When are we saved ?

[OIC1965]

New Birth right there.

I do not believe in regeneration before faith, but you do realize that an aorist verb or participle does not always have a temporal aspect, right?

 

[OIC1965]

I do not believe in regeneration before faith, but you do realize that an aorist verb or participle does not always have a temporal aspect, right?

Ephesians 1:13 could be translated “when you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit”.

 

[throughfaith]

I do not believe in regeneration before faith, but you do realize that an aorist verb or participle does not always have a temporal aspect, right?

11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
This is us before we believed .As romantic as we'd like it to be about us Gentiles. God foreknows Israel his first born son . We are never known as individuals before we believe .

 

[throughfaith]

Ephesians 1:13 could be translated “when you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit”.

It says After..

 

[OIC1965]

11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
This is us before we believed .As romantic as we'd like it to be about us Gentiles. God foreknows Israel his first born son . We are never known as individuals before we believe .

It’s good to define your terms. How to you define know?

 

[OIC1965]

It says After..

Not in Greek. That is an interpretive translation.

 

[BenjaminN]

Ephesians 2 (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[throughfaith]

It’s good to define your terms. How to you define know?

I make the distinction between Omniscience and knowing before and knowing as sons .

 

[OIC1965]

It says After..

The word Greek “meta”is not present in the TR or other editions

 

[OIC1965]

I make the distinction between Omniscience and knowing before and knowing as sons .

You’re off topic, but I explained in another place that Ephesians 1:4-5 state that God predestined us to adoption before the earth’s foundation, and that predestination was not arbitrary but based on God’s foreknowledge, as stated in Romans 8:28-30.

Yet we are saved and adopted in time, as the scripture also says.

When we are foreknown and or predestined is a different matter than when we are saved

Two different timelines.

 

[throughfaith]

The word Greek “meta”is not present in the TR or other editions

Did the kjv goof up ? those armatures lol

 

[OIC1965]

Did the kjv goof up ? those armatures lol

Translators are not infallible.

I use the KJV almost exclusively. But translations are not infallible.

 

[throughfaith]

You’re off topic, but I explained in another place that Ephesians 1:4-5 state that God predestined us to adoption before the earth’s foundation, and that predestination was not arbitrary but based on God’s foreknowledge, as stated in Romans 8:28-30.

Yet we are saved and adopted in time, as the scripture also says.

When we are foreknown and or predestined is a different matter than when we are saved

Two different timelines.

I know that's what you keep saying. But it's clear we are only pre - destinated After we believe. Remember how we were as Gentiles in eph 2 ? lost and without hope and without God . God doesn't know us before our parents do .

 

[OIC1965]

Did the kjv goof up ? those armatures lol

I wouldn’t call it a goof up. The meaning of the text is not affected.

After you believed, you were sealed

When you believed you were sealed

Doesn’t change the meaning of what the apostle intends to convey.

 

[OIC1965]

I know that's what you keep saying. But it's clear we are only pre - destinated After we believe. Remember how we were as Gentiles in eph 2 ? lost and without hope and without God . God doesn't know us before our parents do .

I am merely repeating what the Bible says. It is not unclear on this. What it says in Ephesians 1 is undeniable.

 

[throughfaith]

Translators are not infallible.

I use the KJV almost exclusively. But translations are not infallible.

Best we've got .

 

[OIC1965]

Best we've got .

I prefer KJV too.

 

[throughfaith]

I am merely repeating what the Bible says. It is not unclear on this. What it says in Ephesians 1 is undeniable.

We both are claiming this . One of us is drastically wrong . Your on the side of reformed thinking currently. Thats were I believe your set of glasses is affecting how your looking at the verses .

 

[OIC1965]

Best we've got .

The participle could be translated having believed or when you believed. The translators chose one. That’s not a goof up.

 

[throughfaith]

You’re off topic, but I explained in another place that Ephesians 1:4-5 state that God predestined us to adoption before the earth’s foundation, and that predestination was not arbitrary but based on God’s foreknowledge, as stated in Romans 8:28-30.

Yet we are saved and adopted in time, as the scripture also says.

When we are foreknown and or predestined is a different matter than when we are saved

Two different timelines.

Our predestination is our guarantee after we believe. Our soul is saved right now . Our body is not . Thats why we groan and the whole of creation is groaning WAITING for THE ADOPTION. Thats why this reformed post hoc rationalization of " already not yet ' is misplaced with the adoption . Our redemption of the BODY is the adoption and its not done in instalments.