Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I am kind of in the middle here, so there are things I will disagree with on both sides. I will say here that I do not believe man’s rejection of God’s Grace if offered to all harms His Sovereignty. Those are the vessel He endured with much long suffering, fitted for destruction. There is a compatibility between man’s responsibility and Gods sovereignty.
We all must agree those are some magnificent passages.
2Thess 2:13-15
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
There is every reason to believe that being chosen/election is the driving force and reason for what follows.......belief.
Please note that Paul is thanking God for the belief that the Thessalonians now possess.
Paul is NOT thanking the Thessalonians for their faith, their believing and their works.
It is self evident that God Himself is taking the initiative in doing the works here.
2Thess 2:13-15
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
There is every reason to believe that being chosen/election is the driving force and reason for what follows.......belief.
Please note that Paul is thanking God for the belief that the Thessalonians now possess.
Paul is NOT thanking the Thessalonians for their faith, their believing and their works.
It is self evident that God Himself is taking the initiative in doing the works here.
-
2
- Show all
I absolutely agree. There is a compatibility, a synthesis, a synchronicity going on here.
However to abandon election and God's will in the matter is foolhardy and unscriptural.
I've said it before and I'll say it again God's election is boilerplate doctrine.
I think everyone here can agree that no one in the history of theology and Christianity has nailed the door shut on these issues.
However to abandon election and God's will in the matter is foolhardy and unscriptural.
I've said it before and I'll say it again God's election is boilerplate doctrine.
I think everyone here can agree that no one in the history of theology and Christianity has nailed the door shut on these issues.
-
1
- Show all
Cv5, do you think the statement below is unsound doctrinally, or would you agree in part or in whole? Let me know
On further reflection, I think there is a sense where corporate election is true. And also individual election is true.
The Jews were promised the land and were given the oracles of God because of the promise God made to the Patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They were beneficiaries to the immutable promises God made to the Patriarchs. Immutable in that they had a certain fulfillment, but the ultimate fulfillment and continued fulfillment would only be received by those who were not only children according to geneology, but also children according to the faith of Abraham
Just as the promises to the Jews were certain due to the immutable promises God made to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and their identification with Him, the promises of the New Covenant with a better hope, a better Mediator, better promises, a better land, etc are granted and certain to us who believe because of our identification and union with Christ.
Chosen in Him
But it is also a personal election because the Lord from eternity has known who are His, and He has loved us as individuals from everlasting to everlasting and predestinated us to be an adoption and to be conformed to the image of Christ before we were born, even before the earth’s foundation
Ie. Foreknowledge.
On further reflection, I think there is a sense where corporate election is true. And also individual election is true.
The Jews were promised the land and were given the oracles of God because of the promise God made to the Patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They were beneficiaries to the immutable promises God made to the Patriarchs. Immutable in that they had a certain fulfillment, but the ultimate fulfillment and continued fulfillment would only be received by those who were not only children according to geneology, but also children according to the faith of Abraham
Just as the promises to the Jews were certain due to the immutable promises God made to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and their identification with Him, the promises of the New Covenant with a better hope, a better Mediator, better promises, a better land, etc are granted and certain to us who believe because of our identification and union with Christ.
Chosen in Him
But it is also a personal election because the Lord from eternity has known who are His, and He has loved us as individuals from everlasting to everlasting and predestinated us to be an adoption and to be conformed to the image of Christ before we were born, even before the earth’s foundation
Ie. Foreknowledge.
Oh! If only... 
I do however have opinions you know. Which I am free to express correct?
Freedom of speech and all that.
-
1
- Show all