Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

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OIC1965

Well-known member
#181
Sep 19, 2020
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#181
throughfaith said:
I think you can see I'm predominantly using scriptures . But it is crucial to see the calvinistic worldview at influence here .
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The goal is to look at as much as possible without a lens. My replies are not from studying Calvinism. In fact, I come from quite the opposite background.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#182
Nov 20, 2018
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#182
John146 said:
Nope. God doesn't know one as His son until they believe upon Jesus. Once one believes, God predestines them to the future adoption, which is the redemption of the body. It's when the believer will be conformed to the image of Christ.
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I can't agree with you there.
We are predestined to be justified (believe).
We are not justified (believe) to be predestined.

Eph 1:3-5 (to which you are referring) is saying the same thing but it just jumps a few gaps.

Furthermore we are being conformed to the image of Christ day by day, here and now if we maintain obedience.

2Cor 3;18
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#183
Aug 4, 2020
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#183
eternally-gratefull said:
how do we expect
To have any kind of meaningful discussion if everything is looked at with a Calvinist it Anti Calvinist view. How can you hear what the other is saying and properly understand what he truly believes
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Surely you can see what I'm saying in the responses from the calvinists ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#184
#184
cv5 said:
Hhhmmmmm.
Well, looking at all of those scriptures that you quoted, all of the persons denoted as called are already and actually saved. Likewise 2Corinthians the individuals DOING the calling are likewise already and actually saved.

So I don't see two callings there. Just one effectual and already consummated call. Just one link in the golden chain of redemption.

Whew. 2Cor 5 is a dynamite chapter. Just saying. Wow. Need to read it more often!
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Agree all the verses he posted are concerning salvation
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#185
Sep 19, 2020
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#185
throughfaith said:
Surely you can see what I'm saying in the responses from the calvinists ?
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He responded to a reply made to me, and I’m not a Calvinist. My views are closer to the Remonstrants, though I do not fit in that category either. (I do not hold to article 5 of the Remonstrants, for example).
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#186
Nov 20, 2018
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#186
Nehemiah6 said:
Divine foreknowledge means ABSOLUTE foreknowledge -- the person, his thoughts, words, motives and actions.

God knew from the very beginning all those who would believe on His Son and receive Him as Lord and Savior. But His plan of salvation did not stop at simply delivering them from Hell, and from their sins and guilt. God went well beyond that and planned for each of His children to be transformed into exact replicas of His perfect Son. Thus those whom He justified, He also glorified.
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Certainly God has complete and infallible knowledge and omniscience of all objects incidences and events. This is true.

However, when dealing with His redeemed, His people, His sons and daughters, the emphasis is on a predetermined relationship. I think the scripture goes out of its way to substantiate this point.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#187
Jan 13, 2016
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#187
cv5 said:
I can't agree with you there.
We are predestined to be justified (believe).
We are not justified (believe) to be predestined.
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I stated neither of these two. The believer is predestined for the adoption. The adoption is the future redemption of the body. That's Scripture. The moment someone calls upon the Lord for salvation, he/she is justified and called and predestined for the future redemption of the body.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#190
#190
OIC1965 said:
True. Well said. Let’s exclude Calvin terms and stick to Biblical terms.
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AMEN, it would make things so much easier, and probably less bickering and more understanding
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#191
#191
OIC1965 said:
But God gives people over to that at times, right? He judicially removes HIS Hand of restraint?

Do you believe God restrains evil in some cases, and removes restraint in others?

For example, it is said He sends strong delusion. Is that sending accomplished by removing that which restrains?
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The Bible says God hardened pharaohs heart, in one view you have it means he prevented him from doing something, I. The actual text using the word properly, it means god strengthened his heart so he would do what he wanted to do in the first place,

I do believe god can restrain, look at jonah, he restrained him from doing what he wanted to do. but he did not force him against his will, jonah still had free will
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#192
#192
cv5 said:
The point I am making is that if God Himself is in fact doing the choosing, then we can be assured that it is a righteous and just choice, furthermore, being a choice originating from Himself, He has the inherent right to do it.
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As long as it goes within his character, yes.

when it is outside his character, we need to rethink our position
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#193
#193
OIC1965 said:
Hyper Calvinism is Calvinism taken to the extreme to where evangelism and soul winning is rejected.

God only elects believers. He does not elect those who persist in unbelief. So He does “choose” one over another, right?
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Amen, he elected believers, or those who see and believe,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#194
#194
OIC1965 said:
I’m trying to get people to think outside of boxes. Might fail, but doesn’t hurt to try.
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Praying bro

sadly some people can’t see outside their boxes..lol
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#195
Nov 20, 2018
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#195
John146 said:
I stated neither of these two. The believer is predestined for the adoption. The adoption is the future redemption of the body. That's Scripture. The moment someone calls upon the Lord for salvation, he/she is justified and called and predestined for the future redemption of the body.
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"Nope. God doesn't know one as His son until they believe upon Jesus. Once (until/when?) one believes, (then?) God predestines them to the future adoption, which is the redemption of the body. It's when the believer will be conformed to the image of Christ."

I see (possibly erroneously?) some timing and precedent issues here that are what I perceive to be inverted. That's what I was trying to point out.

Paul lays out the sequencing and precedents very clearly. We would do well to adhere to it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#196
#196
throughfaith said:
I think you can see I'm predominantly using scriptures . But it is crucial to see the calvinistic worldview at influence here .
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when you do that, you fail to see what a person may be saying your always looking for some calvinist twist.

it is what prevents much conversation.

plus You give calvin way to much credit, rome has more influence than calvin ever did,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#197
#197
OIC1965 said:
The goal is to look at as much as possible without a lens. My replies are not from studying Calvinism. In fact, I come from quite the opposite background.
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Exactly, he does use scripture, but he see them through a calvin lens or in his case an anti calvin lens
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#198
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
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#198
John146 said:
I stated neither of these two. The believer is predestined for the adoption. The adoption is the future redemption of the body. That's Scripture. The moment someone calls upon the Lord for salvation, he/she is justified and called and predestined for the future redemption of the body.
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Yes, the believer is predestined for adoption.

Yes, the future redemption of the body is one aspect of adoption.

Yes, the moment a person calls on the Lord, he or she is justified.

But call comes before faith and predesination comes before call. Romans 8:30 gives the chain in its logical order. Predestined, called, justified, glorified.

Or we all can agree to disagree on this point.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#199
#199
throughfaith said:
Surely you can see what I'm saying in the responses from the calvinists ?
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What calvinist? I see maybe one here, the rest of us have no calvinist view whatsoever,

like I said your looking for things that are not there,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#200
#200
OIC1965 said:
He responded to a reply made to me, and I’m not a Calvinist. My views are closer to the Remonstrants, though I do not fit in that category either. (I do not hold to article 5 of the Remonstrants, for example).
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Forgive me, but what is a remonstrant?
 
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