How old is our creation really?

[Skovand]

Nothing against you personally but I have argued with atheists in the past regarding all these matters and even studied certain things to try and debunk them. What I found was that no matter what, we will not change (myself included).

An atheist will believe that order can come into existence from nothing and a Christian will follow the Bible version. In the end if you look at the Bible as a whole and see how accurate prophecies are, I have no reason why I should doubt God's word against mankind's logic.

All knowledge we gain from our worldy position comes from the father of all lies.
Abiogenesis is utter pseudoscience, be honest about it... It’s true...

That is the problem with evolutionists. They use pseudoscience to back up their theory and point at creationists when doing the same in the HOLY Bible. Let us stick with scientific facts and leave wild hypothesis out of it please.

Again nothing about my belief is atheistic. Evolution is not an atheistic concept anymore than gravity or meteorology. The Bible says God makes it rain, and God makes the seasons changes. So does they mean westher science ( meteorology ) is false? The Bible says God heals us so does they mean medicine is false? Luke was a scientist.

I agree 100% with the Bible. The Bible does not teach that the world was literally created in six days. It was not wrote to be understood as literal history and science in genesis. It was wrote to explain a truth. Genesis 1-11 was wrote to be read and understood as Jewish mythology.

Take the rainbow after the flood. Do you really believe God prevented light refraction prior to the flood? You think what it’s teaching there is that light refraction, and therefore rainbows, did not exist prior to after the flood? No. That’s not the point. It’s point was that God won’t destroy the earth again until final judgement. Even then, that language is poetic and symbolic and can be traced back to its true meaning like baptism of fire, lake of fire, undying worm, and eternal fire. All of it can be traced back to Jewish stories in the Bible using that symbolic language.

Just because I don’t literally believe Satan is a dragon or that two sea monsters won’t come out of the water in Revelation does not mean I don’t believe in the Bible.

I believe 100% of the Bible, and I believe it most be read 100% wi Th in its actual worldview and literary style.

 

[Skovand]

This book was suggested by other scientists, and the scientist himself brought it up on BL forums. He essentially says that as a geologist and a Christian who sees the clear evidence of a several billion year old year earth he wrote a book to help harmonize the contention created by literalist. Though I worded it differently.

https://m.barnesandnoble.com/w/friend-of-science-friend-of-faith-gregg-davidson/1132125934

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Heaven seems to be places created for to be occupied, spirit, physical and both ... What do you think heavens are or heaven is ?

Well, in Genesis 1:1 it it appears to me as the expanse
that is dwelling in the eternal light which no man can
approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see:

​

What substance ? good question ..

In the simplest of terms, the physical expanse is formed by the heaven created, being light.

What substance is our soul and spirit made of ?

There is only one time in the NT where the term 'spirit' is used which doesn't translate back to the Greek 4151 pnuema, you might try to find it and see what word it leads to.

Otherwise, the spirit is one of the three that bare witness in the earth, along with the water and the blood, These three form the living system which once the begin to animate the body of flesh, man becomes a living soul. The living soul is the animated flesh, which once it stops breathing the life ends. This is the same construct for any creature, both man and beast.

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Eccl 3:19-20

Since it is written in Gen 2:7, " And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Is it any wonder why Jesus told Nicodemus that unless a man is born of water and the Spirit he shall not enter into the kingdom of God, there is no way that the body of flesh can even be formed without all three, the spirit, water and blood.

Some might not agree that there are three that bear witness in the earth, or that the LORD put the breath of life in every creature of flesh, yet
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. So what is the substance of that our soul is made of, I would hope you can say the all living.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

The Bible does not teach that the world was literally created in six days

So what does your Bible teach is the length of a literal day to him that hath no end of days?

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:3

 

[Skovand]

So what does your Bible teach is the length of a literal day to him that hath no end of days?

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:3

How could there be a literal 24 hours when a sun was not even existed until a few days in?

Again, what does a dragon and sea monster with ten horns mean? Definition of a word is not the same as the context of a story?

 

[bojack]

How could there be a literal 24 hours when a sun was not even existed until a few days in?

Again, what does a dragon and sea monster with ten horns mean? Definition of a word is not the same as the context of a story?

 

[Skovand]

Exactly. Just like those, the story of genesis 1-11 is clearly wrote mythologically. So we can believe 100% of the story without thinking it’s 100% literal.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

How could there be a literal 24 hours when a sun was not even existed until a few days in?

If your literal day is measured by hours then you would come up short a few minutes every day anyways wouldnt it....

Time is simply the measure of the duration of a continuous symmetrical motion of one object, or the repetitive symmetrical motion between two objects that produces a unit of measure for telling time. So why would the the sun be necessary to measure the time of a literal day?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Again, what does a dragon and sea monster with ten horns mean?

Well after the death of Hussein and Kadaifi any remaining unicorns should be included on the endangered species list,

 

[Skovand]

If your literal day is measured by hours then you would come up short a few minutes every day anyways wouldnt it....

Time is simply the measure of the duration of a continuous symmetrical motion of one object, or the repetitive symmetrical motion between two objects that produces a unit of measure for telling time. So why would the the sun be necessary to measure the time of a literal day?

Why? Because that’s what it’s based off of for us lol.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I believe 100% of the Bible, and I believe it most be read 100% wi Th in its actual worldview and literary style.

Without meaning it you are lying because you don't believe 100% of the Bible the Bible says 6 days

So where do you draw the line?

Was Balaam's talking donkey a Jewish myth or the truth?
Was the rain in Noah Jewish myth or the truth?
Was Samson's strength a Jewish myth or the truth?
Was Daniel in the lions den the truth or a Jewish myth?
Was Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego truth or Jewish myth?
Was the fact that the fire in the tabernacle lighted by God everyday a Jewish myth or truth?
Was the Red Sea opening a Jewish myth or truth?
Was the 10 plagues in Egypt Jewish myth or truth?
How about Elijah calling fire from heavens... truth or Jewish myth?
Jonah and the fish. Truth or Jewish myth?

Why stop in the OT?

Jesus changing water into wine. Fact or Christian myth?
Jesus walking on water. Fact or Christian myth?
Jesus raised after 3 days. Fact or Christian myth?
Jesus talking to Satan in the desert. Fact or Christian myth?

Do you see on what slippery slope you are presenting your believes? I can't stand back and say Jewish myth every time my human comprehension is not line with God's word.

The Bible teach us that the word of God is the truth. If it is not so we are calling God a liar, and I will rather say you are a liar than tell God he is a liar.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

How could there be a literal 24 hours when a sun was not even existed until a few days in?

Again, what does a dragon and sea monster with ten horns mean? Definition of a word is not the same as the context of a story?

Do you think God need a watch to tell time ?

 

[Fundamental]

Again nothing about my belief is atheistic. Evolution is not an atheistic concept anymore than gravity or meteorology. The Bible says God makes it rain, and God makes the seasons changes. So does they mean westher science ( meteorology ) is false? The Bible says God heals us so does they mean medicine is false? Luke was a scientist.

I agree 100% with the Bible. The Bible does not teach that the world was literally created in six days. It was not wrote to be understood as literal history and science in genesis. It was wrote to explain a truth. Genesis 1-11 was wrote to be read and understood as Jewish mythology.

Take the rainbow after the flood. Do you really believe God prevented light refraction prior to the flood? You think what it’s teaching there is that light refraction, and therefore rainbows, did not exist prior to after the flood? No. That’s not the point. It’s point was that God won’t destroy the earth again until final judgement. Even then, that language is poetic and symbolic and can be traced back to its true meaning like baptism of fire, lake of fire, undying worm, and eternal fire. All of it can be traced back to Jewish stories in the Bible using that symbolic language.

Just because I don’t literally believe Satan is a dragon or that two sea monsters won’t come out of the water in Revelation does not mean I don’t believe in the Bible.

I believe 100% of the Bible, and I believe it most be read 100% wi Th in its actual worldview and literary style.

What is this? Peeing next to the bowl to me...
I did not call you an atheist, I called you an evolutionist for obvious reasons.

I was addressing we do not share over 90 procent genetic simularity with chimps and there is no origins of new species by mutation. That there were more human like figures before the flood and got extinxt by that global disaster. A long with most bio diversity on this earth having created another ecosystem slash balance on this earth.
The bible teaches literaly the entire creation from God to human took 6 days.
From Adam to modern humans is under 10K years.

You seem to have read more on evolution then in the Bible. But reading both means nothing without proper study. If you studied the genetics you would see that evolution by mutation or speaking of a common ancestor with chimps is complete pseudoscience.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

What is this? Peeing next to the bowl to me...
I did not call you an atheist, I called you an evolutionist for obvious reasons.

I was addressing we do not share over 90 procent genetic simularity with chimps and there is no origins of new species by mutation. That there were more human like figures before the flood and got extinxt by that global disaster. A long with most bio diversity on this earth having created another ecosystem slash balance on this earth.
The bible teaches literaly the entire creation from God to human took 6 days.
From Adam to modern humans is under 10K years.

He answered both of us and I implied he is an atheist.

 

[Fundamental]

A Phd in the world is just another idiot considering God's knowledge. He is the author of all. Satan is the corrupter of all. If you even entertain the theories by atheists you are against God. If you are an atheist then you believe that from chaos order was banged into existence. A bang will destroy... unless it was by the hand of God.

Sad but somehow true. There used to be a time where people wanted to get educated. Now education must fit political ideas. How an “idea” can change “human biology” is beyond me.

Scientists can be awesome, but most are so mainstream and are rather honored with lies then fooled with truth. but I knew, many “nutcrackers” wearing that “tin foil hat” were right when enough time passed.
Truth is often more bizarre then what we dare to imagine in sci fi. There are planets and moons defying everything we currently know about cosmology.

 

[Fundamental]

The info is hard to find these days, Lot's of stuff is hard to find now days .. But the lander pod size design says a lot about what they were prepared for .

Also the speeches they gave right after. As if they witnessed something they could not tell us.

This book was suggested by other scientists, and the scientist himself brought it up on BL forums. He essentially says that as a geologist and a Christian who sees the clear evidence of a several billion year old year earth he wrote a book to help harmonize the contention created by literalist. Though I worded it differently.

https://m.barnesandnoble.com/w/friend-of-science-friend-of-faith-gregg-davidson/1132125934

Let’s say our earth has material on it that is billions of years old or may appear to be that old.
does that mean you evolved from fish and all these others species roaming the earth hundreds of million years? Or were you created by other elements?

 

[Fundamental]

How could there be a literal 24 hours when a sun was not even existed until a few days in?

Again, what does a dragon and sea monster with ten horns mean? Definition of a word is not the same as the context of a story?

This is open for debate. There was clearly a light created on day one dividing the day and night.
(Spicy detail is how God divides to create)

It is only on day four there is spoken of more lights, the moon and stars. That is where lights get purpose to relation on what is created on day 3. No moon no steady seasons and a “drunken” wobble. Light (photosynthesis) and seasons are fine tuned on day 4. This does not mean there is a different light then the sun (on day one) created.

Also for Genesis to be really understood we must also look into Egyptian mythololgy to understand where Moses got his cheese from. And for that to be understood we must travel back all the way into Iraq Sumer. And yet not one person on earth understands lol

 

[mustaphadrink]

He had to create the heavens first to have a place to put it and He obviously created the earth before He could form it and shape it .. Any builder knows first you make a place to put it then your material before you build it, lol

Sorry but I don't know what your point is.

 

[mustaphadrink]

But the main cause is I think; Why would God create mankind out of all these previous species before us?
Why would He take roughly 500 million years to generate a human being out of fish?

Maybe science sees marks where life begins, but wrongfully asumes that species gradually mutated to the next. Fish and birds were created apart from eachother. Mankind did not evolve out of fish. The only Ancestor we share with chimps is GOD.

Sorry, but I do not know what your point is in relation to what I said.

 

[Fundamental]

Sorry, but I do not know what your point is in relation to what I said.

Then you should see the broader picture and the entire context of where this topic is evolving to
The Bible does teach of a young creation. And it teaches an entire different story then what the old model is trying to teach us.
The old model says hydrogen and helium exploded and formed all matter and space. The Bible says God spoke it into being.

If we would create a matrix where our virtual programs or physical AI becomes self aware, we also “spoke” that into existence.
We have been placed on this earth by instant events. There were gradual changes terrascaping this earth, but there were no gradual changes in creating life. Fish, birds, mammals, humans, fall, predators, death. It was not so gradual but abrupt changes reshaping the biology of this earth.