Eph 1:13, In whom (Christ) "ye" (Eph 1:1 saints which are at Ephesus) also trusted, "after" (as newly regenerated babes in Christ became weaned from the milk of the word) that ye "heard" (by the preaching) the word of truth, the gospel "of your salvation" (That Christ had paid for your sins), in whom (Christ) also after ye believed, ye were "sealed" (as a letter is sealed, glued, or stamped) with that "holy Spirit of promise" ( Strong's=an announcement, message [that the saints at Ephesus have an inheritance of heaven]), in which this message ( the gospel) is an earnest of that inheritance. These saints at Ephesus were already born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and began their spiritual journey as babes in Christ, in the same manner that we all do.
The natural man
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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Learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, because therein is contained more comfort, security, and peace for God's children than they can imagine. The scriptures do not contradict each other, and I could explain John 3:16 to harmonize with the other scriptures, but I have explained it to you before, and you are content to believe it your way, even if it does contradict other scriptures
Ok. Just read and tell me what it says ?
Eph 1 13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
There is nothing there that contradicts with other passages. I don't need to add or give a running commentary along side. It just says what is says .
Eph 1 13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
There is nothing there that contradicts with other passages. I don't need to add or give a running commentary along side. It just says what is says .
All of those that the Father gave to his Son, were, by covenant relationship, saved, delivered, secured in their eternal inheritance, by Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Sometime between their natural birth, and their natural death, God, by his sovereign grace, without the help of man, will, while he is yet dead, spiritually, in his sins. quicken him to a spiritual life in Christ. God gets all of the praise, and man gets none.
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Do we even have to understand how God leads us to the point of salvation. Aren’t we happy just to know He led us there and He saved us and He granted us a gift of faith and He sealed us and filled us with His Holy Spirit and He will complete the work He began in us? Isn’t it enough to know He saved us?
Why look for ways to argue?
Why not rejoice together and agree on the simple fact Christ died for us and because of Him we have eternal life. Isn’t that what really matters, not trying to force others to agree with our own understanding of scripture? We can let it go and we can get along if we agree He is what it’s all about. Magnify the Lord, give your understanding clearly, gently and lovingly and leave it there. If people disagree that’s ok. It really is. Let others state their case too and respectfully leave it there once you both know
What the other believes. What can be achieved by this tug of war, wielding the word as a sword AT one another. This should not be how we use such a glorious possession.
Why look for ways to argue?
Why not rejoice together and agree on the simple fact Christ died for us and because of Him we have eternal life. Isn’t that what really matters, not trying to force others to agree with our own understanding of scripture? We can let it go and we can get along if we agree He is what it’s all about. Magnify the Lord, give your understanding clearly, gently and lovingly and leave it there. If people disagree that’s ok. It really is. Let others state their case too and respectfully leave it there once you both know
What the other believes. What can be achieved by this tug of war, wielding the word as a sword AT one another. This should not be how we use such a glorious possession.
Lovely post 
You said:
Magnify the Lord, give your understanding clearly, gently and lovingly and leave it there. If people disagree that’s ok. It really is. Let others state their case too and respectfully leave it there once you both know the other believes.
The problem is one can state their understanding, and another comes along and claims you have said things you did not, and stubbornly clings to their position by multiplying false accusations. We are to expose works of darkness. So when someone states a case that is a blatant misrepresentation, it should be called out as such. I do agree there comes a point, and fairly quickly too, when dealing with such adamantly dishonest people is fruitless. Their adherence to their false assumptions/beliefs makes them completely unreasonable.
You said:Magnify the Lord, give your understanding clearly, gently and lovingly and leave it there. If people disagree that’s ok. It really is. Let others state their case too and respectfully leave it there once you both know the other believes.
The problem is one can state their understanding, and another comes along and claims you have said things you did not, and stubbornly clings to their position by multiplying false accusations. We are to expose works of darkness. So when someone states a case that is a blatant misrepresentation, it should be called out as such. I do agree there comes a point, and fairly quickly too, when dealing with such adamantly dishonest people is fruitless. Their adherence to their false assumptions/beliefs makes them completely unreasonable.
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Lovely post You said:
Magnify the Lord, give your understanding clearly, gently and lovingly and leave it there. If people disagree that’s ok. It really is. Let others state their case too and respectfully leave it there once you both know the other believes.
The problem is one can state their understanding, and another comes along and claims you have said things you did not, and stubbornly adheres to their position by multiplying false accusations. We are to expose works of darkness. So when someone states a case that is a blatant misrepresentation, it should be called out as such. I do agree there comes a point, and fairly quickly too, when dealing with such adamantly dishonest people is fruitless.
You said:Magnify the Lord, give your understanding clearly, gently and lovingly and leave it there. If people disagree that’s ok. It really is. Let others state their case too and respectfully leave it there once you both know the other believes.
The problem is one can state their understanding, and another comes along and claims you have said things you did not, and stubbornly adheres to their position by multiplying false accusations. We are to expose works of darkness. So when someone states a case that is a blatant misrepresentation, it should be called out as such. I do agree there comes a point, and fairly quickly too, when dealing with such adamantly dishonest people is fruitless.
Going to be a fruitful discussion and would be best left peaceably at that point.
Thanks for your thoughts on my post
it is good to clarify to a sincere questioner, i totally agree with that -
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All of those that the Father gave to his Son ,yes he did. When? look where we are in the timeline . Its John 6 . Its the Old testament and its before the greatest event in the entire bible. And your going backwards into John 6 ? Especially in light of John 12 .32 ? This baffles me . The Gospel is 1 cor 15 . 1-4 not John 6 ,even John 10 ?
The verses that you have quoted talks about coming to the light. Is that the unregenerate natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 that is exercising his free will to come to the light? Are you saying that a man that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness is going to come to them?
John 4:24, says that God is a Spirit; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 6:44 says no man can come to me (the light), except the Father which hath sent me draw him, and in verse 45 Jesus says every man that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father cometh unto me. The unregenerate natural man cannot understand Jesus's teachings.. John 10:27-28, My sheep (regenerated) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life.
All scriptures must harmonize in order to understand the truths in Christ's doctrine. The natural man cannot come unto the light until after he has been regenerate, by God's grace.
John 3:18-21 does, in no way, make it clear that the unregenerate natural man has a will to come to the light of spiritual things that he does not understand, and thinks to be foolishness.
John 4:24, says that God is a Spirit; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 6:44 says no man can come to me (the light), except the Father which hath sent me draw him, and in verse 45 Jesus says every man that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father cometh unto me. The unregenerate natural man cannot understand Jesus's teachings.. John 10:27-28, My sheep (regenerated) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life.
All scriptures must harmonize in order to understand the truths in Christ's doctrine. The natural man cannot come unto the light until after he has been regenerate, by God's grace.
John 3:18-21 does, in no way, make it clear that the unregenerate natural man has a will to come to the light of spiritual things that he does not understand, and thinks to be foolishness.
Yes,
Ezekiel 37 (ESV)
1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the Lord and set me down in the middle of the valley; it was full of bones. 2 And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry. 3 And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord God, you know." 4 Then he said to me, "Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. 5 Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the Lord." 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. 8 And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them. 9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord God: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live." 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army. 11 Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.' 12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. 14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the Lord; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the Lord." 15 The word of the Lord came to me: 16 "Son of man, take a stick and write on it, 'For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him'; then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.' 17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 18 And when your people say to you, 'Will you not tell us what you mean by these?' 19 say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. 20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, 21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. 22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 24 "My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. 25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore."
Ezekiel 37 (ESV)
1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the Lord and set me down in the middle of the valley; it was full of bones. 2 And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry. 3 And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord God, you know." 4 Then he said to me, "Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. 5 Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the Lord." 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. 8 And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them. 9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord God: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live." 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army. 11 Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.' 12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. 14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the Lord; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the Lord." 15 The word of the Lord came to me: 16 "Son of man, take a stick and write on it, 'For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him'; then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.' 17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 18 And when your people say to you, 'Will you not tell us what you mean by these?' 19 say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. 20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, 21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. 22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 24 "My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. 25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore."
I have told you before, and provided scripture, that having a knowledge of the gospel does not deliver (save) a person eternally. After the new born regenerated babe in Christ comes unto a knowledge of the gospel, by gradually learning of it from teachers and preachers, it delivers (saves) them from being babes to being mature. As long as you hold all salvation scriptures to be eternal, you will never understand the doctrine that Jesus taught.