When are we saved ?

[ForestGreenCook]

Come on . What happened ..You didn't start off believing this Lordship / legalistic philosophy, when did you start to fall into it . I was drawn into it through letting my guard down, watching to many debates on YouTube and started listening to the likes of vodie baucham , , Greg Bahnsen, James White ect .

That seems to be your problem, you seek counsel from other men, instead of relying upon the scriptures to prove themselves, with the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Every time that I picked up the bible, and tried to make sense of it, the scriptures seemed to contradict each other, and my understanding was that they should harmonize. At the age of 50 I had the thought, that I was smart enough to figure the scriptures out, if I bought a concordance book, and started looking up the Greek meanings of the seemingly contradicting scriptures. My family has been known to have a stubborn gean, and I studied very hard, and attended several different denominational churches, taking notes, and searching them out, for 12 years. I finally gave up, and decided that I would have to be content with not understanding the scriptures, because I was not smart enough to do it.

A certain amount of time elapsed, and I was visiting with my brother-in-law, and discussing the scriptures, when some of the scriptures that were contradicting to me, began to start harmonizing together with other scriptures.

It became obvious to me, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit within me, that if he had revealed these truths to me, when I was in the mindset that I was smart enough to figure it out, I would have taken credit myself, instead of giving God the credit.

It became evident, that before anyone can make sense of the scriptures, they have to deny their own entelect, and rely upon God to reveal.

 

[BenjaminN]

I am an individual, not from a group / organisation. God started about 9 years ago, when I would randomly open God's word, he would give me the scriptures I have quoted. The first I can remember, that struck me, due to my locality as a South African, was:


Zephaniah 3 (NASB)

10 My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings.

I obey the Elohim (the Godhead), through their Word, as revealed by their Spirit.

Physicalle, as a lost sheep here on earth, as a physcial scattered Israelite, I am regathered into the Christian Judaic "sect" of the Nazarenes as founded by Yeshua ha Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah.


Acts 24 (ESV)

1 And after five days the high priest Ananias came down with some elders and a spokesman, one Tertullus. They laid before the governor their case against Paul.

5 For we have found this man a plague, one who stirs up riots among all the Jews throughout the world and is a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes.

oftheCreator.com

True gathered, formerly scattered Israel of Yeshua ha'Mashiach = Assembly of God's covenant people = True Church of Jesus the Messiah

 

[Lafftur]

That seems to be your problem, you seek counsel from other men, instead of relying upon the scriptures to prove themselves, with the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Every time that I picked up the bible, and tried to make sense of it, the scriptures seemed to contradict each other, and my understanding was that they should harmonize. At the age of 50 I had the thought, that I was smart enough to figure the scriptures out, if I bought a concordance book, and started looking up the Greek meanings of the seemingly contradicting scriptures. My family has been known to have a stubborn gean, and I studied very hard, and attended several different denominational churches, taking notes, and searching them out, for 12 years. I finally gave up, and decided that I would have to be content with not understanding the scriptures, because I was not smart enough to do it.

A certain amount of time elapsed, and I was visiting with my brother-in-law, and discussing the scriptures, when some of the scriptures that were contradicting to me, began to start harmonizing together with other scriptures.

It became obvious to me, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit within me, that if he had revealed these truths to me, when I was in the mindset that I was smart enough to figure it out, I would have taken credit myself, instead of giving God the credit.

It became evident, that before anyone can make sense of the scriptures, they have to deny their own entelect, and rely upon God to reveal.

Amen! We know and understand NOTHING unless the Holy Spirit gives us understanding.

The heart and mind are connected and the heart controls the mind.

When our hearts are prideful, our human intellect takes us on rabbit trails and hamster wheels....dead ends and circles going nowhere really fast! Lol!

However, when our hearts are humble and surrendered to God, our human intellect is not hindered by pride and we can receive Truth from God’s Holy Spirit because we are now teachable.

 

[BenjaminN]

Could you tell me how you were saved ?

By grace. I have been a repenting Christian all my life, and had faith in all that my parents and teachers told me of God. At times in my life, my works deviated from what would be considered prepared by God. Repentance is a continual thing. But I had an experience like the prodigal son. I strayed from the faith, and came home again, when I had a big realisation that I am a big sinner, but that God had loved me all this time I was away from home, and he forgave me, even though some people close to me still judged me.

My God-given faith suffered when my works deviated from what would be considered prepared by God, as I tried to justify these foul fruits to myself and others. By God's grace, God reallowed his lost son, who was always still his son, against his bossom in the presence of his Spirit. Everyday of sin is a constant cycle of repentance and forgiveness by God's grace, in a process of sanctification.

My family (on father's, father side back to their recent forefather) can be traced to have been barbaric Vikings that pestered Normandy in France (prior to 1000BC), and was given the gift of God-given faith when they freely as subject-rulers over Normandy (at Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte, France), converted to the body of Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah, through the instrument of the Roman Catholics in the hand of God. After Luther's reformation of the 1500's my forefathers resigned the denomination of the Roman Catholics, and became part of the body of Yeshua ha'Mashiach's / Jesus the Messiah's Protestants in the hand of God. In 1681 my forefather Pierre Guillaume Néel III suffered a martyred death at the hands of the Dragonades of France's then Roman Catholic king King Louis the sunking (who "invented" the scientific society of 1666), for having a direct path to God through his word, and not through the Pope. His wife stayed behind in France, and probably continued to quietly continue her Protestant faith inwardly, and outwardly continue as a subject of the Roman Catholics under King Louis XIV. His son, at the tender age of 19 fled to the Netherlands, and became a bondservant for his ticket to the Cape of Good Hope (South Africa of today), that's how me and my family was scattered to my current location.


Zephaniah 3 (ESV)

10 From beyond the rivers of Cush my worshipers, the daughter of my dispersed ones, shall bring my offering. 14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem! 15 The Lord has taken away the judgments against you; he has cleared away your enemies. The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst; you shall never again fear evil. 16 On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem: "Fear not, O Zion; let not your hands grow weak. 17 The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing. 18 I will gather those of you who mourn for the festival, so that you will no longer suffer reproach. 20 At that time I will bring you in, at the time when I gather you together; for I will make you renowned and praised among all the peoples of the earth, when I restore your fortunes before your eyes," says the Lord.

 

[throughfaith]

That seems to be your problem, you seek counsel from other men, instead of relying upon the scriptures to prove themselves, with the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Every time that I picked up the bible, and tried to make sense of it, the scriptures seemed to contradict each other, and my understanding was that they should harmonize. At the age of 50 I had the thought, that I was smart enough to figure the scriptures out, if I bought a concordance book, and started looking up the Greek meanings of the seemingly contradicting scriptures. My family has been known to have a stubborn gean, and I studied very hard, and attended several different denominational churches, taking notes, and searching them out, for 12 years. I finally gave up, and decided that I would have to be content with not understanding the scriptures, because I was not smart enough to do it.

A certain amount of time elapsed, and I was visiting with my brother-in-law, and discussing the scriptures, when some of the scriptures that were contradicting to me, began to start harmonizing together with other scriptures.

It became obvious to me, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit within me, that if he had revealed these truths to me, when I was in the mindset that I was smart enough to figure it out, I would have taken credit myself, instead of giving God the credit.

It became evident, that before anyone can make sense of the scriptures, they have to deny their own entelect, and rely upon God to reveal.

My point is that because you align yourself with the systematic theology which is a prepackaged deal, called Calvinism I cannot help but see the system your proper gating. You admit that you are a Calvinist so I'm not being unfair here . I'm saying ALL 5 points of Calvinsm is false . If you hold to all 5 ,I don't believe that the Holy Spirit has revealed this to you . Because they are completely false . So I believe its fair to say from the scriptures you are believing man made doctrines .

 

[throughfaith]

My God-given faith suffered when my works deviated from what would be considered prepared by God, as I tried to justify these foul fruits to myself and others. By God's grace, God reallowed his lost son, who was always still his son, against his bossom in the presence of his Spirit. Everyday of sin is a constant cycle of repentance and forgiveness by God's grace, in a process of sanctification.

My family (on father's, father side back to their recent forefather) can be traced to have been barbaric Vikings that pestered Normandy in France (prior to 1000BC), and was given the gift of God-given faith when they freely as subject-rulers over Normandy (at Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte, France), converted to the body of Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah, through the instrument of the Roman Catholics in the hand of God. After Luther's reformation of the 1500's my forefathers resigned the denomination of the Roman Catholics, and became part of the body of Yeshua ha'Mashiach's / Jesus the Messiah's Protestants in the hand of God. In 1681 my forefather Pierre Guillaume Néel III suffered a martyred death at the hands of the Dragonades of France's then Roman Catholic king King Louis the sunking (who "invented" the scientific society of 1666), for having a direct path to God through his word, and not through the Pope. His wife stayed behind in France, and probably continued to quietly continue her Protestant faith inwardly, and outwardly continue as a subject of the Roman Catholics under King Louis XIV. His son, at the tender age of 19 fled to the Netherlands, and became a bondservant for his ticket to the Cape of Good Hope (South Africa of today), that's how me and my family was scattered to my current location.


Zephaniah 3 (ESV)

10 From beyond the rivers of Cush my worshipers, the daughter of my dispersed ones, shall bring my offering. 14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem! 15 The Lord has taken away the judgments against you; he has cleared away your enemies. The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst; you shall never again fear evil. 16 On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem: "Fear not, O Zion; let not your hands grow weak. 17 The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing. 18 I will gather those of you who mourn for the festival, so that you will no longer suffer reproach. 20 At that time I will bring you in, at the time when I gather you together; for I will make you renowned and praised among all the peoples of the earth, when I restore your fortunes before your eyes," says the Lord.

So far you have not mentioned the Gospel that saves ..What is the Gospel that saves a man today?

 

[BenjaminN]

oftheCreator.com

True scattered Israel = True gathered Church

 

[BenjaminN]

of the Creator.com

Old covenant True scattered Israel = New covenant True gathered Church

 

[BenjaminN]

So far you have not mentioned the Gospel that saves ..What is the Gospel that saves a man today?

John 3 (ESV)

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."

oftheCreator.com

King Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah is King of:
Old covenant scattered True Israel = New covenant gathered True Church

 

[throughfaith]

John 3 (ESV)

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."

oftheCreator.com

King Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah is King of:
Old covenant scattered True Israel = New covenant gathered True Church

I like the song . But like I said . Say I'm not saved . What do i have to do and believe to be saved ? Do I just simply believe John 3.16 ?

 

[throughfaith]

John 3 (ESV)

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."

oftheCreator.com

King Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah is King of:
Old covenant scattered True Israel = New covenant gathered True Church

Would you agree with Paul ( who was made the apostle to the gentiles by Jesus) with the definition and explanation of the Gospel in Rom 1.16 . 1 cor 15 . 1-4 and Rom 10 ,9 10 . That this is what the Gospel is . That this is how we appropriate it and this is how we are saved today?

 

[stonesoffire]

Act 16:27 When the jailer woke up and saw the prison doors wide open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, since he thought the prisoners had escaped.

Act 16:28 But Paul shouted in a loud voice, "Don't hurt yourself, because we are all here!"

Act 16:29 The jailer asked for torches and rushed inside. Trembling as he knelt in front of Paul and Silas,

Act 16:30 he took them outside and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

Act 16:31 They answered, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you and your family will be saved."

Act 16:32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and everyone in his home.

Act 16:33 At that hour of the night he took them and washed their wounds. Then he and his entire family were baptized immediately.

 

[EleventhHour]

Man is enslaved to sin. His freedom to believe is granted by the God who redeems slaves.

Man has the capacity to respond to the Gospel .. and being enslaved to sin is not a prohibiting factor... in fact Jesus came to call sinners.

 

[BenjaminN]

I like the song . But like I said . Say I'm not saved . What do i have to do and believe to be saved ? Do I just simply believe John 3.16 ?

There is nothing YOU can do, God has done it, if you are of his eternally chosen. By God's grace. (full stop)

 

[OIC1965]

Man has the capacity to respond to the Gospel .. and being enslaved to sin is not a prohibiting factor... in fact Jesus came to call sinners.

Man is enslaved to sin and is made free to believe by the God who redeems slaves

 

[EleventhHour]

Man is enslaved to sin and is made free to believe by the God who redeems slaves

Man can and does believe and when He does He receives the gift of eternal life.

If man has to be set free to believe there would be no need for him suppress truth.

 

[OIC1965]

Man can and does believe and when He does He receives the gift of eternal life.

If man has to be set free to believe there would be no need for him suppress truth.

Acts 11:18. God grants slaves to sin repentance unto life.

 

[EleventhHour]

Acts 11:18. God grants slaves to sin repentance unto life.

Funny..just by the playbook always.. okay I will get back to you someday maybe.

 

[OIC1965]

Funny..just by the playbook always.. okay I will get back to you someday maybe.

The same playbook we use to demonstrate saved by Grace, the Deity of Christ, and security of the believer, yes.

Philippians 1:28-29

 

[ForestGreenCook]

My point is that because you align yourself with the systematic theology which is a prepackaged deal, called Calvinism I cannot help but see the system your proper gating. You admit that you are a Calvinist so I'm not being unfair here . I'm saying ALL 5 points of Calvinsm is false . If you hold to all 5 ,I don't believe that the Holy Spirit has revealed this to you . Because they are completely false . So I believe its fair to say from the scriptures you are believing man made doctrines .

I do not claim to be a "Calvinist" and have told you that I have never read any of Calvin's writings. I base my understanding of the scriptures, on scripture proving scripture.