thrown into the lake of fire. And if death and Hades are being cast into the Lake of fire, what will be the consequences for those spirits who will be come out of it?

By the way, there three and two living groups who are changed and caught up mentioned in Revelation

The church: (Resurrection of the dead and living changed and caught up)
"come up here and I will show you what must take place after this." The 'after this' is after the church period, which is also why we don't see the word church anymore until Rev.19:8 referred to as the bride. The next time we actually see the word church again is in Rev.22:16. Rev.4:1 is what I coined as a prophetic allusion to when the church is gathered in relation to the chronological order of Revelation.

The two witnesses: (Resurrection)
"But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on."

The Male Child/144,000: (the living changed and caught up)
"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne." The 'Male Child' is a collective name representing a 144,000 believing Israelites who come out of the unbelieving nation of Israel, ergo, gives birth to.

The great tribulation saints: (Resurrection)
"They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

"Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."

The first harvest in Revelation 14 appears to be a resurrection, but there is just not enough information to expound on. It could be the resurrection of the OT saints of Israel.

Gods words below clearly teaches of one future resurrection of all, and this takes place on the last day, at the time of Final judgement.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Blain]

Hi Blain!

Just to be clear, the works that the unrighteous dead will be judged for is referring to their works of the sinful nature. It's not going to be a comparison of good works vs. bad works with the ability to be saved if your good works outweigh the bad. As I posted previously, even one sin not covered will get you into the lake of fire. And our works outside of our covenant in Christ are as filthy rags.`

I would also point out that the spirits of the unrighteous dead will be released from Hades, which is the same place that the rich man went where he was in torment in flame. That said, Verse 14 has death and Hades (personified) thrown into the lake of fire. And if death and Hades are being cast into the Lake of fire, what will be the consequences for those spirits who will be come out of it?

By the way, there three and two living groups who are changed and caught up mentioned in Revelation

The church: (Resurrection of the dead and living changed and caught up)
"come up here and I will show you what must take place after this." The 'after this' is after the church period, which is also why we don't see the word church anymore until Rev.19:8 referred to as the bride. The next time we actually see the word church again is in Rev.22:16. Rev.4:1 is what I coined as a prophetic allusion to when the church is gathered in relation to the chronological order of Revelation.

The two witnesses: (Resurrection)
"But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on."

The Male Child/144,000: (the living changed and caught up)
"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne." The 'Male Child' is a collective name representing a 144,000 believing Israelites who come out of the unbelieving nation of Israel, ergo, gives birth to.

The great tribulation saints: (Resurrection)
"They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

"Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."

The first harvest in Revelation 14 appears to be a resurrection, but there is just not enough information to expound on. It could be the resurrection of the OT saints of Israel.

Oh I see I misunderstood then, I thought he was speaking of the living and righteous people not the unclean spirits, also thank you for such an informative explaination of these things your wisdom is always appreciated

 

[Blain]

I know it is a lot to ask, but may I suggest you read my posting # 57. I welcome any objections. The OP was to show a trend, and to provoke discussion. I then answered various objections and then gave the answer in posting # 57. After that, I answered various objections. In my postings where I explain (or attempt to explain) something, I try for at least a fact per sentence. So some postings of mine need a certain basic knowledge of the Bible. As a young student of the Bible, some expositors just lost me. Their words and sentences went right over my head. But I just kept at it with a simple rule. If each fact in each sentence is true, and the order of facts is true, and the conclusion is based on the facts THEN THE MAN HAS AN ARGUMENT WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION.

After reading my OP. What does your logic say? Do I have a case? If it seems so, then further study is required. In my posting # 57, have I built a case for my thesis. A good detective enters every crime scene with an open mind. He has two reasons. (i) His professional pride dictates that he find the REAL perp, and (ii) he will be the laughing stock if he gets the wrong guy. So it is in our understanding of the Bible. We have to think something - right or wrong. The human mind is not a vacuum. But when new evidence comes - we give it full credence. We must be ready to drop the old and turn towards the evidence.

Read my OP and posting # 57 again, and then lay forth any objections.

Go well bro.

Honestly I would say you have done your research and have shown a great deal of understanding from post 57, the only flaw I really see in it is the entering of etenral life of unbelievers. Sadly as much as I wish there could be some room for even the unsaved to enter Jesus said he is the only way to eternal life even if your a good person and helped the jews and Christians it won't really work that way in the tribulation.
There will be a clear distinction between those who are for the mark and opposed to it and without the holy spirit people will not be able to endure until the end because not taking the mark means they will starve go insanely thirsty they will be persicuted beyond human imagining and the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak eventually all people who are not of God will give in to their flesh it is surprising what people will do to quench the needs of the human body.

I have on occasion weeped for those in this time to come I even met a man when I went to hell and had my heart tested who was being tortured by demons but he was different from everyone else there in hell he just sat there and took it he knew he deserved it. Even to this day I always pray for that man always begging father to have mercy on him and let him come into his loving arms I have no idea if I can have this but I simply cannot bear the thought of this man suffering any longer and weep for him.

But this also is why after a time of being with father I hope he will allow me to come back during the tribulation to help and serve and save people in this time where his love light and hope will be needed more than any other time in history, I didn't seek to be strong in him for myself and I am very protective of people who the enemy attaempts to claim attack or lie to and so I hope there is a way that one can enter into his kingdom even if they aren't saved but the evidence does not seem to support it and I am burdened with the compassion for all people so you would think I would fully support this but as far as I can tell even though it hurts so badly this does not seem to be the case.

But perhaps in gaining more understanding father may show me otherwise I sure hope that is the case.