Observations on the Book of Life

Truth7t7 · Oct 29, 2020

Luke17:29-30 clearly references Sodom And Gomorrah and its destruction of (All The Wicked), it states (Destroyed Them All) and shows this takes place exactly the same at the revealing of Jesus Christ?

You excuse the fiery destruction seen of Sodom and Gomorrah, that will take place at the second coming with the Lords point was (Suddeness) (Big Smiles) then you go even farther to claim not all the wicked are destroyed?

Completely re-writing the scripture

How far will one go, trying to maintain a teaching, this put it to the test.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Yahshua · Oct 29, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

Such a great question.

Yahshua · Oct 29, 2020

Mak33 said:

By sharing, I may start more of a firestorm than I have already lol. So I want to emphasize (for brethren present, ahem...) that this is based on my studies:

-Church Age = Tribulation of Jacob (the "great" of which spans 1260 years, not days) - Historicist View

-1st Resurrection = 2nd coming = Catching Away = Marriage Supper (upon us...)

-Battle of Armageddon

-Millennium 1000yrs reign (satan bound; nations taught)

-2nd Resurrection of wicked (satan released; gathers wicked)

-Battle of Gog of Magog

-Great White Throne Judgment (satan cast in the fire with wicked)

-Eternal State

*Backs away slowly...*

Mak33 · Oct 29, 2020

Yahshua said:

thank you, I asked for that sequence, pls do not attack ✌🏼 We all have views on how events would go down but we all have to respect each others perspective, since what is important is we have Christ as our savior and accepted him in our lives, we can not forced down our own beliefs on other people throats bec everyone here are Searching and the Lord deals with us individually as we also learn from each other.
Thank you for sharing your sequence.

GraceAndTruth · Oct 29, 2020

Corban said:

Observations on the Book of Life

The Book of Life presents the contemporary student of scripture with a problem. To first see this problem, we have to investigate resurrection. According to 1st Corinthians 15:22-26 the resurrection of the body of man follows a strict sequence. The sequence is; (i) Christ first, then (ii) “those who are His at His coming”, and finally an “end” where death is defeated by all men being resurrected (as verse 22 says, and seeing as all men proceed from Adam). Searching further into this matter brings to light a sold confirmation of this sequence.

Christ was resurrected in about 30 AD
The Church will be resurrected “at His Coming” - His “Presence” in the clouds (1st Thess.4:14-17)
Israel will be resurrected at His “Revealing” from the clouds (Danl12:2; Matt.24:31; Ezek.37)
Revelation 20 then informs us that 1,000 years go by and then “the rest of the dead” are resurrected.

The problem is this; There will be no Christians at the resurrection and judgment of “the rest of the dead” since they were ALL resurrected “at His coming” 1,000 years before. Why then is the Book of Life presented at this judgment of the “rest of the dead”?

Further, it is to be observed that whenever this Book appears in scripture, it is always connected TO WORKS. In;

Exodus 32:33, “… the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.” It is WORKS that get a Jew banned from it. Implied also is the fact that he must already be in it to be blotted out.

Psalm 69:27-28, “Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.” It is again WORKS (iniquity) that gets a man blotted out of this Book. Implied again, is that he must be in it from some earlier point.

Philippians 4:3, “And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.” “yokefellow”, “labor” and “fellow-laborer” is all about WORKS. Here it is openly stated that they are already in it.

Revelation 3:5, “He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.” Here, the Lord talks to Christians. Implied is (i) that they are in the book, but (ii) can be blotted out. And here again WORKS are required

Revelation 13:8, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Here it plainly states that some people are not written in this Book from the beginning. Again, WORKS cause this. “Worship” is something one DOES.

Revelation 20:12, “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Here, the whole plot is confirmed. These are unbelievers, their WORKS are in view, and SOME are written IN the Book and SOME not. Their judgment is based on other Books of their WORKS.

There is a modern saying; A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn't know the answer to. So I do admit having studied this subject, and I do have an already formed opinion. But I still propose, for discussion, the fact that;

The Book of Life is a decider on WORKS
The Book of Life does not have to do with HAVING eternal life (which is had by faith - Jn.3:14-16)
Whether Christian, or Jew, or Gentile, SOME are in this Book from the beginning - and can be cast out, and SOME can be written in - based on WORKS

Your entire premise is wrong which is why you cannot reconcile scripture to your view.
There are TWO books.
1 Book of life - NON-believers
2. Lamb's book.....Believers

peldom10 · Oct 29, 2020

tourist said:

There most likely be persons who became Christian during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ who died but rose from the dead after the conclusion of the millennium and were therefore judged from the Book of Life.

I agree that a judgement will be conducted in regards to any such works performed whether good, bad or ineffective but the works themselves don't have a bearing on salvation but rather for rewards and crowns, if any. Revelation makes it clear that to have eternal life your name must be in the Book of Life, so, in fact, it has a direct bearing on whether eternal life is secured.

I see no problem whatsoever.

...or The Lamb's book of life.

Ahwatukee · Oct 29, 2020

Corban said:

Hello Corban!

You are correct in that, no Christians will be judged at the judgment of 'the rest of the dead,' also known as the great white throne judgment. This judgment will be for all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. They will be resurrected at this judgment because they will have not been worthy to take part in the first resurrection. For the scripture says, "Blessed and holy are those who take part in the first resurrection, for on such the second death has no power over them. This also infers that those who are resurrected at the end of the thousand years, that the second death does have power over them. However, that the book of life is present at this judgment does not pose a problem. Just as with everything that God does, this judgment will be a legal process. Though their names will not be found in the book of life, it will be justly checked and they will be held accountable for all of their unrighteous acts as written in the other books that will also be there. It will be a legal court. If you even have one sin, your condemned. They will have multitudes and that because of lack of faith.

This is referring to the works of the sinful nature. To be clear, this judgment is not a comparison of good works vs. bad. Works done outside of Christ are as filthy rags. There is going to be no tipping of the scales by comparing works. Again, it's a legal process.

Revelation 3:5

Click to expand...

The reference to 'overcoming' is reference to the rebukes that Jesus mentions to each of the churches except for Philadelphia and Smyrna. In other words, if you as the reader are guilty of the same as any of the given churches, i.e. if the shoe fits, then repent. To be clear, the warning to 'overcome' is not in reference to enduring the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. If a reader is guilty of abandoning their first love, then confess it and repent. Sexual immorality is mentioned at least 3 times in the letters to the churches, which I am sure that many can relate to as needing to overcome that sin.

Revelation 13:8

Click to expand...

This same information can be found in Revelation 17:8. It demonstrates that there were names that were not written in the book of life and there were names that were written. And those names written and not written took place before the world began. It demonstrates that God is the one who is doing the calling and saving. Those whose names were not written in the book of life before the world began throughout all of history, will be those who will not respond to God and that because He did not foreknow them, nor predestine them for eternal life. Oh you say, 'that is unfair!' No, it isn't. And the reason that it isn't unfair, is because all have sinned and all fall short of God's righteous standards We, even believers, are are worthy of eternal condemnation. But, God in His grace, mercy and love provided a way to save those whom He chose before the world began.

Revelation 20:12

Click to expand...

The above is the great white throne judgment. The final judgment which takes place at the end of the thousand years. The church will have already been judged at the Bema seat of Christ after being resurrected prior to the tribulation period, which is initiated at the opening of the fist seal. We will not be judged for sin, because Jesus was already held accountable for every believers sins. We will however be rewarded for our good works and will suffer loss of rewards.

Those who are resurrected at the great white throne will have died in their sins and are condemned. However, they will still go through the legal court proceedings. Regarding this judgment Jesus said, "every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account on the day of judgment." In opposition, for those who are in Christ, if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness. Through Christ believers will be presented spotless.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject

peldom10 · Oct 29, 2020

Ahwatukee said:

Hello Corban!

You are correct in that, no Christians will be judged at the judgment of 'the rest of the dead,' also known as the great white throne judgment. This judgment will be for all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. They will be resurrected at this judgment because they will have not been worthy to take part in the first resurrection. For the scripture says, "Blessed and holy are those who take part in the first resurrection, for on such the second death has no power over them. This also infers that those who are resurrected at the end of the thousand years, that the second death does have power over them. However, that the book of life is present at this judgment does not pose a problem. Just as with everything that God does, this judgment will be a legal process. Though their names will not be found in the book of life, it will be justly checked and they will be held accountable for all of their unrighteous acts as written in the other books that will also be there. It will be a legal court. If you even have one sin, your condemned. They will have multitudes and that because of lack of faith.

This is referring to the works of the sinful nature. To be clear, this judgment is not a comparison of good works vs. bad. Works done outside of Christ are as filthy rags. There is going to be no tipping of the scales by comparing works. Again, it's a legal process.

The reference to 'overcoming' is reference to the rebukes that Jesus mentions to each of the churches except for Philadelphia and Smyrna. In other words, if you as the reader are guilty of the same as any of the given churches, i.e. if the shoe fits, then repent. To be clear, the warning to 'overcome' is not in reference to enduring the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. If a reader is guilty of abandoning their first love, then confess it and repent. Sexual immorality is mentioned at least 3 times in the letters to the churches, which I am sure that many can relate to as needing to overcome that sin.

This same information can be found in Revelation 17:8. It demonstrates that there were names that were not written in the book of life and there were names that were written. And those names written and not written took place before the world began. It demonstrates that God is the one who is doing the calling and saving. Those whose names were not written in the book of life before the world began throughout all of history, will be those who will not respond to God and that because He did not foreknow them, nor predestine them for eternal life. Oh you say, 'that is unfair!' No, it isn't. And the reason that it isn't unfair, is because all have sinned and all fall short of God's righteous standards We, even believers, are are worthy of eternal condemnation. But, God in His grace, mercy and love provided a way to save those whom He chose before the world began.

The above is the great white throne judgment. The final judgment which takes place at the end of the thousand years. The church will have already been judged at the Bema seat of Christ after being resurrected prior to the tribulation period, which is initiated at the opening of the fist seal. We will not be judged for sin, because Jesus was already held accountable for every believers sins. We will however be rewarded for our good works and will suffer loss of rewards.

Those who are resurrected at the great white throne will have died in their sins and are condemned. However, they will still go through the legal court proceedings. Regarding this judgment Jesus said, "every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account on the day of judgment." In opposition, for those who are in Christ, if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness. Through Christ believers will be presented spotless.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject

...what........"other books"....?

Ahwatukee · Oct 29, 2020

peldom10 said:

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Books would be in the plural. In addition the book of life will be there. The dead will be judged according to what they had done as recorded in 'the books.' (nominative, neuter, plural).

Truth7t7 · Oct 29, 2020

Yahshua said:

I believe Christian's will be on earth at the second coming, I dont believe in the pre-trib rapture.

The world nations will come against Jerusalem, not individual Christian's that live in these nations, ya get it?

Truth7t7 · Oct 29, 2020

Yahshua said:

We are moving into troll land now, you know well that the big word (IF) is before (Shall) as seen below.

(If) seen below isnt going to happen, because Zech 14:16 prophetically states (Everyone That Is Left) shall go up to worship, (Everyone)

Sorta like warning a child not to touch the cookie jar, and (IF) they do they (Shall)receive a spanking

However the child obeys, and (IF) and (Shall) never take place

Zechariah 14:18KJV
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Blain · Oct 29, 2020

Corban said:

OK brother, you have made several statements above, but not given a single scripture. Most of your points are documented by scripture in my OP. But one argument of yours is valid. It is assumed that the 1,000 years is literal? To this I reply that the Chapter contains over twenty things, like "witness of Jesus", "beheaded", "Word of God" and "Satan". These are all taken literally without argument. Why seek out just one of them and say it is not literal. See my previous argument for more proofs (posting # 92).

As to to three resurrections within the time frame of Revelation, I will outline six ...

Christ's resurrection. He was wounded to death, but in Chapter 1:7 he will be seen alive as He comes out of the clouds
The resurrection of the Beast. He was, is not and will come out of the pit. He is one of five, but number 8 as well
The resurrection of the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11
The resurrection of the Overcomers of Revelation 14:1-5
The resurrection of those "beheaded" of Revelation 20 before the thousand years. Verse 4 says "they lived"
The resurrection of "the rest of the dead" after the thousand years

Then, if you like, outside of Revelation, you can add the resurrection of Elijah's time, that of Elisha's time, the resurrection of he who touches Elisha's bones and at least three resurrections by Jesus Christ during His first advent. Then comes the resurrection of Jesus Himself, followed a few minutes later by those of Matthew 27:52. And then also comes those resurrected by Peter and Paul. Then comes the resurrection of the Church in 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17, and then the resurrection of Israel AFTER the Great Tribulation (Dan.12:1-2). And then, if you like, you can take Matthew 13 as true. It say that the end of the age is a harvest. A harvest, in the Bible (Lev.23) and in nature has THREE reapings - (i) the firstfruits, (ii) the general harvest, and (iii) the gleanings.

All in all, scripture shows nearly 20 resurrections.

Sorry I should have clarified I don't see three resurrections in revelation unless I missed the last one it has been a while since I read revelation I am currently on re reading exodus. But my main issue was the interpretation of the book of life and it being about works

Blain · Oct 29, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

I believe in a pre trib rapture mainly because it makes the most sense, the tribulation is a time of judgement and yes it is against Israel and all who would take the mark but we who are his are not appointed to wrath or judgement asnd so the harpazo happening before the tribulation begins makes sense.
Although I do not doubt that there will be those saved in the tribulation and thus Christians.

Truth7t7 · Oct 29, 2020

Blain said:

You provide the standard teaching in Dispensationalism.

There isnt a pre-trib rapture found in Scripture, dispensationalism uses scripture showing the (Second Coming) and resurrection,and they try desperately to claim this represents a pre-trib rapture

Prime examples are 1 Thess 4:14-17 & 1 Cor 15:50-54

Yahshua · Oct 29, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

You don't get what I'm point out. You're flip-flopping. You making "shall" 'no question' for one statement but making "shall" a condition of "if" when it's the same prophecy. You're not consistent and all to make your view fit. It's ridiculous.

Just read things for what they say and accept what they say.

Blain · Oct 29, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

There isn't a mid or post trib rapture found in scripture either The bible speaks of the event but there is dispensation in the bible God has appointed certain times certain events and certain ways of dealing with mankind.
So of course I try to understand the timing and sections within the bible because there is clear evidence of that all throughout the bible, I know better than to post scripture to prove the pretrib rapture I have been in countless debates over the topic and never once have I seen any evidence via scripture change someones understanding about where they stand on the matter I find that one doesn't have to always post scripture to change a persons understanding.

But I have studied bible prophecy immensely and one occuring theme I have seen is that it often foreshadows itself, when Pharph refused to let the hebrews go free at the request of Moses God sent nine plagues accross Egypt which are all very similar to the stuff you see in revelation but then you have the seal of the blood of the lamb and and all the hebrews were covered by it avoiding death

Then you have Jesus ressurected and ascending and the many who were raised from the dead ascended with him you have the church who were at first the Jews but became many including gentiles and they all were persicuted killed tortued beaten and even demanded to denounce Jesus oddly similar to what you see in revlation isn't it?revelation isn't it?

Yahshua · Oct 29, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

You don't get your own statements. You can't keep them straight. This is a waste of time.

Truth7t7 · Oct 30, 2020

Blain said:

The Post Trib Rapture, (Exact Same Event)

(Immediately After The Tribulation)

1.) Same Lord In The Clouds Of Heaven

2.) Same Trump

3.) Same Gathering/Resurrection

Dispensationalism Falsely Teaches Matthew 24:29-31 Applies Only To Jews, (A Lie)

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Truth7t7 · Oct 30, 2020

Yahshua said:

Scripture Teaches

(Future 3.5 Year Tribulation Starts)

1 ) Antichrist/Beast Revealed In Jerusalem As The Messiah Returned, 42 Months Start

2.) Two Prophets Returned, 1260 Days Stand Against Antichrist/Beast, Literal Plagues Remake Moses/Aaron

3.) End Tribulation, Battle Armageddon, Second Coming In Final Fire Judgement (Eternal State)

Truth7t7 · Oct 30, 2020

Yahshua said:

It's a waste of time to you, because your presented defense is swiss cheese.

You really stated Luke 17:29-30 below isnt destruction of all the wicked as in Sodom, but there will be survivors, then you state it's just representing the Lords (Sudden Return), Now Thats Swiss Cheese!

The Scripture represents Lot as the church being removed, and the Literal world in wickedness being (Destroyed) and (ALL MEANS ALL)

In Love!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

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