The person is saved by the second paragraph. The rest is growth, which happens at different paces for different people for various reasons.
The fact that Jesus died for our sins and rose again is all we really need to know to be saved.
Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"
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The person is saved by the second paragraph. The rest is growth, which happens at different paces for different people for various reasons.
The fact that Jesus died for our sins and rose again is all we really need to know to be saved.
He was a Manichaean before his
Manichaeism is an extreme form of dualistic gnosctism. It is gnostic because it promises salvation through the attainment of special knowledge of spiritual truths . It is dualistic because it argues that the foundation of the universe is the opposition of two principles, good and evil, each equal in relative power. Manichaeism is named after a religious figure named Mani.
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Abrahamic / Middle Eastern Christianity
An Introduction to Manichaeism
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A painting of Mani's birth.
By
Austin Cline
Updated November 20, 2017
Manichaeism is an extreme form of dualistic gnosticism. It is gnostic because it promises salvation through the attainment of special knowledge of spiritual truths. It is dualistic because it argues that the foundation of the universe is the opposition of two principles, good and evil, each equal in relative power. Manichaeism is named after a religious figure named Mani.
Who Was Mani?
Mani was born in southern Babylon around the year 215 or 216 CE and received his first revelation at the age of 12. Around the age of 20, he seems to have completed his system of thought and began missionary work around the year 240. Although he found some support early on from Persian rulers, he and his followers were eventually persecuted and he appears to have died in prison in 276. His beliefs had, however, spread as far as Egypt and attracted a great many scholars, including Augustine.
We can see from the scriptures that the doctrines of Calvinism do not come from the scriptures ,deterministic philosophy is read into the scriptures, which such buzz words as ' chosen ' ' ordained ' Elected ' ect being used to create the paradigm . I argue that as its not scriptural then its reasonable to question Augustines thoughts on the matter that have led to were we are today. Calvinsm ' regeneration precedes faith was not taught before Augustine.
Hi,Last night, in YouTube, I listened to gotquetions.org, on the subject of lordship salvation. The speaker said that only lordship salvation saves. Anything less than that, is "easy believism" - and isn't able to save anyone. I also listened to John MacArthur in Youtube - preaching on the subject. He said Jesus and the apostles preached the need for repentance and the need to accept Jesus as Lord, in order for anyone to get saved. He mentioned a lot of Bible verses giving proof of this. He said many think they're saved, by praying the "sinner's prayer of repentance" - but make no effort to change their lives for the better. He said the word "repentance" means, "changing one's way of thinking - plans to do things differently." Both of these speakers said that belief isn't enough to save anyone. Only if coupled with repentance, does it save anyone. And many verses mentioned - showed repentace as preceding baptism and salvation - that's how the verses were worded! The verses mentioned repentance, before mentioningn all the other.
I've observed, that many evidently - true Christians believe that repentance isn't a necessary part to receiving salvation. I believe some of these Christians are true Christians. Since they appear to be walking in obedience to Christ in their daily lives. But their theology - their way of explaining it to others is incorrect. And so has the potential for misleading other people into "easy believism." With the result of their dying without Christ, often.
I talked to the husband of the home we clean house at yesterday about this, and he said that he has also noticed that many true Christians don't understand the subject the same as we do - who do see the need for repentance. He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way. He said we must be loving towards them, though we can't agree on this subject - which is true, according to the Bible. But we dhould pray that they come to understand correctly on the subject.
What I have learned in the last 5 years
Is in the way we define salvation...
Many people do not understand that we can be saved from many things.
Read EPHESIANS 2...
And asked what was the saving from in this case?
And you might find it was from trespasses and sins.
Having been quicken together with Christ.
Therefore the grace...We could not make ourselves alive and it was a favor unearned.
When one has been reconciled have they been saved from not being reconciled?
So now what can we be saved from by His Life? WE KNOW WE WERE SAVED FROM THE PENALTY OF ALL PASSED SINS and His blood brought us near.
How are we saved by His Life? [Is this speaking of eternal destiny?] OR how we are saved through His Spirit as we learn to live in His Victory over death by His very Spirit we have in us as alive, physical beings, with a heart beat.
If we through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the flesh ye shall live. [Is this salvation also] Is sanctification part of the whole system of salvation?
Another words doesn't God want to save our lives in our bodies, here on earth as we are living among people in this world?
Therefore one who mortified the deeds of the flesh shall live [have the good life partly now]
And How is this done? By the Spirit He gives you after being born from above with His life.
If God has given one Jesus's Spirit is it merely for heaven when one dies? Or getting heaven in one now?
And how is this possible? IN MY OPINIONATION it is possible by walking in righteousness with the help of the Holy Spirit trusting Jesus.
How else can stay close to have the father and the Son unless we learn to walk by the Spirit which ultimately transforms the heart and makes the out side clean to have a clear conscience before God.
Therefore the verse in first Peter 3 on the Baptism that saves us now. The resurrected power [life/Spirit] of Jesus.
Will the power of His resurrected life save you from present circumstances in this life if you do not walk in His resurrected life(His Spirit)?
So in conclusion: One born from above knows life and will stay close to it by purifying themselves by the word, by not just being a hearer but a doer. FOR IT IS THE DOER THAT IS JUSTIFIED NOT JUST THAT ONE HEARS, FOR IT HEARING ALONE IS DEAD.
THEREFORE SALVATION IS ABOUT SAVING US WHOLELY AND IF WE DO NOT SEE IT THAT WAY.....WE ARE MISSING THE FOUNDATION THAT ADRESSES THE PROBLEM OF WHY SANCTIFICATION IS BELIEVED TO BE UNNECESSARY.
FOR THE FOUNDATION IS NO OTHER THAN JESUS CHRIST. TRUSTING JESUS, NOT SOMETHING HE DID TO SECURE YOUR PLACE IN HEAVEN. EVEN THAT IS AN ESSENTIAL ASPECT. IT IS NOT THE FOUNDATION.
JESUS IS TRULY THE SON OF THE LIVING God, Lord and King. And if one truly believes this have they not truly been born from above.
All 5 points. 1) Total depravity ( Total inability ) .
2) Unconditional Election
3) Limited Atonement
4)Irresistible grace
5) Perseverance or preservation of the saints .
They all naturally flow from the T .
Leading to the P . They are logically inseparable.
It's a package deal . The issue of Lordship salvation is defined by the P in that a believer needs to persevere in holiness to be considered 'elect' . They believe there perseverance and works are the evidence of being an elected one .
Are you saying that a believer is only saved from their past sins but not their present or future ones ? if so which scriptures say this ? if this is the case we should see this crucial information all over the new testament?
Its seems we have two messages to tell unbelievers . in a nut shell :
1) Jesus has died for your sins . Believe the Gospel and recieve Jesus . ( Believing from the heart )
2) Jesus has died for you sins . You need to make him master and Lord . Surrender your life , repent of your sins , make a commitment to obey and submit to his Lordship and or continue to persevere in Holiness and good works .
I believe only number 1 is the Gospel message. Some will front load or they will back load number 2 depending . Meaning they will place the requirement prior or after conversion . The latter being the reformed position. That as evidence that you were chosen to be saved there needs must be evidence that is your perseverance in good works and holiness .
1) Jesus has died for your sins . Believe the Gospel and recieve Jesus . ( Believing from the heart )
2) Jesus has died for you sins . You need to make him master and Lord . Surrender your life , repent of your sins , make a commitment to obey and submit to his Lordship and or continue to persevere in Holiness and good works .
I believe only number 1 is the Gospel message. Some will front load or they will back load number 2 depending . Meaning they will place the requirement prior or after conversion . The latter being the reformed position. That as evidence that you were chosen to be saved there needs must be evidence that is your perseverance in good works and holiness .
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Why would something that is important not be found in scripture? Did God get lazy that he allows something to be said by a man or woman after the Bible is done that can nOT be co firmed in scripture?
I think pauls letter to Timothy were he says the scriptures are god breather and able to make a man complete is proof enough the Bible should be our soul authority
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Your first part is right, all men are dead because of sin.
taking this, you should logically understand that life can not happen UNTIL the thing that makes us dead is removed.
this is called justification, (being declaired righteous or innocent or guilt free) based on redemption which scripture is clear. Comes through faith.
thus, faith MUST precede regeneration, because justification must occur in order for regeneration to be possible
Easy believing is kinda a strawman . At best its framed as mental ascent to historical facts . At worst its described as ' signing a card ' or raising a hand. Of course this is then used to bolster the position of Lordship as the great antidote to what is seen as antinominism ,or ' how can solve the issue of church members who are misbehaving. How should we deal with problems with the church. Many sermons with good intentions , believe that the church today has lost their fear in God. So let's preach it into them. Now you've got the recipe for false converts who so long as they are doing the do and convincing themselves of ticking the boxes . After all " if Jesus is not Lord of all then , he's not Lord at all " .
He was a Manichaean before his
Manichaeism is an extreme form of dualistic gnosctism. It is gnostic because it promises salvation through the attainment of special knowledge of spiritual truths . It is dualistic because it argues that the foundation of the universe is the opposition of two principles, good and evil, each equal in relative power. Manichaeism is named after a religious figure named Mani.
Search
Ad
Abrahamic / Middle Eastern Christianity
An Introduction to Manichaeism
- Share
A painting of Mani's birth.
By
Austin Cline
Updated November 20, 2017
Manichaeism is an extreme form of dualistic gnosticism. It is gnostic because it promises salvation through the attainment of special knowledge of spiritual truths. It is dualistic because it argues that the foundation of the universe is the opposition of two principles, good and evil, each equal in relative power. Manichaeism is named after a religious figure named Mani.
Who Was Mani?
Mani was born in southern Babylon around the year 215 or 216 CE and received his first revelation at the age of 12. Around the age of 20, he seems to have completed his system of thought and began missionary work around the year 240. Although he found some support early on from Persian rulers, he and his followers were eventually persecuted and he appears to have died in prison in 276. His beliefs had, however, spread as far as Egypt and attracted a great many scholars, including Augustine.
We can see from the scriptures that the doctrines of Calvinism do not come from the scriptures ,deterministic philosophy is read into the scriptures, which such buzz words as ' chosen ' ' ordained ' Elected ' ect being used to create the paradigm . I argue that as its not scriptural then its reasonable to question Augustines thoughts on the matter that have led to were we are today. Calvinsm ' regeneration precedes faith was not taught before Augustine.
Every word and doctrine you attributed to Mani is in scripture. Except Regeneration preceding faith...while I do not believe that either, I don’t see any connection between that and Mani
If you think there is a historical connection between regeneration before faith and Manichaeism, feel free to demonstrate it ( or try to)
Were talking about the philosophy of ' determinism ' . That is a correlation. And ' secret inner knowledge known to a select few concept . Which is evident in the idea of the ' elect ' and only the ' elected' have the ' ears to hear ' . ect .
election is in the Bible. Ears to hear? Jesus said that.
Jesus was not a follower of Mani
Do you even know what the Calvinist doctrine of inability is? It has nothing to do with secret knowledge. A person can know everything you and I and everyone else here put together knows and still be as lost as a goose.
What I am saying is Salvation is an everyday walk receiving new mercies and life.
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Therefore it is not merely one moment in time it's everyday as we dwell in His love.
Read psalms 91.
Col. 1:23
Look up the tense in John 6:40 and define believed
A. No secret knowledge in Calvinism.
B. Bible teaches election
C. Determinism was around long before Gnosticism and Mani. Believing in determinism does not make one a Gnostic.
Nothing is undetermined in God’s knowledge, btw.
A unrated man cannot believe the Gospel unless he is regenerated first . Only those whom God has 'elected 'in eternity past does he cause belief in those he saves .
Its not my job to convince you of the connection to Calvinism and gnosctism. I've mentioned a few links and I'm sure you can search this out on your own time . I do see the connection and I'm certain why Calvinism believes what it believes.
L
