When are we saved ?
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Amen to that!!!!! The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That’s kind of like John 1:1. Just because it says He existed in or from the beginning, does not negate His existence before the beginning.
Fare you well.
The conclusion to the two of you, is that God purposes people, and events, and circumstances, and what God purposes WILL come to pass. His ways are higher than our way, and past our understanding.
ForestGreenCook, the post above was not intended to be addressed to you. Sorry about that
My question here is that, is there anyone of us here existed before the foundation of the world? Seems this endless debate over Eph. 1:4. I ask, which best described who is before the foundation of the world? Does this refer to 'us' or 'him'? Thanks
The pronoun that is the direct object is US. He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world
Who is us referring to? Believers, of course.
You’re talking about God. You don’t need to exist for God to foreknow you or choose you. His knowledge is not limited or bound by time.
You are .....born again......not saved if you are still alive on this earth.
If you are saved here why is God's judgement necessary after this physical death.
Remember scripture....it is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgement. Once God says we are...saved.....we are saved forever...no one or anything can touch us.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he savED us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Thanks for the response. Are you saying the choosing is the same as foreknowledge? That believers have existed before the world was? I believe what God has foreknown is his method that is why 'in him'. To be in him is to trust In him, to have faith in him. By the way, seems v9 which is the 'mystery of his will is being' talked about hence the method which is being chosen beforehand. Please enlighten me especially since I am not there before the foundation of the world. Thanks
No foreknowledge is not the same as choosing.
Ephesians 1:4 says God chose us, which means people. Also in Romans 8:28-30, God does not foreknow what’s He foreknows whos.
We don’t need to exist for God to foreknow. I don’t have a lot of time right now, but more later.
He specifically said God knows us before we even exist...
God knows the end from the beginning
For someone who is living outside time, the moment you choose him, that knowledge becomes known to him from the very beginning of time. But that does not mean he caused you to choose him. He observed you making that choice instead
But for us living inside the time dimension, we only have that knowledge at that moment.
Don't let the phrase "in Christ" confuse you. In greek, it is the preposition "en". Here are some of the various ways that the preposition en is used in the Bible.
en
into
in,
on,
at,
within
besides,
among
in with,
by means of
because of
with
So chosen "in Christ" could mean chosen by means of Christ, chosen because of Christ, or chosen with Christ. It DOESN'T have to mean that we were in Christ before we were born.
Thanks and that is God's nature being omniscientHe specifically said God knows us before we even exist...
God knows the end from the beginning
Thanks. You said foreknowledge differs and what the Bible says it's about God's choosing. We'll need more of your exposition. Thanks
Umm, the Greek, well, accepted in the beloved, redemption through his blood, by grace through faith, the riches of grace, are not these highlight s the method or his will of saving? Thanks
Seems to me it could not be 'chosen with Christ' before the world began. Possible is 'chosen because of Christ', yet the actual redemptive act of Christ' is not yet done though, I believe it is foreseen or foreknown and this will bring it to pass in the fullness of time, but this is only my understanding. Thanks
sanctification has a twofold application in scripture. First, one is sanctified by the Spirit when he is saved and put into the body of Christ. Secondly, he is "called" to be sanctified. In other words, he is called to personal sanctification where his walk will match his position as a son of God.
Here, is a passage that speaks of the first. Check it out.
2 Thess 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning (the beginning for gentiles was in Acts 10) chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. (this verse speaks of predestination to a glorified body)
Here are a couple that speaks of the second:
1 Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
Set apart "in" Christ Jesus but called to be set apart. The context will explain why and how.
Here is another;
2 Tim 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
The purpose of God in Christ is the same here as it is in Rom 8 and Eph 1, and that purpose is to form the body of Christ, "now" as it is said in v 10, and then to glorify it, the immortality of the body, which is future. Eternal life comes before the immortality of the body.
Our calling as the body of Christ is to glory! This is the ultimate sanctification.
Here, is a passage that speaks of the first. Check it out.
2 Thess 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning (the beginning for gentiles was in Acts 10) chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. (this verse speaks of predestination to a glorified body)
Here are a couple that speaks of the second:
1 Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
Set apart "in" Christ Jesus but called to be set apart. The context will explain why and how.
Here is another;
2 Tim 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
The purpose of God in Christ is the same here as it is in Rom 8 and Eph 1, and that purpose is to form the body of Christ, "now" as it is said in v 10, and then to glorify it, the immortality of the body, which is future. Eternal life comes before the immortality of the body.
Our calling as the body of Christ is to glory! This is the ultimate sanctification.