Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#161
Nov 20, 2018
23,852
8,627
113
#161
EleventhHour said:
Anyone who states God chooses a select group over another group is espousing hyper-Calvinism.
Click to expand...
It's not "A" select group it's "HIS" select group.
Makes all the difference in the world.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#162
Nov 20, 2018
23,852
8,627
113
#162
John146 said:
Predestination has to do with the foreknowledge of God. Before God predestines anyone, He must first know them as a son. Now that God has foreknowledge of one as a son, God predestines them for the future adoption of sons. That's the destination of the believer, the redemption of the body.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Click to expand...
Are you specifying that God is looking forward into the future to see who would heed the call (and thereby believe) and upon confirmation of same (by an act of observation) God retroactively tiks off the "foreknown" and "predestined" boxes, securing this person's salvation for eternity?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#163
#163
cv5 said:
It's not "A" select group it's "HIS" select group.
Makes all the difference in the world.
Click to expand...
If He selects Group A then by default He has not selected Group B
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#165
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#165
EleventhHour said:
This is "irresistible grace" only worded differently.
Click to expand...
Actually, it’s not.

In Romans 8:30, is everyone there justified and glorified who are called?

How about Romans 8:28

Effectual means it accomplishes what it is intended to accomplish. Does God’s call ever accomplish what it is intended to accomplish?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#166
Jan 13, 2016
17,184
3,702
113
#166
cv5 said:
Are you specifying that God is looking forward into the future to see who would heed the call (and thereby believe) and upon confirmation of same (by an act of observation) God retroactively tiks off the "foreknown" and "predestined" boxes, securing this person's salvation for eternity?
Click to expand...
Nope. God doesn't know one as His son until they believe upon Jesus. Once one believes, God predestines them to the future adoption, which is the redemption of the body. It's when the believer will be conformed to the image of Christ.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#167
#167
throughfaith said:
Do you hold to previenient grace ? if not irresistible. I call this Soft calvinisms answer to irresistible grace .
Click to expand...
how do we expect
To have any kind of meaningful discussion if everything is looked at with a Calvinist it Anti Calvinist view. How can you hear what the other is saying and properly understand what he truly believes
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#168
#168
OIC1965 said:
Yes, God can show mercy when He wills and judicially harden whom He will and none of us can say “what are you doing”?

But in anticipation to protests, He does nothing arbitrarily. What He chooses is both infinitely righteous and wise.
Click to expand...
Let’s remember. Harden actually means to strengthen ones own will.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#170
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#170
eternally-gratefull said:
how do we expect
To have any kind of meaningful discussion if everything is looked at with a Calvinist it Anti Calvinist view. How can you hear what the other is saying and properly understand what he truly believes
Click to expand...
True. Well said. Let’s exclude Calvin terms and stick to Biblical terms.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#171
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#171
eternally-gratefull said:
Let’s remember. Harden actually means to strengthen ones own will.
Click to expand...
But God gives people over to that at times, right? He judicially removes HIS Hand of restraint?

Do you believe God restrains evil in some cases, and removes restraint in others?

For example, it is said He sends strong delusion. Is that sending accomplished by removing that which restrains?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#172
Nov 20, 2018
23,852
8,627
113
#172
EleventhHour said:
If He selects Group A then by default He has not selected Group B
Click to expand...
The point I am making is that if God Himself is in fact doing the choosing, then we can be assured that it is a righteous and just choice, furthermore, being a choice originating from Himself, He has the inherent right to do it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#174
#174
OIC1965 said:
Paul is referring toro Gospel calling in Romans 8:29-30.

This is not intended to be a thread in defense of Calvinism nor is it intended to be a polemic against it. I intended to try to stick to biblical terms.
Click to expand...
Lol I warned ya!

However there has been some good stuff
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#175
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#175
EleventhHour said:
Anyone who states God chooses a select group over another group is espousing hyper-Calvinism.
Click to expand...
Hyper Calvinism is Calvinism taken to the extreme to where evangelism and soul winning is rejected.

God only elects believers. He does not elect those who persist in unbelief. So He does “choose” one over another, right?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#176
Nov 20, 2018
23,852
8,627
113
#176
EleventhHour said:
This is "irresistible grace" only worded differently.
Click to expand...
I think the point we can find in Romans 8 is that the "call" to the "predestined" is infallibly effective.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#177
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#177
OIC1965 said:
Hyper Calvinism is Calvinism taken to the extreme to where evangelism and soul winning is rejected.

God only elects believers. He does not elect those who persist in unbelief. So He does “choose” one over another, right?
Click to expand...
I’m trying to get people to think outside of boxes. Might fail, but doesn’t hurt to try.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#179
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#179
cv5 said:
Well, actually there is component here in the term foreknowledge, and that component is the human relational element.
Click to expand...
Divine foreknowledge means ABSOLUTE foreknowledge -- the person, his thoughts, words, motives and actions.

God knew from the very beginning all those who would believe on His Son and receive Him as Lord and Savior. But His plan of salvation did not stop at simply delivering them from Hell, and from their sins and guilt. God went well beyond that and planned for each of His children to be transformed into exact replicas of His perfect Son. Thus those whom He justified, He also glorified.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#180
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#180
eternally-gratefull said:
how do we expect
To have any kind of meaningful discussion if everything is looked at with a Calvinist it Anti Calvinist view. How can you hear what the other is saying and properly understand what he truly believes
Click to expand...
I think you can see I'm predominantly using scriptures . But it is crucial to see the calvinistic worldview at influence here .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.