When are we saved ?

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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
It doesn't say that they believed. The evidence is they all fled in unbelief ..They all left Jesus save a few . If you stick to all that were drawn by the father believed and remained with Jesus . then it surely follows when Jesus says he will draw ALL men then universalism must be true ?
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No. Different context. Jesus didn’t say all that are drawn into Him will come in John 12
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
How on earth are you missing the point that the Young ruler DID come to Jesus. He didn't send an email. He actually came to Jesus RUNNING . And kneeling . We can't physically come to Jesus today. But He did come. Did he believe? Did he follow ?
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I am speaking of coming to Jesus in the John 6:35 sense. Jesus has a different meaning for “ come unto me” than you do”

Didn’t He tell people who came to Him In your sense “ you will not come to. Me”.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Read 36 .36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me , and believe not .
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Why didn’t they believe? What was preventing them. They were unwilling and unable. Just like the rich young ruler.

Read John 5:40.
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
Well, He didn’t, did He?
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Were talking about ' draw' that's what it says . Sane
OIC1965 said:
Why didn’t they believe? What was preventing them. They were unwilling and unable. Just like the rich young ruler.

Read John 5:40.
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John 5 .
38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

The point is about the sheep who were already learning from the Father. These recognised Jesus words also Because they knew the Fathers ' words ' ( Scriptures) Think of those that were following the scriptures v the ones who had deviated from the scriptures.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Jesus didn't say he wasn't a champion figure skater either . We should stick to what has been revealed.
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That’s funny. No, Jesus did not say He was a champion figure skater because He wasn’t.

What did you think you just proved?
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
you.

I’m not dividing persons. Just roles.

You’re the one who claimed the persons of the Trinity act while others are not active.
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Nope . I don't believe the Father or the Holy Spirit became a man and died on a cross . I believe they were all active. But in different roles . its a silly thing to say , because ' active and inactive don't apply as the being of God is Spirit and the being is ONE .
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Were talking about ' draw' that's what it says . Sane

John 5 .
38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

The point is about the sheep who were already learning from the Father. These recognised Jesus words also Because they knew the Fathers ' words ' ( Scriptures) Think of those that were following the scriptures v the ones who had deviated from the scriptures.
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So then....

The Pharisees who didnt believe didn’t understand or recognize the scriptures than, right?

Because it takes more than reading, and studying, and hearing the scriptures to understand them RIGHT?!!

What else does it take?
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
That’s funny. No, Jesus did not say He was a champion figure skater because He wasn’t.

What did you think you just proved?
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That we should stick to what has been revealed . We should not make arguments about what was not said.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Nope . I don't believe the Father or the Holy Spirit became a man and died on a cross . I believe they were all active. But in different roles . its a silly thing to say , because ' active and inactive don't apply as the being of God is Spirit and the being is ONE .
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The Father and Spirit were active in the incarnation. Not inactive. Yet you have the Spirit inactive (not working) while the Father and Son are drawing. See how that works.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
That we should stick to what has been revealed . We should not make arguments about what was not said.
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Yes. And John 6 said that those who are drawn come and John 12 does not mention if they come or not, right?
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

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ForestGreenCook said:
I don't know if you recall, but preacher4truth singled me out to discredit my stand that the scriptures teach two different deliverances. One being eternal deliverance, and the other being a timely deliverance that we receive here in this world. Didn't the forum ban him?
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Explain to me what "two different deliverances" is about.
As I understand deliverance, it is to be delivered from the punishment of our sin (by the blood of Christ)
So is eternal deliverance for time and eternity or just for eternity, so how does time fit in?
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Were talking about ' draw' that's what it says . Sane

John 5 .
38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

The point is about the sheep who were already learning from the Father. These recognised Jesus words also Because they knew the Fathers ' words ' ( Scriptures) Think of those that were following the scriptures v the ones who had deviated from the scriptures.
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The Pharisees heard the scriptures constantly. Yet most of them did not come.
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
Why didn’t they believe? What was preventing them. They were unwilling and unable. Just like the rich young ruler.

Read John 5:40.
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What prevents is no different today . Refusing to believe the truth so as to be saved.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

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I came to this late, but does "though faith" deny the doctrine of the Trinity??
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
What prevents is no different today . Refusing to believe the truth so as to be saved.
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Same thing as the rich young ruler

And Jesus said “ with man impossible, but with God all things are possible

Same thing as the folks in John 6. And Jesus said no one is able to come unless the Father draws them

Inability based on love of sin and unwillingness to come.
 
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