Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[throughfaith]

Read Galatians 1:15 again.

FROM !!!!!!!! his mothers womb . YOU need BEFORE in eternity past .
The Greek word for “separated,” here, is “aphorizo,” as it is found in Matthew 25:32; Luke 6:22; and Acts 13:2, 19:9. Not once in either Testament does the word have reference to any eternal act or decree, nor does the text say that Paul was separated BEFORE he was born (see Jer. 1:5). He was separated when he was born (“from my mother’s womb”), and he was not “elected” until he after he was saved
Again your proof texting and ignoring the context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'd faint if you ever admitted you are wrong.
penalty of sin is death.........however we are born with the sin of Adam imputed to us......spiritual and physical death.
and that is that.
Your theories are so blanketed in various scriptures out of context its a wonder you even understand your own views.

I have admitted I was wrong many times

yes Adams sin is imputes to so we are all under adam, one we commit our own sin, we are guilty ourselves

thats WHY it says, the penalty of sin is death, the GIFT of God is eternal life.

the wage of our sins is the means of death, that means of death (penalty/wage) has to be removed before life can be given

justification, (the removal of the means of death) must be before regeneration

 

[throughfaith]

FROM !!!!!!!! his mothers womb . YOU need BEFORE in eternity past .
The Greek word for “separated,” here, is “aphorizo,” as it is found in Matthew 25:32; Luke 6:22; and Acts 13:2, 19:9. Not once in either Testament does the word have reference to any eternal act or decree, nor does the text say that Paul was separated BEFORE he was born (see Jer. 1:5). He was separated when he was born (“from my mother’s womb”), and he was not “elected” until he after he was saved
Again your proof texting and ignoring the context.

No “election” is eternal, and the word never occurs anywhere but in a time setting

 

[throughfaith]

You said people are not chosen until they are saved. Paul said he was seperated from his mother’s womb. Same greek word he used in Romans 1:1, set apart to the gospel of God

Does God seperate people unto ministry while their conversion is unknown in His mind?

So in your paradigm God had no idea or clue that Paul would be an apostle until He met Him on the Damascus road. God wasn’t sure how Paul would respond that day? Is that what you’re saying?

the word election appears nowhere in the chapter (Gk. eklektos, ekloge, suneklekte, etc.).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not once does Paul indicate a difference between sins. It's sin - period.



There is nothing to forgive. Either all our sins were forgiven at conversion, or none of them were. Asking God to forgive us for our sins after being born again is ridiculous. He has already forgiven them. Why are you asking for forgiveness for what has been washed away by the blood?

Amen it’s an insult to God if you really think about it

 

[OIC1965]

FROM !!!!!!!! his mothers womb . YOU need BEFORE in eternity past .
The Greek word for “separated,” here, is “aphorizo,” as it is found in Matthew 25:32; Luke 6:22; and Acts 13:2, 19:9. Not once in either Testament does the word have reference to any eternal act or decree, nor does the text say that Paul was separated BEFORE he was born (see Jer. 1:5). He was separated when he was born (“from my mother’s womb”), and he was not “elected” until he after he was saved
Again your proof texting and ignoring the context.

I didnt say that the text said “before the foundation of the world. I was responding to your “ not until after conversion” comment. So now that that red herring of yours is removed, back to what was said.

You said no one is chosen until they are saved. Galatians 1:15 says you’re wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How much work needs to be done after conversion to prove one is saved? One good act a day? Two? How does one know one has done enough. or "proved" themselves enough?

Amen, that’s why we would all to live in constant fearless how can we love and serve others when we are continually in fear of not doing enough,

 

[OIC1965]

the word election appears nowhere in the chapter (Gk. eklektos, ekloge, suneklekte, etc.).

So God seperated Paul unto service before he chose Him? That’s a strange doctrine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Been gone for a while but I see some have learned little. And good ole' "throughfaith" still spouting his convoluted nonsense. I found it particularly funny, that the one who rarely proves any point by Scripture, is demanding Scripture proof.

OIC1965 - keep up the good work. Your points are right on! Some may have trouble following your argument but be not deterred. You are not responsible for their blindness. I submit, they could not see the truth if it stood fifty feet tall and was illumined in neon.

When people are focused on a point and not trying to see the whole picture they can not see outside of that focal point.

it’s sad, but unfortunate happens to many

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So God seperated Paul unto service before he chose Him? That’s a strange doctrine.

Lol. He is his own worse enemy when it comes to contradicting himself,

 

[throughfaith]

So God seperated Paul unto service before he chose Him? That’s a strange doctrine.

What does the verses actually say ?
11¶But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13¶For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15¶But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18¶Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

 

[OIC1965]

What does the verses actually say ?
11¶But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13¶For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15¶But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18¶Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

Yes. Verse 16 shows the PURPOSE of verse 15. Good point. The purpose of God seperating Paul from His mother’s womb and calling him was to reveal His Son in him, that he might preach him among the heathen.

 

[OIC1965]

When people are focused on a point and not trying to see the whole picture they can not see outside of that focal point.

it’s sad, but unfortunate happens to many

I was like that for years myself.

 

[throughfaith]

I didnt say that the text said “before the foundation of the world. I was responding to your “ not until after conversion” comment. So now that that red herring of yours is removed, back to what was said.

You said no one is chosen until they are saved. Galatians 1:15 says you’re wrong.

I thought you were talking about 'election 'he was not “elected” until he “put his hat in the ring " No “election” is eternal, and the word never occurs anywhere but in a time setting. The word election appears nowhere in the chapter (Gk. eklektos, ekloge, suneklekte, etc.).

 

[throughfaith]

Yes. Verse 16 shows the PURPOSE of verse 15. Good point. The purpose of God seperating Paul from His mother’s womb and calling him was to reveal His Son in him, that he might preach him among the heathen.

Are you Paul ? Is anyone else Paul . Deductive reasoning agan . God’s Son was revealed “FROM HEAVEN” (1 Cor. 15:47) before He ever got “in” Paul.

 

[throughfaith]

It pleased God to reveal His Son “in Paul” (text) when Paul changed his mind about God’s Son (Acts 9:6) and cried, “Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?”

 

[throughfaith]

Yes. Verse 16 shows the PURPOSE of verse 15. Good point. The purpose of God seperating Paul from His mother’s womb and calling him was to reveal His Son in him, that he might preach him among the heathen.

The Lord appeared twice to Solomon (1 Kings 9:2), and he did nothing about it (1 Kings 11:6). The Lord appeared to Balaam (Num. 22:20) and got no results whatsoever (Jude 11).
, it would be rather foolish to compare the salvation of any Christian from A.D. 70 to 2020 with Paul’s conversion experience. Paul was a chosen vessel for the greatest miracle‑working ministry in the Bible outside of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Rom. 15:16–19). It would be rather presumptuous to say that every saved sinner was “separated from the womb” in that fashion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was like that for years myself.

I think we all can be this way

 

[MyrtleTrees]

Not once does Paul indicate a difference between sins. It's sin - period.



There is nothing to forgive. Either all our sins were forgiven at conversion, or none of them were. Asking God to forgive us for our sins after being born again is ridiculous. He has already forgiven them. Why are you asking for forgiveness for what has been washed away by the blood?

Well, I see evidences that Paul did preach the necessity for repentance:
2 Cor 7:10

10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
KJV

2 Tim 2:25-26

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
KJV

And the passage below, in I Peter, shows that if believers fail to be diligent in keeping sin out of their lives - the result is losing their salvation:

2 Peter 1:5-9

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
KJV
And the passage below, shows that the need for repentance is not just a one-time thing - no longer needed. No, it is needed:
Matt 5:21-24

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
KJV
Also, Jesus taught the need to pray for forgiveness, in the model prayer He gave. Being a model prayer, it represents things we should pray for daily in daily life:

Matt 6:9-15

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
KJV

 

[throughfaith]

I believe in election based on God’s foreknowledge.

Kinda dodged the question there 🤔