"Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together" - Heb. 10:25
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I am not quite sure what you are trying to say overall, but just one small point if I have read this correctly. The NTC did not preach the gospel in their meetings.
You will find that the Lord added daily those that were being saved. so it was a work of the holy spirit and if you look at the background to the NTC you will see that a lot of the converts took place because of the fact that they lived lives that were diametrically opposed to what was normal.
As an example, if a wife was widowed whilst young and that was quite common, there was no welfare to fall back on so many of them had to become a prostitute to survive.
Not so with the church because they looked after widows making that course necessary.
The other thing is that those who were not part of the church noticed how much they loved each other and cared for one another. It is those sort of things that convinced peope this was the real deal and made them want to be part of it.
Overall, if they had to give an account for what they believed their response was always the same. Jesus was the Messiah and Saviour.
You will find that the Lord added daily those that were being saved. so it was a work of the holy spirit and if you look at the background to the NTC you will see that a lot of the converts took place because of the fact that they lived lives that were diametrically opposed to what was normal.
As an example, if a wife was widowed whilst young and that was quite common, there was no welfare to fall back on so many of them had to become a prostitute to survive.
Not so with the church because they looked after widows making that course necessary.
The other thing is that those who were not part of the church noticed how much they loved each other and cared for one another. It is those sort of things that convinced peope this was the real deal and made them want to be part of it.
Overall, if they had to give an account for what they believed their response was always the same. Jesus was the Messiah and Saviour.
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Well, it looks to me like they did explain the gospel within their church meetings too. Though as you say, they also did much evangelization outside of the church too - which I'm sure helped to bring a lot more to Christ than if they hadn't done so. I can see evidences of Paul's warning Christians against falling away from Christ, too, numbers of times throughout his books addressed to churches and written throughout much of the New Testament. He also explained how to remain firm in the faith. Below, are some verses I can look up and post, that would give proof, I feel, that the gospel was also taught by Christians in their worship gatherings:
Rom 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
KJV
1 Cor 14:22-25
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
KJV
Above, he explained that the gift of tongues was to be used primarily for speaking to unbelievers outside of the church. And that spiritual teachings within the church, should be understandable and beneficial both to believers and unbelievers who might be present. Though it's true, the majority would be Christians in the church - that's true.
Rom 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
KJV
1 Cor 14:22-25
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
KJV
Above, he explained that the gift of tongues was to be used primarily for speaking to unbelievers outside of the church. And that spiritual teachings within the church, should be understandable and beneficial both to believers and unbelievers who might be present. Though it's true, the majority would be Christians in the church - that's true.
Yes the reformation came. The abomination of desolation king in Israel lording it over the faith of others is put to rest The government is restored back the period of Judges spoken of in Joel fulfilled in Acts.
Joel 3: 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 3: 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
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LOL!
most Christians read their Bibles legalistically? don't you mean not all Christians agree with the way you disassemble the Bible?
if everyone handled the Bible as you appear to do, it wouldn't be long until we would toss that big ole book in favor of opinions
you have absolutely no proof of 'most' in the way you employ it here. according to you, the gospels are legalistic if anyone cares to apply them, including anything Jesus said; James is not for Christians at all and Acts is almost a work of fiction that Christians should skip over
case in point
I dunno. is there such a thing as the 50% believer? (not really asking)
most Christians read their Bibles legalistically? don't you mean not all Christians agree with the way you disassemble the Bible?
if everyone handled the Bible as you appear to do, it wouldn't be long until we would toss that big ole book in favor of opinions
you have absolutely no proof of 'most' in the way you employ it here. according to you, the gospels are legalistic if anyone cares to apply them, including anything Jesus said; James is not for Christians at all and Acts is almost a work of fiction that Christians should skip over
case in point
I dunno. is there such a thing as the 50% believer? (not really asking)
I'm not sure what that "Abomination of Desolation" refers to - and like many prophetic scriptures - probably isn't understood the same by all Christians. I have wondered too, if it referred to something in Israel's history. But then, that chapter ends with referring to Christ's return. So I'm not sure.
As the passage you mentioned in Joel indicates, under the New Covenant, God's Spirit is more fully guiding His people, than was possible under the Old Covenant, which was before Jesus died on the cross.
As the passage you mentioned in Joel indicates, under the New Covenant, God's Spirit is more fully guiding His people, than was possible under the Old Covenant, which was before Jesus died on the cross.
The early Christians had the burden of spreading the brand new unknown Gospel unto the entire world unlike today's age where many people are Christians already and everyone in America is aware of Christianity. As such, we don't have a pressing need to congregate like the early Christians did. I am all for congregation, but if I am forbidden by the authorities from congregating, I don't believe we have this "do or die" need to congregate that early Christians did have, thanks to God's grace upon us today.
Godspeed.
Godspeed.
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L
I was going to post but seems lenna beat me to it
Anyway right now whats happening to the Church in the US is nothing compared to say China/Iran where they risk their lifes to just come together.
Amen nothing else needs to be said "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."
Anyway right now whats happening to the Church in the US is nothing compared to say China/Iran where they risk their lifes to just come together.
Amen nothing else needs to be said "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."
you cannot exhort one another if you live in isolation on an island in the dangerous seas of this tumultuous world
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L
do you live in a cave? with no tv or radio?
anyway, your posts do indicate you do not value the exhortation of other Christians
you fail to understand or realize that our Christian ancestors spread the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ IN SPITE of the authorities
there is only one force behind trying to keep the gospel under wraps. his name is satan
L
well that would work also, so let me take you to task
New International Version
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."
New Living Translation
For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.”
English Standard Version
For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
Berean Study Bible
For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.”
Berean Literal Bible
For where two or three are gathered together unto My name, there am I in their midst."
New American Standard Bible
"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."
New King James Version
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
King James Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Christian Standard Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there among them."
Contemporary English Version
Whenever two or three of you come together in my name, I am there with you.
Good News Translation
For where two or three come together in my name, I am there with them."
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there among them."
International Standard Version
because where two or three have come together in my name, I am there among them."
NET Bible
For where two or three are assembled in my name, I am there among them."
New Heart English Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them."
A Faithful Version
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there, I am in the midst of them."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For where two or three are assembled in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Where two or three have come together in my name, I am there among them."
New American Standard 1977
“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst.”
King James 2000 Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
American King James Version
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the middle of them.
American Standard Version
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Douay-Rheims Bible
For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Darby Bible Translation
For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them.
English Revised Version
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Webster's Bible Translation
For where two or three are assembled in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Weymouth New Testament
For where there are two or three assembled in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
World English Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them."
Young's Literal Translation
for where there are two or three gathered together -- to my name, there am I in the midst of them.'
New International Version
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."
New Living Translation
For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.”
English Standard Version
For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
Berean Study Bible
For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.”
Berean Literal Bible
For where two or three are gathered together unto My name, there am I in their midst."
New American Standard Bible
"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."
New King James Version
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
King James Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Christian Standard Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there among them."
Contemporary English Version
Whenever two or three of you come together in my name, I am there with you.
Good News Translation
For where two or three come together in my name, I am there with them."
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there among them."
International Standard Version
because where two or three have come together in my name, I am there among them."
NET Bible
For where two or three are assembled in my name, I am there among them."
New Heart English Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them."
A Faithful Version
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there, I am in the midst of them."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For where two or three are assembled in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Where two or three have come together in my name, I am there among them."
New American Standard 1977
“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst.”
King James 2000 Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
American King James Version
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the middle of them.
American Standard Version
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Douay-Rheims Bible
For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Darby Bible Translation
For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them.
English Revised Version
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Webster's Bible Translation
For where two or three are assembled in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Weymouth New Testament
For where there are two or three assembled in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
World English Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them."
Young's Literal Translation
for where there are two or three gathered together -- to my name, there am I in the midst of them.'
WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST
YES, THAT'S RIGHT
YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THE GOSPELS APPLY TO US
THAT, IS A HERETICAL VIEWPOINT IMO
YES, THAT'S RIGHT
YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THE GOSPELS APPLY TO US
THAT, IS A HERETICAL VIEWPOINT IMO
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Context .
15¶Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18¶Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19¶Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21¶Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22¶Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
This above is about how Jesus being in a agreement about: " 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And :
19¶Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21¶Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
its not about 2 or 3 Christians huddled together, Jesus is with them in a bible study or Tuesday night prayer meeting.
15¶Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18¶Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19¶Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21¶Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22¶Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
This above is about how Jesus being in a agreement about: " 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And :
19¶Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21¶Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
its not about 2 or 3 Christians huddled together, Jesus is with them in a bible study or Tuesday night prayer meeting.
Yes, it seems there are many different ways the "Abomination of Desolation" is defined. I believe the "abomination of desolation" is making the Spirit of Christ that works in the believer to both will and empower the believer to perform the pleasure of God making our load lighter "without effect". ( Philippians 2:13 )
When the faithless Jews gathered themselves together because of their jealousy of the surrounding pagan nations .They demanded that Samuel make the faith of Christ unseen work in men of desolate. They had no interest in the unseen things of God and declared the pagan foundation. The Bible calls them Fools . . no God in their hard hearts. "Out of sight out of mind ".or in other word .Who believes in things not seen with the human eye, fairy tales etc..
The Holy Spirit informed Samuel the prophet. It was not him they were rejecting making his authority desolate asking or king. But the unseen King of kings and Lord of lord.
1 Samuel 8: 6-7 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
They refused to walk by faith the unseen eternal, again making the unseen faith that works in mankind desolate by insisting they walk by sight.
When the first century reformation came it restored the government back to the time period of Judges as prophet apostles men and woman preaching the good ness .
The building that housed the abomination of desolation (kings in Israel) a temple made with human hand was declared desolate .Therefore making that abomination of desolation itself as a whole made desolate. The king and the temple
Mathew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Catholiscim fills that place. Not with kings but what they call Patron saints and the Bible names workers with familiar spirits. The foundation of necromancy. Communication with familiar spirits of the dead.
They have today over 3500 available with idols images needed to but a face on the legion. Rachel hid her teraphim from her father . King Saul when God stopped speaking to Him sought after Samuel who was dead.
King Josiah under the influence of faith as it is written the the bible. Which is called the book of the law . It did make the abomination that made the power of scripture usurping the authority of our Father in heaven not seen
2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.
The abomination of desolation is simply making the word of God without effect .Giving the unseen faith of Christ to the things seen .
The cause of the fall. Did God say you shall surely die????? You shall surely not die look at me and live. And the unseen Glory of God was made desolate. And mankind could see with their own eyes they were naked.
When the faithless Jews gathered themselves together because of their jealousy of the surrounding pagan nations .They demanded that Samuel make the faith of Christ unseen work in men of desolate. They had no interest in the unseen things of God and declared the pagan foundation. The Bible calls them Fools . . no God in their hard hearts. "Out of sight out of mind ".or in other word .Who believes in things not seen with the human eye, fairy tales etc..
The Holy Spirit informed Samuel the prophet. It was not him they were rejecting making his authority desolate asking or king. But the unseen King of kings and Lord of lord.
1 Samuel 8: 6-7 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
They refused to walk by faith the unseen eternal, again making the unseen faith that works in mankind desolate by insisting they walk by sight.
When the first century reformation came it restored the government back to the time period of Judges as prophet apostles men and woman preaching the good ness .
The building that housed the abomination of desolation (kings in Israel) a temple made with human hand was declared desolate .Therefore making that abomination of desolation itself as a whole made desolate. The king and the temple
Mathew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Catholiscim fills that place. Not with kings but what they call Patron saints and the Bible names workers with familiar spirits. The foundation of necromancy. Communication with familiar spirits of the dead.
They have today over 3500 available with idols images needed to but a face on the legion. Rachel hid her teraphim from her father . King Saul when God stopped speaking to Him sought after Samuel who was dead.
King Josiah under the influence of faith as it is written the the bible. Which is called the book of the law . It did make the abomination that made the power of scripture usurping the authority of our Father in heaven not seen
2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.
The abomination of desolation is simply making the word of God without effect .Giving the unseen faith of Christ to the things seen .
The cause of the fall. Did God say you shall surely die????? You shall surely not die look at me and live. And the unseen Glory of God was made desolate. And mankind could see with their own eyes they were naked.
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L
and on to another thread cause Jesus did not say only when reprimanding another am I with you
you can't make this stuff up, but I am wondering what is going on with the op
seeker friendly? NAR? I don't know too many sects that tell you that Jesus words do not apply and both the book of Acts and James are also not to be bothered with if you believe Jesus is your Savior and you are a Christian
the op never answers when you show him the error of his interpretation but rather just starts another thread
kinda strange if you ask me, yet he wants to teach the rest of us and keep telling us we 'doin it wrong'
you can't make this stuff up, but I am wondering what is going on with the op
seeker friendly? NAR? I don't know too many sects that tell you that Jesus words do not apply and both the book of Acts and James are also not to be bothered with if you believe Jesus is your Savior and you are a Christian
the op never answers when you show him the error of his interpretation but rather just starts another thread
kinda strange if you ask me, yet he wants to teach the rest of us and keep telling us we 'doin it wrong'
A person world need a good chisel for that.
Its speak of adding or subtracting from it as it is written and not, not reading it. Some subtract James and Acts into a source of wondering with no conclusion of faith . other add like the book of Mormon or the Koran . Both violate the same warning .
We can only serve one teaching master as it is written in the law and prophets .The perfect law of God. (sola scriptura)
Its speak of adding or subtracting from it as it is written and not, not reading it. Some subtract James and Acts into a source of wondering with no conclusion of faith . other add like the book of Mormon or the Koran . Both violate the same warning .
We can only serve one teaching master as it is written in the law and prophets .The perfect law of God. (sola scriptura)