Born again?
- Thread starter Marksixteensixteen
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Full verse in context:
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19¶So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19¶So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
We see in Genesis that man cut himself off. Can't blame God for the Fall.
Gentiles were out of luck then, they had to join the nation Israel during that time to be included, until the nation Israel has fallen from that special favor (Romans 11:11).
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L
well let's look at the verses (if a person is going to quote something, for the most part, they should take the bother to actually include the verses and not just the reference IMO)
11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
so, you take these verses OUT OF CONTEXT and hope to illustrate why your view is THE view. however, contextually, the 2 verses do NOT state what you are painfully trying to make them say
the OT law indicated a Gentile could convert to Judaism, so they would then be as Jewish as born Jew
nowhere is Paul saying no Gentile ever was saved. that, is your fabrication and if you would understand that doctrines do not have a one or two verse source, you might understand this concept.
the moment Christ rose from the dead, ALL must come to God through Him ONLY. no more OT law or sacrificial system. this now includes Jews and Gentiles who are ONE in Christ. Jews without Christ are now as dead and unbelieving as any Gentile who does not believe
why? did God only love the Jews?
for God so loved THE WORLD...it was always God's plan to include all who believed. Abraham was not born a Jew. how should we account for him? God creates...that is what He does. He has created a plan of salvation or redemption for ALL who believe.
Jesus had not yet come to earth, yet Abraham was accounted righteous before God. WHY? because he BELIEVED God. his faith was his righteousness
salvation is not an order of dos and donts like the OT
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God causes you to BE born again 1 Peter 1:3 (it can't get any plainer than that!)
By God's grace: belief (faith) is a gift of God and not of yourself that no man can boast Eph 2:9
Some people get a bit of spiritual pride that they were smart enough to "accept Christ" while the rest of the unsaved are obviously too stupid to grow a little faith. I never count anyone out, never know when or if the call from God will quicken them to new life. God has made us with His purpose to do His will. God turned their hearts to execute His will Rev 17:17
Even trolls have a purpose.
By God's grace: belief (faith) is a gift of God and not of yourself that no man can boast Eph 2:9
Some people get a bit of spiritual pride that they were smart enough to "accept Christ" while the rest of the unsaved are obviously too stupid to grow a little faith. I never count anyone out, never know when or if the call from God will quicken them to new life. God has made us with His purpose to do His will. God turned their hearts to execute His will Rev 17:17
Even trolls have a purpose.
L
you know, never in my entire life (saved since the age of 5 and been all over the place in many different churches due to moves and service) have I heard or read of anyone thinking they are 'smart enough' to accept Christ
this, is the problem that Calvinist's create. not content to debate, which is fine and actually often helps a person understand what they say they believe better as they research, you must needs be insulting
why? it does nothing for what you present
I won't say more, but I have discussed with plenty of Calvinists on this site and with only a few exceptions, they become angry and frankly rather snotty
makes discussion and or debate personal rather than one of biblical doctrine
this, is the problem that Calvinist's create. not content to debate, which is fine and actually often helps a person understand what they say they believe better as they research, you must needs be insulting
why? it does nothing for what you present
I won't say more, but I have discussed with plenty of Calvinists on this site and with only a few exceptions, they become angry and frankly rather snotty
makes discussion and or debate personal rather than one of biblical doctrine
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1 Peter
1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The Elect are those who have chosen to receive. God knew who would choose at the beginning bcause of an attribute known as foreknowledge (it can't get any plainer than that.)
Yes, and that purpose is to fuel the fires of Hell.
1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The Elect are those who have chosen to receive. God knew who would choose at the beginning bcause of an attribute known as foreknowledge (it can't get any plainer than that.)
Yes, and that purpose is to fuel the fires of Hell.
Surely you have heard that someone is too stick-necked, or too prideful, or too (whatever) to receive the gospel, and at the same time those comments are made, the person making them pats themselves on the back for being so 'open' to hear. I spent a long time with baptists, probably 10 years, before someone shared the doctrines of grace with me. so I made that call from my experience with that group.
As I have said before, most people, including those who are supposed to be calvinist/reformed do not really know the true definitions of our doctrines. I see a lot of 'information' on line that does not represent calvinism or any other "ism" with any degree of real knowlege. Spurgeon called it so-called calvinism because these great bible truths did not begin with that one man. The doctrines of grace include the Trinity and sola scriptura, who argues with that? "Calvinism is based on God's sovereignty over His creation. There is no such thing as a sovereign God having a creation with veto power.
Like I said, I don't judge the unbelief of others, God will do as He has purposed in His own timing.
Yet, here you are putting "calvinists" in one basket and judging all of us alike....of course, "with exceptions". I do not see non-calvinist/non-reformers being exactly nice and polite. I personally have been assigned derogatory names by them. idiot, delusional, apostate, a problem, ...you get the drift.
I agree that is no way to discuss doctrine. I call no one names.......but I confess I have thought it.
L
I didn't address all of the above here and certainly never said a thing about unbelief
this is what I addressed:
Calvinists are in their own little basket by their own admission. I would think they very well may suffer from that pride you have ear marked for others or you might have realized you go too far.
I don't care what names you may have been assigned. Jesus was called a devil for His miracles but that does not mean we need to be called names by those who name Jesus because we should know better. so good that you do not call names, but there are other ways to be insulting as I addressed in your post
I have no expectations you will see that and not make up stories about Christians being full of pride because they choose Christ
that, is an insult that has been made in this forum by others perhaps more deliberate in their intent, but it does not suit anyone
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L
yeah that is not going to work either
there was no nastiness. as I said, Calvinists have a number of expressions that are well and over used by them and you can identify a Calvinist by any one of them since they are so often employed AND refuted
saying those who are not Calvinists and have accepted Christ can be full of pride, is both one of those well used phrases and a simple fact that is what Calvinists do. they insult and they act all holier than thou when someone, in this case me, comes along and says that is not true
not sorry I stepped on your toes
there was no nastiness. as I said, Calvinists have a number of expressions that are well and over used by them and you can identify a Calvinist by any one of them since they are so often employed AND refuted
saying those who are not Calvinists and have accepted Christ can be full of pride, is both one of those well used phrases and a simple fact that is what Calvinists do. they insult and they act all holier than thou when someone, in this case me, comes along and says that is not true
not sorry I stepped on your toes
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