When are we saved ?

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OIC1965

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#361
Sep 19, 2020
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#361
throughfaith said:
We both are claiming this . One of us is drastically wrong . Your on the side of reformed thinking currently. Thats were I believe your set of glasses is affecting how your looking at the verses .
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Your exegesis completely ignores and omits the words “ before the foundation of the world” in Ephesians 1:4-5 and the logical order of Romans 8:28-30

But why are you bringing all that into this thread again. Please stop ✋
 
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throughfaith

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#362
Aug 4, 2020
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#362
OIC1965 said:
I am merely repeating what the Bible says. It is not unclear on this. What it says in Ephesians 1 is undeniable.
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A lot of folks think Romans 9 is clear until they keep reading Romans 10 and 11 . Built within the scriptures is a system that is kinda like hostile jamming . Most cults and false religions ( i see Calvinism very close to this ) operate with ' proof texting ' . The bible is designed to counter this with context and the keep reading principle. All Calminisn needs is ' chosen ' and ' before ' and there off lol
 
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throughfaith

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#363
Aug 4, 2020
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#363
OIC1965 said:
Your exegesis completely ignores and omits the words “ before the foundation of the world” in Ephesians 1:4-5 and the logical order of Romans 8:28-30

But why are you bringing all that into this thread again. Please stop ✋
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Hey this is my thread , so its all good 👍
 
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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#364
OIC1965 said:
Your exegesis completely ignores and omits the words “ before the foundation of the world” in Ephesians 1:4-5 and the logical order of Romans 8:28-30

But why are you bringing all that into this thread again. Please stop ✋
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Our discussion kinda reminds me of this debate . Which is exactly the discussion we are having. Notice sonny's confusion with his reformed thinking on Ephesians 1 .
 
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OIC1965

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#366
Sep 19, 2020
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#366
throughfaith said:
Our discussion kinda reminds me of this debate . Which is exactly the discussion we are having. Notice sonny's confusion with his reformed thinking on Ephesians 1 .
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Probably not my view of these things at all, but I’ll watch it
 
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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#367
OIC1965 said:
Oh,sorry. Didn’t notice

Just so you know, no one is saying we were saved before time. :)
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Some calvinists do say this though . Because of the ' logical' reality of their ' election ' , waiting to be awakened later on . Bit like in hinduism . The tiger sees his reflection finally in the water and realises he was who he was all along .lol
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#369
#369
SoulWeaver said:
I don't know why my post causes opposition, or why you claim that I don't divide the Word, or that I am not realizing things. I'm really not interested to fight Scripture against Scripture, is all.
I merely observed that I wasn't saved yet in the time what I wasn't surrendering all.

Faith comes through hearing the Word of God.
We were saved by grace through faith.
Unless one is born again, they will not see the Kingdom of God.
Those who are fit for the Kingdom do not look back.
The one who loves anything more than Him is not worthy of Him.
All truths.
Wanting to weigh one truth over another and give more importance to certain selected truths and send other truths into the back seat is how all denominations are created. Baptists focus on baptism, Pentecostals focus on gifts, Adventist focuses on the sabbath, and so on. Everybody has something they choose to focus on. I think it's a trap. I really try to stay away from such to the best of my ability, because I believe the whole of the Word should be considered equally.
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I like what you said here about denominations.....very interesting. But wouldn't that constitute the body of Christ or are you suggesting that one church should uphold theses truths equally?
 
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OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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#370
throughfaith said:
Some calvinists do say this though . Because of the ' logical' reality of their ' election ' , waiting to be awakened later on . Bit like in hinduism . The tiger sees his reflection finally in the water and realises he was who he was all along .lol
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Do you know any by name?

Not a Calvinist, but neither mine or Calvinists view is anything like that
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#372
#372
throughfaith said:
Unbelief condemns a person, not because it is an unforgiven sin, but because it is the exclusive point of access to the grace. (Rom. 5:2)

Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)
Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)

Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

When Christ said, “It is finished,” on the cross, everyone was still in their sins as per 1 Cor. 15:17.

Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

Then Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. Now behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. And he sought to see who Jesus was, but could not because of the crowd, for he was of short stature. So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see Him, for He was going to pass that way. And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him, and said to him, “Zacchaeus, make haste and come down, for today I must stay at your house.” So he made haste and came down, and received Him joyfully. But when they saw it, they all complained, saying, “He has gone to be a guest with a man who is a sinner.” Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.” And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

I think salvation is given when true repentance is found
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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#373
You read my post which clearly is After the cross and you give an example under the law and in the OT , why ?
 
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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#374
OIC1965 said:
Do you know any by name?

Not a Calvinist, but neither mine or Calvinists view is anything like that
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If you listen to Sonny ,he's more or less saying that . If someone holds to being chosen before they were born and the atonement was only for the elect, then then ,irresistible grace is just an inevitable formality for the frozen chosen .
 
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OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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#375
throughfaith said:
If you listen to Sonny ,he's more or less saying that . If someone holds to being chosen before they were born and the atonement was only for the elect, then then ,irresistible grace is just an inevitable formality for the frozen chosen .
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But that’s not being saved before time.
 
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OIC1965

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#377
Sep 19, 2020
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#377
throughfaith said:
A lot of folks think Romans 9 is clear until they keep reading Romans 10 and 11 . Built within the scriptures is a system that is kinda like hostile jamming . Most cults and false religions ( i see Calvinism very close to this ) operate with ' proof texting ' . The bible is designed to counter this with context and the keep reading principle. All Calminisn needs is ' chosen ' and ' before ' and there off lol
Click to expand...
There is nothing in Ephesians or anywhere else that mitigates the meaning of chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Not the words “according to”, which simply mean that the blessings given are in accord with election and not verses 6-14,which are speaking of God’s eternal purpose being accomplished in time as God willed/wills it.
 
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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#380
OIC1965 said:
There is nothing in Ephesians or anywhere else that mitigates the meaning of chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Not the words “according to”, which simply mean that the blessings given are in accord with election and not verses 6-14,which are speaking of God’s eternal purpose being accomplished in time as God willed/wills it.
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//in accord with election // This is the problem . You are assuming by ' election ' ( the word ) it means ' God chooses before people are born .
 
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