Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[MyrtleTrees]

Last night, in YouTube, I listened to gotquetions.org, on the subject of lordship salvation. The speaker said that only lordship salvation saves. Anything less than that, is "easy believism" - and isn't able to save anyone. I also listened to John MacArthur in Youtube - preaching on the subject. He said Jesus and the apostles preached the need for repentance and the need to accept Jesus as Lord, in order for anyone to get saved. He mentioned a lot of Bible verses giving proof of this. He said many think they're saved, by praying the "sinner's prayer of repentance" - but make no effort to change their lives for the better. He said the word "repentance" means, "changing one's way of thinking - plans to do things differently." Both of these speakers said that belief isn't enough to save anyone. Only if coupled with repentance, does it save anyone. And many verses mentioned - showed repentace as preceding baptism and salvation - that's how the verses were worded! The verses mentioned repentance, before mentioningn all the other.
I've observed, that many evidently - true Christians believe that repentance isn't a necessary part to receiving salvation. I believe some of these Christians are true Christians. Since they appear to be walking in obedience to Christ in their daily lives. But their theology - their way of explaining it to others is incorrect. And so has the potential for misleading other people into "easy believism." With the result of their dying without Christ, often.
I talked to the husband of the home we clean house at yesterday about this, and he said that he has also noticed that many true Christians don't understand the subject the same as we do - who do see the need for repentance. He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way. He said we must be loving towards them, though we can't agree on this subject - which is true, according to the Bible. But we dhould pray that they come to understand correctly on the subject.

 

[throughfaith]

Last night, in YouTube, I listened to gotquetions.org, on the subject of lordship salvation. The speaker said that only lordship salvation saves. Anything less than that, is "easy believism" - and isn't able to save anyone. I also listened to John MacArthur in Youtube - preaching on the subject. He said Jesus and the apostles preached the need for repentance and the need to accept Jesus as Lord, in order for anyone to get saved. He mentioned a lot of Bible verses giving proof of this. He said many think they're saved, by praying the "sinner's prayer of repentance" - but make no effort to change their lives for the better. He said the word "repentance" means, "changing one's way of thinking - plans to do things differently." Both of these speakers said that belief isn't enough to save anyone. Only if coupled with repentance, does it save anyone. And many verses mentioned - showed repentace as preceding baptism and salvation - that's how the verses were worded! The verses mentioned repentance, before mentioningn all the other.
I've observed, that many evidently - true Christians believe that repentance isn't a necessary part to receiving salvation. I believe some of these Christians are true Christians. Since they appear to be walking in obedience to Christ in their daily lives. But their theology - their way of explaining it to others is incorrect. And so has the potential for misleading other people into "easy believism." With the result of their dying without Christ, often.
I talked to the husband of the home we clean house at yesterday about this, and he said that he has also noticed that many true Christians don't understand the subject the same as we do - who do see the need for repentance. He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way. He said we must be loving towards them, though we can't agree on this subject - which is true, according to the Bible. But we dhould pray that they come to understand correctly on the subject.

Oh boy . Got questions and John Macarthur HAVE to preach the error of Lordship salvation because of their System. NOT because the bible says its true . Lordship salvation is the most damaging doctrine in Christianity. Calvinism is PRACTICALLY works salvation . Because of the TULI leading to P ,they have to include Lordship salvation . Its their only measure to see if they are still one of the elect.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

Oh boy . Got questions and John Macarthur HAVE to preach the error of Lordship salvation because of their System. NOT because the bible says its true . Lordship salvation is the most damaging doctrine in Christianity. Calvinism is PRACTICALLY works salvation . Because of the TULI leading to P ,they have to include Lordship salvation . Its their only measure to see if they are still one of the elect.

I respect your views, but as you see, I am in agreement with them. And I know of many scripture passages that support the way I and they see this subject.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To me I see it this way

Lordship salvation teaches we of our own power sanctify ourselves

Easy believism teaches licentious They claim to have faith but it is mere believe

True grace teaches god brings us to the end of ourselves. We cry out in desperation after repenting. And we continue to trust god who promises that we be he perfected us by begining a good work in us. He will continue to sanctify us until the end. It’s al reliance on God

In my view the first two have yet to repent. They both suffer from pride issues

 

[lenna]

the Bible does not teach lordship salvation. this is an error and both GotQuestions and MacArthur are swinging at windmills (Don Quixote reference)

GotQuestions appears to push the doctrine of Calvinism and Mac would have millions of people under the influence of demons since he refuses to believe any person speaking in tongues could possibly do so from the indwelling Holy Spirit

I respect your views, but as you see, I am in agreement with them. And I know of many scripture passages that support the way I and they see this subject.

let's be clear here. you seem to be persuaded by whatever it is you are currently watching or listening to. you are not a Bible teacher but you believe the 'teachers' you watch. that's fine. your threads are informing us regarding your preferences

but be careful you do not try to say the Bible supports these things because it most definately does not support them

It does not support cessationism and it does not support Calvinism

you are expressing the ideas of other people, not scripture, and you are free to do so, but be aware that you are expressing ideas and opinions, but not biblical fact

if I really disagree with an expressed viewpoint I cannot bring myself to say I respect it. maybe that is just me

 

[lenna]

Oh boy . Got questions and John Macarthur HAVE to preach the error of Lordship salvation because of their System. NOT because the bible says its true . Lordship salvation is the most damaging doctrine in Christianity. Calvinism is PRACTICALLY works salvation . Because of the TULI leading to P ,they have to include Lordship salvation . Its their only measure to see if they are still one of the elect.

the influence peddler of the religious world. Big Mac

I like GotQuestions as an easy goto for pulling up something fast, but when they start with the Calvinism I leave

 

[wattie]

Yeah.. lordship salvation has effort/works on behalf of the believer to be saved whereas the bible teaches receiving Christ by grace thru faith in Jesus without having to make turning from sin the means of salvation.

Their will be fruit from being saved though. That's the natural result of having the Holy Spirit indwell the spirit of someone.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

the Bible does not teach lordship salvation. this is an error and both GotQuestions and MacArthur are swinging at windmills (Don Quixote reference)

GotQuestions appears to push the doctrine of Calvinism and Mac would have millions of people under the influence of demons since he refuses to believe any person speaking in tongues could possibly do so from the indwelling Holy Spirit



let's be clear here. you seem to be persuaded by whatever it is you are currently watching or listening to. you are not a Bible teacher but you believe the 'teachers' you watch. that's fine. your threads are informing us regarding your preferences

but be careful you do not try to say the Bible supports these things because it most definately does not support them

It does not support cessationism and it does not support Calvinism

you are expressing the ideas of other people, not scripture, and you are free to do so, but be aware that you are expressing ideas and opinions, but not biblical fact

if I really disagree with an expressed viewpoint I cannot bring myself to say I respect it. maybe that is just me

To respect one's viewpoint, doesn't necessarily mean to agree with it. It just means to agree that their view is sincere, and that they may be true Christians. Many good, sincere Christians have wrong theology. We are to pray for all Christians to overcome errors of belief and to learn to interpret all of the scriptures as correctly as is possible.

I think you must know many who believe as you do. But I'm not in a minority either. I know many who believe as i do on this subject. But the important thing of all is always to trust the scriptures above all others.

 

[lenna]

I've observed, that many evidently - true Christians believe that repentance isn't a necessary part to receiving salvation. I believe some of these Christians are true Christians. Since they appear to be walking in obedience to Christ in their daily lives. But their theology - their way of explaining it to others is incorrect. And so has the potential for misleading other people into "easy believism." With the result of their dying without Christ, often.

and you believe you are in a place that would assign this task to you?

this is actually irritating to me that you would believe you have the ability to judge others that way. maybe that is what happens after too much MacArthur.

you state some appear to be saved since they are walking in obedience...well that would be the obedience you actually see, right? are you in their lives 24/7? you believe you are the judge of their theology? why? what leads you to think that?

this is what happens when a person is indoctrinated in Calvinism and MacArthur's school of do as I say and not as I do

I talked to the husband of the home we clean house at yesterday about this, and he said that he has also noticed that many true Christians don't understand the subject the same as we do - who do see the need for repentance. He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way. He said we must be loving towards them, though we can't agree on this subject - which is true, according to the Bible. But we dhould pray that they come to understand correctly on the subject.

well then that settles it. you are now an honorary judge of all things Christian

forgive the sarcasm, but you are falling into the trap of thinking yourself superior to those who DISAGREE with YOUR viewpoint which is actually the viewpoint of those you are watching in videos

 

[Nehemiah6]

He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way.

It should not be "hard" for any genuine Christian to abandon false beliefs and get back to Bible truth and Gospel truth (although we see little evidence of that on Christian forums).

Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. And all those who truly believe must receive Christ as both Lord and Savior.

Therefore let all the house of Israel [AND ALL THE WORLD] know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

 

[MyrtleTrees]

To me I see it this way

Lordship salvation teaches we of our own power sanctify ourselves

Easy believism teaches licentious They claim to have faith but it is mere believe

True grace teaches god brings us to the end of ourselves. We cry out in desperation after repenting. And we continue to trust god who promises that we be he perfected us by begining a good work in us. He will continue to sanctify us until the end. It’s al reliance on God

In my view the first two have yet to repent. They both suffer from pride issues

Well, I do not see lorship salvation to be incorrect or unbiblical. I am not proud. I just believe the Bible for what I see it to say, and believe it is important to do that and to not just believe what we want to believe about how to follow God and how to please Him.

I of course, agree with you, that easy believism is not something that can save a person, as I've said.

 

[lenna]

To respect one's viewpoint, doesn't necessarily mean to agree with it. It just means to agree that their view is sincere, and that they may e true Christians. Many good, sincere Christians have wrong theology. We are to pray for all Christians to overcome errors of belief and to learn to interpret all of the scriptures as correctly as is possible.

I think you must know many who believe as you do. But I'm not in a minority either. I know many who believe as i do on this subject. But the important thing of all is always to trust the scriptures above all others.

safety in numbers then it is

well you can rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic, but it is still going down

Many good, sincere Christians have wrong theology.

uh huh

 

[lenna]

Some Christians love to coin new phrases and ideas. ‘Lordship Salvation’ is just another of these. As Tozer once said, we are not called to the office of Christ, but to Christ Himself (Tozer: ‘Degenerate Christianity’). The term ‘Lordship Salvation’ is very odd and almost meaningless, because the salvation given by Christ is because He is Lord! However, as it is a term now used in many churches, we should say some more about it. Let us begin with a quote that sums-up the problem:

“Like an infectious disease, the heresy of Lordship Salvation is everywhere today. “Lordship Salvation” is the false teaching that acknowledging one's guilt of sin in the eyes of a holy God, and believing the Gospel are insufficient to save a person. In addition, proponents of Lordship Salvation teach that in order to be saved, a person must surrender their life in obedience to Christ's lordship, forsake the world, cease from sinful bad habits, confess Christ openly before men, and make a commitment to follow Jesus (or a variation thereof). Lordship Salvation is 100% based in human effort, which is a works-based false plan of salvation.”

(David J Stewart in http://www.jesusisprecious.org/false_doctrine/lordship_salvation/invading_churches.htm )

In the past I have shown concern for Dr John MacArthur. Now I voice concern again, for he advocates this newest deviation from truth. He is not alone, for Billy Graham also preached the same way. Stewart adds: “Moody (Ed. church, Institute and allied ministries) fully supports heretic Dr. John MacArthur of Grace To You, who denies that Jesus' blood is on the Mercy Seat in Heaven, says children cannot be saved, and teaches Lordship Salvation. Mr. MacArthur is an unsaved modernist, a devout Calvinist who teaches that saints must persevere in holy living to be saved.” As he says, Macarthur accepts all the counterfeit false Bible versions, too.

It is error to say that being saved is not enough, and that unless we press on and make sure every part of life is holy all the time, we will not enter Heaven! Those who say this show themselves to be out of line with truth. Genuinely saved people will WANT to live holy lives, and so they do. Along the way they/we will make mistakes, or might even choose to sin, but when we repent, we return to God’s goodwill.

What ‘Lordship Salvation’ adherents do is to add another human layer to salvation. In many ways it is nothing but reshuffled Roman Catholicism, with its good works made equal to salvation itself. source

 

[lenna]

When Paul wrote, say, to the Corinthians, he did NOT tell them they were bound for hell because of their many sins. No, he begins by calling them “the church of God which is at Corinth… called to be saints”. The Letters then go on to describe their faults and sins – but at no time does Paul tell them that because they were not always holy, they would lose their salvation. Yet, Macarthur and others are adding another layer of requirements. Peter wanted saved Gentiles, for example, to be circumcised, and so met the anger of Paul. Roman Catholics teach works plus belief lead to salvation, but only if the ‘Christian’ continually enters the Confessional and ‘helps’ with works. Many ‘Christians’ repeat this same error. source

 

[MyrtleTrees]

It should not be "hard" for any genuine Christian to abandon false beliefs and get back to Bible truth and Gospel truth (although we see little evidence of that on Christian forums).

Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. And all those who truly believe must receive Christ as both Lord and Savior.

Therefore let all the house of Israel [AND ALL THE WORLD] know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

Well, the human mind is complex. I'm certainly glad I have a correct understanding of the way of salvation through Jesus. But I know of others who have observed that other sincere Christians who believe faith alone - without works - aren't able to overcome their errors of belief easily. So I refrain from judging them completely. Though yes, I can question whether they really know the Lord or not - and it's hard to know that well without knowing such people well and only knowing them on the internet. But any who give evidence of not being surrendered to God with their life - I have good reason to doubt their claim of having obtained true salvation. Since God's Word shows that obedience (not sinless perfection, as that's not possible) - and "fruit" and "works" that professing Christians produce are proofs of who are true Christians and which ones are not.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

Some Christians love to coin new phrases and ideas. ‘Lordship Salvation’ is just another of these. As Tozer once said, we are not called to the office of Christ, but to Christ Himself (Tozer: ‘Degenerate Christianity’). The term ‘Lordship Salvation’ is very odd and almost meaningless, because the salvation given by Christ is because He is Lord! However, as it is a term now used in many churches, we should say some more about it. Let us begin with a quote that sums-up the problem:

“Like an infectious disease, the heresy of Lordship Salvation is everywhere today. “Lordship Salvation” is the false teaching that acknowledging one's guilt of sin in the eyes of a holy God, and believing the Gospel are insufficient to save a person. In addition, proponents of Lordship Salvation teach that in order to be saved, a person must surrender their life in obedience to Christ's lordship, forsake the world, cease from sinful bad habits, confess Christ openly before men, and make a commitment to follow Jesus (or a variation thereof). Lordship Salvation is 100% based in human effort, which is a works-based false plan of salvation.”

(David J Stewart in http://www.jesusisprecious.org/false_doctrine/lordship_salvation/invading_churches.htm )

In the past I have shown concern for Dr John MacArthur. Now I voice concern again, for he advocates this newest deviation from truth. He is not alone, for Billy Graham also preached the same way. Stewart adds: “Moody (Ed. church, Institute and allied ministries) fully supports heretic Dr. John MacArthur of Grace To You, who denies that Jesus' blood is on the Mercy Seat in Heaven, says children cannot be saved, and teaches Lordship Salvation. Mr. MacArthur is an unsaved modernist, a devout Calvinist who teaches that saints must persevere in holy living to be saved.” As he says, Macarthur accepts all the counterfeit false Bible versions, too.

It is error to say that being saved is not enough, and that unless we press on and make sure every part of life is holy all the time, we will not enter Heaven! Those who say this show themselves to be out of line with truth. Genuinely saved people will WANT to live holy lives, and so they do. Along the way they/we will make mistakes, or might even choose to sin, but when we repent, we return to God’s goodwill.

What ‘Lordship Salvation’ adherents do is to add another human layer to salvation. In many ways it is nothing but reshuffled Roman Catholicism, with its good works made equal to salvation itself. source

Well we don't agree so we just have to pray for one another.

 

[lenna]

for those who might be interested, here is a link to another lordship salvation thread


THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

this is not a new subject by any means and different views are well represented

 

[Magenta]

I like GotQuestions as an easy goto for pulling up something fast, but when they start with the Calvinism I leave

I agree that gotquestions is a very good resource, but I also know they are not without error. Discretion is advised, always

 

[Nehemiah6]

Yet, Macarthur and others are adding another layer of requirements.

While I disagree with MacArthur on several matters, if you are suggesting that repentance is not necessary for salvation, then that contradicts Acts 2:38 (and Acts 3:19). And if you are suggesting that receiving Christ as BOTH Lord and Savior is not necessary for salvation, then you are contradicting Acts 2:36.

When Paul said "Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31) he included the Lordship of Christ in faith towards Christ. When he said "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD Jesus" (Rom 10:9) and "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved" (Rom 10:13), he meant the same thing.

This is not an "additional layer of requirement". To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to believe that He is both Lord of the universe, Lord of the Church, and Lord and Master of every believer, as well as the Savior of the world. Which means that Christians cannot do as the please, or believe as they please.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, I do not see lorship salvation to be incorrect or unbiblical. I am not proud. I just believe the Bible for what I see it to say, and believe it is important to do that and to not just believe what we want to believe about how to follow God and how to please Him.

I of course, agree with you, that easy believism is not something that can save a person, as I've said.

Take note, you see the Bible says that. It does not mean it does

I can not make Jesus my lord until he first becomes my savior. Lordship salvation wants to put the cart before the horse. I can not see it