Today’s church’s misunderstandings

[Blik]

Truly.
To insist the Bible states what is not actually there concerning the Sabbath and Jesus' resurrection so as to make our risen Lord to have left the tomb on a Sunday, and therein justify that day as our new Sabbath is a complex effort in contradiction.

The Sabbath is still being recognized only as attending church on Sunday. Further confounding the Biblical record is the implication that Jesus who was God would cancel his own Sabbath day that he created for us. And this in order to arise on the day after Sabbath concluded in order to reconfigure Sabbath to a different day for whom?

When the Apostles recognized the Sabbath day even after Jesus ascended. And there is no mention whatsoever in Jesus words or the writings of the Apostles that that day had been changed to Sunday because their master resurrected on that day.

There is not one scripture that states the Sabbath day was changed to Sunday. And yet, there are schools of thought that insist it is so. And for some incredibly odd reason known only to those committed to the practice, the traditional Sabbath time frame, sundown Friday unto sundown Saturday, is not acceptable.

Nor is recognizing that the first day of the week in scripture, according to Jewish calendar, being Sunday per the scriptures tells us that Jesus had risen prior to that day if we read just John 20:1 .


The Resurrection
John 20:1 Now very early on the first day of the week,[a] while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene[b] came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been moved away from the entrance.[c]
[a] footnote: sn The first day of the week would be early Sunday morning. The Sabbath (and in this year the Passover) would have lasted from 6 p.m. Friday until 6 p.m. Saturday. Sunday would thus mark the first day of the following week.

Jesus was raised on the first Sabbath after Passover.

John 19: 14 (Now it was the day of preparation[ar] for the Passover, about noon.[as])[at] Pilate[au] said to the Jewish leaders,[av] “Look, here is your king!”

15 Then they[aw] shouted out, “Away with him! Away with him![ax] Crucify[ay] him!” Pilate asked,[az] “Shall I crucify your king?” The high priests replied, “We have no king except Caesar!” 16 Then Pilate[ba] handed him over[bb] to them to be crucified.

What we see happening is the high day in scripture is being overlooked.

Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away. (John 19:31, ESV)
Leviticus 23:6-8 states the following:

And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day **Note, this is Nissan 15** you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work. But you shall present a food offering to the Lord for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work. (Leviticus 23:6-8, ESV)

I think the question we have to ask ourselves is, why are all matters pertaining to the feast days, etc... being ignored so as to insist Jesus rose from the grave on a day, Sunday, that scripture does not support. Even considering the Jewish calendar of days. Jesus was already gone from the tomb early on Sunday when it was still dark. Sunday's dark began at sunset on Saturday!

When Jesus was not in the tomb early on Sunday morning while it was still dark, considering the Jewish calendar is Lunisolar and the counting of days is from nightfall to nightfall, Mary and the women coming to the tomb with the herbs and other accouterments to attend Jesus' body and finding the tomb empty were there on Sunday. According to the Hebrew calendar counting of days.

That would mean Jesus was gone from the tomb on Saturday. Because the Hebrew reckoning of days is from nightfall to nightfall. And Sunday would begin at nightfall Saturday unto nightfall Sunday.


John 20:1 Now very early on the first day of the week,[a] while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene[b] came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been moved away from the entrance.[c]
[a] footnote: sn The first day of the week would be early Sunday morning. The Sabbath (and in this year the Passover) would have lasted from 6 p.m. Friday until 6 p.m. Saturday. Sunday would thus mark the first day of the following week.

You explain it well.

To think that Christians say other Christians are of the devil over this Saturday/Sunday reading of scripture, it is beyond belief.

They are trying to outlaw speaking of scripture, saying it is judging others if we tell of scripture. They are freely given permission to state that they believe God changed the Sabbath, but they object to any posting telling that God didn't do that. They seem to feel it is my way or the highway.

God says to accept each other in love, God is the judge of people, not people the judge of others. We are to judge scripture not people. That would mean we can discuss scripture freely without being judged for it.

 

[gb9]

You explain it well.

To think that Christians say other Christians are of the devil over this Saturday/Sunday reading of scripture, it is beyond belief.

They are trying to outlaw speaking of scripture, saying it is judging others if we tell of scripture. They are freely given permission to state that they believe God changed the Sabbath, but they object to any posting telling that God didn't do that. They seem to feel it is my way or the highway.

God says to accept each other in love, God is the judge of people, not people the judge of others. We are to judge scripture not people. That would mean we can discuss scripture freely without being judged for it.

again, God did not change the Sabbath, He just commanded the Jews only to keep it.

so, use your own words. don't judge gentiles who were never commanded to keep the Sabbath, that choose to honor the Lord's day, just as the early church did, long before the romans got involved with Christian affairs.

feel free to honor the Sabbath if you ( or anyone) wants, but do not condem those who choose to honor the day Christ rose ( sun, after the Sabbath had passed). instead.

 

[lenna]

They are trying to outlaw speaking of scripture, saying it is judging others if we tell of scripture. They are freely given permission to state that they believe God changed the Sabbath, but they object to any posting telling that God didn't do that. They seem to feel it is my way or the highway.

rubbish and nonsensical claims but what else would anyone expect but exactly that

some nebulous 'they' (really she means all who do not agree with her) want to outlaw 'speaking of scripture'

gobbledegook

 

[Blik]

again, God did not change the Sabbath, He just commanded the Jews only to keep it.

so, use your own words. don't judge gentiles who were never commanded to keep the Sabbath, that choose to honor the Lord's day, just as the early church did, long before the romans got involved with Christian affairs.

feel free to honor the Sabbath if you ( or anyone) wants, but do not condem those who choose to honor the day Christ rose ( sun, after the Sabbath had passed). instead.

I don't see how you can find in scripture that God ever was for Jews only! If you will use your concordance for the words "strangers" and "sojourners" you will find over and over that God says he is not for Jews only. The only time scripture tells us Jews only is when gentiles were told by James brother of Christ that gentiles did not need to follow Jewish customs.

Jews were set apart for the benefit of gentiles, they were to show gentiles the one true God because God loves all men not Jews only. God tells us rain falls on all men, all men are His children. Not Jews only!!! The Lord has even stated that they are blinded to Christ by God for our sakes.

 

[Blik]

rubbish and nonsensical claims but what else would anyone expect but exactly that

some nebulous 'they' (really she means all who do not agree with her) want to outlaw 'speaking of scripture'

gobbledegook

I have read some of your posts in which you speak truth of the lord. Why choose to be a personal enemy? Can't you please stop it. I ask the Lord to surround you with His love, please listen to the Lord.

 

[gb9]

I don't see how you can find in scripture that God ever was for Jews only! If you will use your concordance for the words "strangers" and "sojourners" you will find over and over that God says he is not for Jews only. The only time scripture tells us Jews only is when gentiles were told by James brother of Christ that gentiles did not need to follow Jewish customs.

Jews were set apart for the benefit of gentiles, they were to show gentiles the one true God because God loves all men not Jews only. God tells us rain falls on all men, all men are His children. Not Jews only!!! The Lord has even stated that they are blinded to Christ by God for our sakes.

right on what you said about what James said in Acts 15.

Sabbath keeping was and is a jewish custom. and since gentiles were never commanded to keep it, neither did James.

look at Psalms 147- it clearly states that the Law was given to Israel only in the last few lines of that Psalms.

 

[Moses_Young]

I don't see how you can find in scripture that God ever was for Jews only! If you will use your concordance for the words "strangers" and "sojourners" you will find over and over that God says he is not for Jews only. The only time scripture tells us Jews only is when gentiles were told by James brother of Christ that gentiles did not need to follow Jewish customs.

What I don't understand about your position is how do you know which Jewish customs to keep? The strangers and sojourners with Israel were required to be circumcised in order to participate in Israelite society. How can one promote participation in other Jewish customs without recognising this importance of circumcision? And how can one place such importance on circumcision without rejecting the New Testament, which shows it is not required for believers? Isn't promotion of Jewish customs the same as what the Judaisers were doing in Galatia? If not, how not?

 

[lenna]

I have read some of your posts in which you speak truth of the lord. Why choose to be a personal enemy? Can't you please stop it. I ask the Lord to surround you with His love, please listen to the Lord.

well why do you take it personally?

if I took all your posts to me in a personal manner rather than a big difference in doctrine, I would report you every 5 minutes

I'm not going to stop anything. this is a public forum and I, like everyone else here including yourself, post within the TOS.

this isn't the Bible according to Blik forum so you are out of line here.

you do not speak for God to me.. you do not have a message for me from God. that is manipulation and very distasteful

 

[lenna]

To think that Christians say other Christians are of the devil over this Saturday/Sunday reading of scripture, it is beyond belief.

oh my lands

and you wonder why I respond as I do

in your op YOU state that about Christians who do not observe the Sabbath. you say that we are of the devil

from your op...that would be the very first post of this thread:

Scripture tells us to celebrate Christ with Passover, the church says God cancelled that. They made up a new way to do it and named it using pagan gods to inspire them to make up a name for this replacement.

Demons are attracted to the church, undermining it is undermining the Lord. They have done a mighty work, they will still fail in the end.

and you say worse further into your thread. your post 249

Certainly not the true church of the Lord, or even of the earthly organized church that truly believes in all scripture. But I speak of the churches like six of the churches told of in Revelation that were not pleasing to God.

this was your response when another poster asked you what church you were referring to in your op

it is incredible that you just refuse to take responsibility for the outrageous things you say and then tell someone they are picking on you and God told you tell them to quit

you know, I don't think you are as sweet as you try to paint yourself.

some of your comments are outrageous and it is that judgmental and false spirit that I contend with. it is not personal

 

[Blik]

What I don't understand about your position is how do you know which Jewish customs to keep? The strangers and sojourners with Israel were required to be circumcised in order to participate in Israelite society. How can one promote participation in other Jewish customs without recognising this importance of circumcision? And how can one place such importance on circumcision without rejecting the New Testament, which shows it is not required for believers? Isn't promotion of Jewish customs the same as what the Judaisers were doing in Galatia? If not, how not?

We have to look to the Lord to see what Jewish customs to keep, we have to put on the mind of the Lord. That means we need to wipe out all the fleshly reasons and thoughts we are bombarded with over the years and simply listen to the Lord.

If we think like the Lord thinks, love is at the base of everything. So it is not "Jewish custom" the Lord looks at, that is told to us humans. The Lord looks at the love. Cutting flesh and selecting food has nothing to do with love, it is a Jewish custom. To feast in celebration of Christ as Passover is has love, and we are told it is for all people forever, it is to be kept.

For each decision we must make, we need to clear our minds of men's thoughts and put on God, and God is in scripture. God is in love.

 

[Blik]

oh my lands

and you wonder why I respond as I do

in your op YOU state that about Christians who do not observe the Sabbath. you say that we are of the devil

from your op...that would be the very first post of this thread:

Scripture tells us to celebrate Christ with Passover, the church says God cancelled that. They made up a new way to do it and named it using pagan gods to inspire them to make up a name for this replacement.

Demons are attracted to the church, undermining it is undermining the Lord. They have done a mighty work, they will still fail in the end.

and you say worse further into your thread. your post 249

Certainly not the true church of the Lord, or even of the earthly organized church that truly believes in all scripture. But I speak of the churches like six of the churches told of in Revelation that were not pleasing to God.

this was your response when another poster asked you what church you were referring to in your op

it is incredible that you just refuse to take responsibility for the outrageous things you say and then tell someone they are picking on you and God told you tell them to quit

you know, I don't think you are as sweet as you try to paint yourself.

some of your comments are outrageous and it is that judgmental and false spirit that I contend with. it is not personal

You are right in that sweet I am certainly not. I am a wrinkled 96 year old woman who loves the Lord and spends my days with Him as I am isolated from most humans except caregivers in a care home.

And I listened to M. Scott Peck, a doctor, who found that evil people were attracted to the church as a cover for their evil ways and I think he is right about that. I believe scripture, not men, and I think God loves the praise of Christ that Passover represents. I even believe that God created a seventh day for us at creation. So sue me!

 

[lenna]

You are right in that sweet I am certainly not. I am a wrinkled 96 year old woman who loves the Lord and spends my days with Him as I am isolated from most humans except caregivers in a care home.

And I listened to M. Scott Peck, a doctor, who found that evil people were attracted to the church as a cover for their evil ways and I think he is right about that. I believe scripture, not men, and I think God loves the praise of Christ that Passover represents. I even believe that God created a seventh day for us at creation. So sue me!

 

[lenna]

We have to look to the Lord to see what Jewish customs to keep

the answer would be none. keep all you want personally but stop judging others and saying things like you did in your op

no, you are not sweet. that, I can agree with

 

[lenna]

I listened to M. Scott Peck, a doctor, who found that evil people were attracted to the church as a cover for their evil ways

Peck the self help author? (I did have to look him up)

perhaps a little less Peck and a little more Paul?

 

[Blik]

Thanks for not responding with your completely negative, if not hate messages.

 

[lenna]

Thanks for not responding with your completely negative, if not hate messages.

You are right in that sweet I am certainly not.

uh huh

 

[Blik]

You posted AGAINST those who think we can basically come to sinlessness.

when you post like that, your going to get those who come back like your saying, because in effect your posting for sinlessness.

no one has a problem with obedience. What we have a problem with is those trying to put us back under law. Rejecting Grace, focusing on obedience rather than service, speaking of law not love. And putting all these things as requirements to earn or maintain salvation.

i am teaching this week in 1 cor 8. Eating meat sacrificed to idols, it’s amazing when you look at scripture it speaks of those who are week in faith. It’s no those who are legalistic focusing on rules. It is those focusing on rules. It’s those pushing serving one day vs ever day (the saterday/Sunday debate) those who think we need to obstain from meat who eat only vegetables, those tho think we have to obey all these rules, instead of those out loving and serving The world so we can bring sinners to salvation, basically those who live and teach others to continue to live in fear, in the jews of pauls day, it would be those afraid to leave the law, in today’s view, it Would be those afraid to leave the rules and tradition of their particular churches, yet they talk like they do not live in fear but of how much they love god proven by all the rules they follow.

I have never, ever posted "against those". I state what I think scripture tells me, and you are to state what you think scripture tells you. It is not against "those".

People get the rules pretty mixed up, don't they? When Christ was here he got in trouble with the Pharisees over rules. Christ lived the rule of love, and what he did flowed from that.

Paul pointed out that if what we believe in doing was so against the rules that we became one with the sin of breaking the rules we were not of God. He went on to list things like drunkenness. Paul said our righteousness was not something we did but it was accepting the righteousness of Christ. He also said if we say we are sinless we are not telling the truth.

 

[Blik]

again, God did not change the Sabbath, He just commanded the Jews only to keep it.

so, use your own words. don't judge gentiles who were never commanded to keep the Sabbath, that choose to honor the Lord's day, just as the early church did, long before the romans got involved with Christian affairs.

feel free to honor the Sabbath if you ( or anyone) wants, but do not condem those who choose to honor the day Christ rose ( sun, after the Sabbath had passed). instead.

I SO agree! We are not to judge others, ever. But we are to listen to scripture. David in Psalm 119:18 asked the Lord to open his eyes that he could see wonderous things from the Lord's Torah. If you see, in scripture, that the Lord cancelled the Sabbath, you need to say so, I may not judge you for your walk with the Lord. In the same way, if I see in scripture that the Lord didn't cancel the Sabbath for all men and don't see any "Jews only" in scripture, I need to say so. We are told not to judge each other only scripture.

 

[lenna]

To think that Christians say other Christians are of the devil over this Saturday/Sunday reading of scripture, it is beyond belief.

and also blik

Demons are attracted to the church, undermining it is undermining the Lord. They have done a mighty work, they will still fail in the end.

 

[49]

Smh.....