Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"
- Thread starter MyrtleTrees
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Bible of the early church was the Tanach. They did have oral traditions, but all that we need has been encapsulated in God’s Word and the canon of scripture was complete by the late first to early second century, somewhere in there. God saw to it.
God has elected whos, not what’s in eternity past. Ephesians 1:4. It’s best to just accept that and not wrestle with it too much.
Do I fully understand election? Of course not. Anyone who says they do does not understand what the Bible teaches about election at all. I don’t worry about it. I don’t wrestle with the doctrine of election any more than I struggle with the doctrine of the Trinity, which I also fully believe without fully understanding.
I don’t need to understand something to believe it. The Bible says it is all I need.
I am saved by faith, not by the extent of my knowledge.
The scriptures of the old testament were often quoted by the writers of the NEW. How can you say they have no scriptures?
I believe in baptism. Every believer ought to be baptized unless circumstance hinders it ( like thief on the cross) I just don’t think a person needs to wait around to be baptized in order to receive eternal life. The scripture says that whoever believes HAS eternal life
In addition, if a person believes and dies before baptism, they go to heaven. Because eternal life is through believing and salvation is by faith ( Eph 2:10) not baptism
Also, Paul said he was not sent to baptize but to preach the gospel. Would he have said that if baptism was part of the “ power of God unto salvation” gospel?
Then we don't agree on your interpretation. You constantly fail to understand the CONTEXT.
I see no agreement anywhere between us.
I see a lot of scripture quoting without noting the context. If you have to scripture pick to prove your point, you have no point.
also
What Jesus says to his apostles on acting as apostles is not the same as what the disciples are given to do. We are all disciples who are born again, ready to learn and grow in knowledge of the Holy.
also
What Jesus says to his apostles on acting as apostles is not the same as what the disciples are given to do. We are all disciples who are born again, ready to learn and grow in knowledge of the Holy.
Romans 8: 28-30. Those whom He foreknew in eternity past will infallibly be saved. I agree with this, but stop short of double predestination.
There are many things that God has said that are hard to reconsile to my own wishes and ego to think my purpose is other than God's, but whether I like it or not, I always go with the truth of scripture and where it is plainly said.
Westminster Confession of Faith, God "freely and unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass."
Soooo....I do believe in doubled predestination (supralapsarian)
I believe it because the bible says so............the Creator is the Potter, (Is 29:16) who made vessels for honorable use and vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. The word REPROBATE in scripture (adokimos) means to be castaway, worthless, rejected
The question if posed in the bible: why has He done this?
The answer is in verse 23 so that His glory might be made manifest to His elect.
NO
The writers of the new testament gospels are anonymous.
We often presume the gospels were written by the apostles. Matthew, Mark....But were they?
Research and find out.
Jesus was the Messiah prophesied in the old testament and he brought the new covenant.
Jesus used many parables from the old testament to preach the coming of the new covenant. As Messiah the fulfillment of those prophecies were also part of his teachings.
Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books
In the temple most of the Jews who attended unless they were well off, and those weren't many, were illiterate. The Tanakh was read to them.
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Luke 24:45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high”
Scriptures=γραφή (graphē)Strong: G1124
GK: G1210
a writing; in NT the Holy Scriptures, the Jewish Scriptures, or Books of the Old Testament, Mt. 21:42; Jn. 5:39, et al.; by synec. doctrines, declarations, oracles, or promises contained in the sacred books, Mt. 22:29; Mk. 12:24, et al.; spc. a prophecy, Mt. 26:54; Mk. 14:49; Lk. 4:21; 24:27, 32; with the addition of προφητική, Rom. 16:26; of τῶν προφητῶν, Mt. 26:56
Acts 1:4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised,“Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth”
John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” [source:The Great Commission]
Election and predestination are really easy to explain from the bible . They are both something that only applies AFTER conversion . Not before . Election = purpose and service. This is easy to understand. I'm not wrestling with anything lol . Its barely a thing , compared with predestination..Predestination is our assurance of our adoption to come . Rom 8.23 / Eph 1.5
Timothy speaking of the Tanakh as we know.
2 Timothy 3:16 Every scripture[v] is inspired by God[w] and useful for teaching, for reproof,[x] for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the person dedicated to God[y] may be capable[z] and equipped for every good work.
FOOTNOTE
[v]Or “All scripture.” There is very little difference in sense between every scripture (emphasizing the individual portions) and “all scripture” (emphasizing the composite whole). The former option is preferred, because it fits the normal use of the word “all/every” in Greek (πᾶς, pas) as well as Paul’s normal sense for the word “scripture” in the singular without the article, as here. So every scripture means “every individual portion of scripture.”
[w] Inspired by God. Some have connected this adjective in a different way and translated it as “every inspired scripture is also useful.” But this violates the parallelism of the two adjectives in the sentence, and the arrangement of words makes clear that both should be taken as predicate adjectives: “every scripture is inspired…and useful.”
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
1¶Behold my servant,( SERVICE ) whom I uphold; mine ELECT , in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: ( PURPOSE ) he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
15¶But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a CHOSEN vessel unto me,( PURPOSE) to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
And on and on and on and on and on ......