"Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together" - Heb. 10:25

[MyrtleTrees]

Last night in bed, I thought about all the scriptures that give good examples of how believers in New Testament times, persisted in preaching the gospel and assembling together, in spite of persecution. The authorities would often forbid the gospel from being preached. These preachers could have assumed they should "muzzle their mouths" (figuratively speaking) in order to preserve their safety. But guess what? They didn't do that. They went ahead and kept on preaching to gospel, regardless of the consequences. Even out in the open, where large crowds could hear them!
The preachers could have reasoned that they should preach only "under a bushel" (figuratively speaking), in order to keep them safe in their preaching duties. But guess what? They didn't do that. It's true they didn't have church buildings like we have in modern times, to preach in. But they preached usually in people's homes, we can see by evidences of that throughout the New Testament. But I'm sure they would have preached in whatever facilty was available to them.
As for their congregations, they were forbidden to "forsake the assembling of themselves." So they weren't "off the hook" either, as to their responsibility to continue fellowshipping together in spite of what the consequences might be.
Now in modern times, it's true we have more ways of having Christian fellowship with others, than they had back then. For example, the internet, and phones. But I see the danger of falling for the temptation to choose only the "safe" methods, and to avoid the less safe method of meeting in churches. Rather than putting determining God's will in the matter above the desire to keep safe. I don't think all need to meet in church buildings, as there's also the possibility of having house churches. But I think God uses both kinds. And that it is important to do it in the way God has originally led them to do it. One should not do differently just because they have fear of possible consequences. If they give into that fear, they are letting their fear guide them instead of God.
It's tempting, I'm sure - for many churches this year of 2020, to choose to hold church services online in place of doing it in a physical gathering like church, where Christians are actually together. Though these online meetings are good, no doubt - still, it isn't right for congregations to avoid meeting together in person - it doesn't look right to me. Think of how being present with people is more effective in the preaching of the gospel! As compared to some silent methods. And think of how audible preaching has better spiritual benefit often through doing it right in the presence of a present audience. And think of how being with the Lord, will be far more excellent than communicating with Him from just here on earth - distant from where He is!
Probably there are some pastors who want to continue on preaching at church as before - but their problem is that no Christians are willing to attend their churches any more. So in their case, it's the congregation's fault then, that they aren't congregating.
Also think of how all Christians are told by the Bible to be "as salt of the earth." They can do this in daily life, by just doing whatever God wants them to do in life and not altering that out of fears of persecution. They can fellowship with "one, two, or three" people at a time, in their homes, at least, I'd think.
Eph 5:19

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
KJV
Col 3:16

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
KJV
Acts 5:28-29

28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
KJV
Acts 5:41-6:1

41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Acts 6

6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
KJV
Deitreich Bonhoffer is a good example of a Christian pastor in Germany, during World War II - who stood up for what was right, and was willing to suffer persecution if need be. Most other Christians in Germany were not that way. They were lukewarm Christians who attended formal - not spiritually alive churches.

 

[notuptome]

Interesting how many will freely gather for everything except church. Use reason and care and go to church. It can be done safely.

God knows the heart.

I would rather contract covid in the church than in the workplace or the dance hall.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Corban]

Last night in bed, I thought about all the scriptures that give good examples of how believers in New Testament times, persisted in preaching the gospel and assembling together, in spite of persecution. ... .

I think that preaching the gospel is one thing, and you are right. There is no reason to stop this, whether with the safety that Billy Graham enjoyed, or to a gruesome death like Jim Elliot at the hand of the Aucas. Gathering together physically is for another reason - the building up of the Church. In Ephesians Chapter 4 we see the Lord giving gifts to the Church for it edification. 1st Corinthians 14 regulates the use of these gifts. 1st Corinthians 14:26 leaves no doubt as to what the Lord ordained. "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

Strong tells us that the meaning of the compound word that we render "when ye come together" is from <G4862> (sun) and <G2064> (erchomai). It means "to convene, depart in company with, associate with, cohabit (conjugally), accompany, assemble (with), come (together), come (company, go) with, resort." The context is emphatic. The prohibition of missing physical meetings is sin. Hebrews 10:24-26 says;

24 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

The next verses give the main reason - persecution, as you have alluded to. These days tens of thousands of Christians are persecuted by Gentile governments. But a new persecution has arisen - a plague. A now the governments of the so-called "free world" have jumped on it to overthrow National Constitutions and to forbid "gatherings". Maybe it is time for not-so-free Americans to learn what the Chinese saints have done for decades. To slink around authorities and spies to a small home meeting where there is no singing or clapping, but where the gifted ones can still reach a person with their real voice - for all but one of the gifts are "speaking gifts".

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Last night in bed, I thought about all the scriptures that give good examples of how believers in New Testament times, persisted in preaching the gospel and assembling together, in spite of persecution. The authorities would often forbid the gospel from being preached. These preachers could have assumed they should "muzzle their mouths" (figuratively speaking) in order to preserve their safety. But guess what? They didn't do that. They went ahead and kept on preaching to gospel, regardless of the consequences. Even out in the open, where large crowds could hear them!
The preachers could have reasoned that they should preach only "under a bushel" (figuratively speaking), in order to keep them safe in their preaching duties. But guess what? They didn't do that. It's true they didn't have church buildings like we have in modern times, to preach in. But they preached usually in people's homes, we can see by evidences of that throughout the New Testament. But I'm sure they would have preached in whatever facilty was available to them.
As for their congregations, they were forbidden to "forsake the assembling of themselves." So they weren't "off the hook" either, as to their responsibility to continue fellowshipping together in spite of what the consequences might be.
Now in modern times, it's true we have more ways of having Christian fellowship with others, than they had back then. For example, the internet, and phones. But I see the danger of falling for the temptation to choose only the "safe" methods, and to avoid the less safe method of meeting in churches. Rather than putting determining God's will in the matter above the desire to keep safe. I don't think all need to meet in church buildings, as there's also the possibility of having house churches. But I think God uses both kinds. And that it is important to do it in the way God has originally led them to do it. One should not do differently just because they have fear of possible consequences. If they give into that fear, they are letting their fear guide them instead of God.
It's tempting, I'm sure - for many churches this year of 2020, to choose to hold church services online in place of doing it in a physical gathering like church, where Christians are actually together. Though these online meetings are good, no doubt - still, it isn't right for congregations to avoid meeting together in person - it doesn't look right to me. Think of how being present with people is more effective in the preaching of the gospel! As compared to some silent methods. And think of how audible preaching has better spiritual benefit often through doing it right in the presence of a present audience. And think of how being with the Lord, will be far more excellent than communicating with Him from just here on earth - distant from where He is!
Probably there are some pastors who want to continue on preaching at church as before - but their problem is that no Christians are willing to attend their churches any more. So in their case, it's the congregation's fault then, that they aren't congregating.
Also think of how all Christians are told by the Bible to be "as salt of the earth." They can do this in daily life, by just doing whatever God wants them to do in life and not altering that out of fears of persecution. They can fellowship with "one, two, or three" people at a time, in their homes, at least, I'd think.
Eph 5:19

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
KJV
Col 3:16

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
KJV
Acts 5:28-29

28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
KJV
Acts 5:41-6:1

41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Acts 6

6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
KJV
Deitreich Bonhoffer is a good example of a Christian pastor in Germany, during World War II - who stood up for what was right, and was willing to suffer persecution if need be. Most other Christians in Germany were not that way. They were lukewarm Christians who attended formal - not spiritually alive churches.

Good post, and, also, it is against the constitution of the United States, to restrict church gatherings.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

Good post, and, also, it is against the constitution of the United States, to restrict church gatherings.

Yes, and Pastor John MacArthur in Youtube that i've listened to lately, has also mentioned that it is against the constitution of the USA, to restrict church gatherings. How fortunate we are to have that in our constitution!

 

[MyrtleTrees]

I think that preaching the gospel is one thing, and you are right. There is no reason to stop this, whether with the safety that Billy Graham enjoyed, or to a gruesome death like Jim Elliot at the hand of the Aucas. Gathering together physically is for another reason - the building up of the Church. In Ephesians Chapter 4 we see the Lord giving gifts to the Church for it edification. 1st Corinthians 14 regulates the use of these gifts. 1st Corinthians 14:26 leaves no doubt as to what the Lord ordained. "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

Strong tells us that the meaning of the compound word that we render "when ye come together" is from <G4862> (sun) and <G2064> (erchomai). It means "to convene, depart in company with, associate with, cohabit (conjugally), accompany, assemble (with), come (together), come (company, go) with, resort." The context is emphatic. The prohibition of missing physical meetings is sin. Hebrews 10:24-26 says;

24 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

The next verses give the main reason - persecution, as you have alluded to. These days tens of thousands of Christians are persecuted by Gentile governments. But a new persecution has arisen - a plague. A now the governments of the so-called "free world" have jumped on it to overthrow National Constitutions and to forbid "gatherings". Maybe it is time for not-so-free Americans to learn what the Chinese saints have done for decades. To slink around authorities and spies to a small home meeting where there is no singing or clapping, but where the gifted ones can still reach a person with their real voice - for all but one of the gifts are "speaking gifts".

You explained it well!

 

[EmethAlethia]

Last night in bed, I thought about all the scriptures that give good examples of how believers in New Testament times, persisted in preaching the gospel and assembling together, in spite of persecution. The authorities would often forbid the gospel from being preached. These preachers could have assumed they should "muzzle their mouths" (figuratively speaking) in order to preserve their safety. But guess what? They didn't do that. They went ahead and kept on preaching to gospel, regardless of the consequences. Even out in the open, where large crowds could hear them!
The preachers could have reasoned that they should preach only "under a bushel" (figuratively speaking), in order to keep them safe in their preaching duties. But guess what? They didn't do that. It's true they didn't have church buildings like we have in modern times, to preach in. But they preached usually in people's homes, we can see by evidences of that throughout the New Testament. But I'm sure they would have preached in whatever facilty was available to them.
As for their congregations, they were forbidden to "forsake the assembling of themselves." So they weren't "off the hook" either, as to their responsibility to continue fellowshipping together in spite of what the consequences might be.
Now in modern times, it's true we have more ways of having Christian fellowship with others, than they had back then. For example, the internet, and phones. But I see the danger of falling for the temptation to choose only the "safe" methods, and to avoid the less safe method of meeting in churches. Rather than putting determining God's will in the matter above the desire to keep safe. I don't think all need to meet in church buildings, as there's also the possibility of having house churches. But I think God uses both kinds. And that it is important to do it in the way God has originally led them to do it. One should not do differently just because they have fear of possible consequences. If they give into that fear, they are letting their fear guide them instead of God.
It's tempting, I'm sure - for many churches this year of 2020, to choose to hold church services online in place of doing it in a physical gathering like church, where Christians are actually together. Though these online meetings are good, no doubt - still, it isn't right for congregations to avoid meeting together in person - it doesn't look right to me. Think of how being present with people is more effective in the preaching of the gospel! As compared to some silent methods. And think of how audible preaching has better spiritual benefit often through doing it right in the presence of a present audience. And think of how being with the Lord, will be far more excellent than communicating with Him from just here on earth - distant from where He is!
Probably there are some pastors who want to continue on preaching at church as before - but their problem is that no Christians are willing to attend their churches any more. So in their case, it's the congregation's fault then, that they aren't congregating.
Also think of how all Christians are told by the Bible to be "as salt of the earth." They can do this in daily life, by just doing whatever God wants them to do in life and not altering that out of fears of persecution. They can fellowship with "one, two, or three" people at a time, in their homes, at least, I'd think.
Eph 5:19

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
KJV
Col 3:16

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
KJV
Acts 5:28-29

28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
KJV
Acts 5:41-6:1

41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Acts 6

6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
KJV
Deitreich Bonhoffer is a good example of a Christian pastor in Germany, during World War II - who stood up for what was right, and was willing to suffer persecution if need be. Most other Christians in Germany were not that way. They were lukewarm Christians who attended formal - not spiritually alive churches.

As you say, the question is not the consequences for obeying and gathering together without the worlds restrictions. The question is who is willing to pay the price for obeying God? Answer ... few there are that be saved. If you are in Mesa AZ I will meet with anyone who wants to meet to obey God and seek truth and worship together. The world be damned... Yes, it pretty much will be. that's the point. Submission is obeying regardless of the personal cost to you. Even in spite of your own desires. When you agree with your authority 100% no opportunity for submission exists. It's only when your will is different that submission is possible. Do you submit to God even when the world says no?

 

[throughfaith]

Last night in bed, I thought about all the scriptures that give good examples of how believers in New Testament times, persisted in preaching the gospel and assembling together, in spite of persecution. The authorities would often forbid the gospel from being preached. These preachers could have assumed they should "muzzle their mouths" (figuratively speaking) in order to preserve their safety. But guess what? They didn't do that. They went ahead and kept on preaching to gospel, regardless of the consequences. Even out in the open, where large crowds could hear them!
The preachers could have reasoned that they should preach only "under a bushel" (figuratively speaking), in order to keep them safe in their preaching duties. But guess what? They didn't do that. It's true they didn't have church buildings like we have in modern times, to preach in. But they preached usually in people's homes, we can see by evidences of that throughout the New Testament. But I'm sure they would have preached in whatever facilty was available to them.
As for their congregations, they were forbidden to "forsake the assembling of themselves." So they weren't "off the hook" either, as to their responsibility to continue fellowshipping together in spite of what the consequences might be.
Now in modern times, it's true we have more ways of having Christian fellowship with others, than they had back then. For example, the internet, and phones. But I see the danger of falling for the temptation to choose only the "safe" methods, and to avoid the less safe method of meeting in churches. Rather than putting determining God's will in the matter above the desire to keep safe. I don't think all need to meet in church buildings, as there's also the possibility of having house churches. But I think God uses both kinds. And that it is important to do it in the way God has originally led them to do it. One should not do differently just because they have fear of possible consequences. If they give into that fear, they are letting their fear guide them instead of God.
It's tempting, I'm sure - for many churches this year of 2020, to choose to hold church services online in place of doing it in a physical gathering like church, where Christians are actually together. Though these online meetings are good, no doubt - still, it isn't right for congregations to avoid meeting together in person - it doesn't look right to me. Think of how being present with people is more effective in the preaching of the gospel! As compared to some silent methods. And think of how audible preaching has better spiritual benefit often through doing it right in the presence of a present audience. And think of how being with the Lord, will be far more excellent than communicating with Him from just here on earth - distant from where He is!
Probably there are some pastors who want to continue on preaching at church as before - but their problem is that no Christians are willing to attend their churches any more. So in their case, it's the congregation's fault then, that they aren't congregating.
Also think of how all Christians are told by the Bible to be "as salt of the earth." They can do this in daily life, by just doing whatever God wants them to do in life and not altering that out of fears of persecution. They can fellowship with "one, two, or three" people at a time, in their homes, at least, I'd think.
Eph 5:19

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
KJV
Col 3:16

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
KJV
Acts 5:28-29

28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
KJV
Acts 5:41-6:1

41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Acts 6

6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
KJV
Deitreich Bonhoffer is a good example of a Christian pastor in Germany, during World War II - who stood up for what was right, and was willing to suffer persecution if need be. Most other Christians in Germany were not that way. They were lukewarm Christians who attended formal - not spiritually alive churches.

I think also we need to be mindful of the abuses of using this verse also . The verse is often used to guilt trip the congregation to keep coming and keep tithing . The cults use this verse to keep people in line also .

 

[MyrtleTrees]

I think also we need to be mindful of the abuses of using this verse also . The verse is often used to guilt trip the congregation to keep coming and keep tithing . The cults use this verse to keep people in line also .

I suppose that's true! Yes, it is wrong to use that verse to make people feel obligated to give tithes to their church! And not all are able to afford to give as much as others, anyhow. And the Bible says providing for one's own needs and the needs of one's own family is a top priority, which is a sin to negelect.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

As you say, the question is not the consequences for obeying and gathering together without the worlds restrictions. The question is who is willing to pay the price for obeying God? Answer ... few there are that be saved. If you are in Mesa AZ I will meet with anyone who wants to meet to obey God and seek truth and worship together. The world be damned... Yes, it pretty much will be. that's the point. Submission is obeying regardless of the personal cost to you. Even in spite of your own desires. When you agree with your authority 100% no opportunity for submission exists. It's only when your will is different that submission is possible. Do you submit to God even when the world says no?

You're correct! What you said is well said, and true! Yes, as you say - one must be fully surrendered to God, or else one will act more upon his own will and will be more gullible to following wrong advice that comes from other people! And yes, to be willing to suffer to please God rather than man - even if it may mean the consequences are persecution - is what determines if a professing Christian is fully surrendered to God or not.

 

[Darvid]

As you know this letter was written to hebrew believers before ad 70, who were comming under persecution by fellow Jews and some were departing from following christ and going back to the sacrifical temple sacrifices for sins which was a no goer in gods sight.only in jesus could forgiveness of sins be given,so hebrew christions were forsaking the christion faith and going back to jewidsym,this is what that passsge means. I believe.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

As you know this letter was written to hebrew believers before ad 70, who were comming under persecution by fellow Jews and some were departing from following christ and going back to the sacrifical temple sacrifices for sins which was a no goer in gods sight.only in jesus could forgiveness of sins be given,so hebrew christions were forsaking the christion faith and going back to jewidsym,this is what that passsge means. I believe.

As you know this letter was written to hebrew believers before ad 70, who were comming under persecution by fellow Jews and some were departing from following christ and going back to the sacrifical temple sacrifices for sins which was a no goer in gods sight.only in jesus could forgiveness of sins be given,so hebrew christions were forsaking the christion faith and going back to jewidsym,this is what that passsge means. I believe.

I hadn't thought of the fact, that it might have referred especially to the Jews - as to their common tendency to revert back to Judaism. Thanks for your insight! But even so, I'm sure the command to "not forsake the assembling of yourselves" - is important for all Christians, likewise - to obey and see as important as obeying.

I've observed how there was that problem of reverting to Judaism, in the book of Galatians, too. I also think study of the Pharisees, in Jesus' time, sheds some helpful light in demonstrating how attempts to serve God, without full sincerity - produced a dead religion. A religion full of hypocrisy. There are many in modern times who are similarly affected by hypocritical serving of God. They overlook the most important matters of the gospel and of obedience to God, and attempt to cover it up with good works. As you say, believing in the necessity of Jesus' sacrifice for sins on the cross, and living according to it, is important. Without it, Christians become hypocritical, as they are living basically according to just the human way of viewing obedience to God. And lack God's insight on it, and also lack God's power in their lives.

Matt 5:20

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
KJV

Matt 23:23-24

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
KJV

 

[throughfaith]

As you know this letter was written to hebrew believers before ad 70, who were comming under persecution by fellow Jews and some were departing from following christ and going back to the sacrifical temple sacrifices for sins which was a no goer in gods sight.only in jesus could forgiveness of sins be given,so hebrew christions were forsaking the christion faith and going back to jewidsym,this is what that passsge means. I believe.

This is a good example of not rightly dividing the scriptures. Where a verse is not recognised in its context and is forced to apply in general to the Church . I see this happening with the four Gospels, Acts , James, ect

 

[throughfaith]

Most believers will unfortunately use this verse and use it for the church today . its used to guilt trip believers . Because most Christians read their bible ' legalistically' ,so its easy for verses like this to be abused and be used out of context . Whole sermons are often preached on ' twisted scriptures ' sadly .

 

[garee]

The assembling of ourselves together was in respect to some Jews who side stepped their own families for fear of persecution. They were not following the true fast the gospel, sharing one substance, clothing the naked (no Christ) as well as they should literally and not just spiritually. And that they should not hide from thine own Jewish flesh?

Note. . . .Green "gospel metaphors"

Isaiah 58: 6-7 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

John about to be beheaded wonders having doubt. . sent men to find out if Jesus was the Christ. Jesus informed them he was brining the true fast which again indicates not to forsake the gathering of family members and not to offended because of Him as "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me".

Matthew 11: 2-6 King James Version (KJV) And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

 

[lenna]

Most believers will unfortunately use this verse and use it for the church today . its used to guilt trip believers . Because most Christians read their bible ' legalistically' ,so its easy for verses like this to be abused and be used out of context . Whole sermons are often preached on ' twisted scriptures ' sadly .

LOL!

most Christians read their Bibles legalistically? don't you mean not all Christians agree with the way you disassemble the Bible?

if everyone handled the Bible as you appear to do, it wouldn't be long until we would toss that big ole book in favor of opinions

you have absolutely no proof of 'most' in the way you employ it here. according to you, the gospels are legalistic if anyone cares to apply them, including anything Jesus said; James is not for Christians at all and Acts is almost a work of fiction that Christians should skip over

This is a good example of not rightly dividing the scriptures. Where a verse is not recognised in its context and is forced to apply in general to the Church . I see this happening with the four Gospels, Acts , James, ect

case in point

I dunno. is there such a thing as the 50% believer? (not really asking)

 

[throughfaith]

LOL!

most Christians read their Bibles legalistically? don't you mean not all Christians agree with the way you disassemble the Bible?

if everyone handled the Bible as you appear to do, it wouldn't be long until we would toss that big ole book in favor of opinions

you have absolutely no proof of 'most' in the way you employ it here. according to you, the gospels are legalistic if anyone cares to apply them, including anything Jesus said; James is not for Christians at all and Acts is almost a work of fiction that Christians should skip over



case in point

I dunno. is there such a thing as the 50% believer? (not really asking)

That's a complete misrepresentation. All !!!! of the bible is FOR us , but not ALL of the bible is TO us . This is the problem when people here this idea they react by thinking " oh I see he only believes parts of the bible " . There is a major problem with the way most Christians read their bibles . For some every !! word is for them regardless of application or context. Usually spiritualising the text. They are Israel , they are jeremiah, Jonas, Peter , David ect . For some, its all devotional. others its close your eyes and stab your finger in an open bible and thats their verse for the day. If you don't spot any changes there is something wrong . You will still be under the law , sacrificing animals and building an Ark in the back yard. Some place so much focus on Jesus words without noticing most of what he says is before the cross .

 

[lenna]

That's a complete misrepresentation. All !!!! of the bible is FOR us , but not ALL of the bible is TO us . This is the problem when people here this idea they react by thinking " oh I see he only believes parts of the bible " . There is a major problem with the way most Christians read their bibles . For some every !! word is for them regardless of application or context. Usually spiritualising the text. They are Israel , they are jeremiah, Jonas, Peter , David ect . For some, its all devotional. others its close your eyes and stab your finger in an open bible and thats their verse for the day. If you don't spot any changes there is something wrong . You will still be under the law , sacrificing animals and building an Ark in the back yard. Some place so much focus on Jesus words without noticing most of what he says is before the cross .

well I can agree with that

BUT you go much further. what you are describing, is not most Christians.

so, you have gone from 'Because most Christians read their bible ' legalistically', to 'There is a major problem with the way most Christians read their bibles, Usually spiritualising the text. changed your mind then?

flip flop

anyway, you really have nothing upon which to base you broad sweeping statements which seem to always read MOST, as in YOU are the authority because MOST do this or that

that argument would not hold up anywhere, but is a fine example of gross exaggeration

you are speaking for millions which is obviously ridiculous. one thing to discuss ways a person may interpret scripture, but quite another to try and paint yourself as THE authority cause most people are 'doin it wrong'

 

[Blade]

I was going to post but seems lenna beat me to it

Anyway right now whats happening to the Church in the US is nothing compared to say China/Iran where they risk their lifes to just come together.

Amen nothing else needs to be said "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

 

[peldom10]

Most church attendance is a fraction of previous when the church was sized and built. So much distancing is available now because of greatly reduced attendance.

More importantly...because of new, new age religion interpretations of scriptures......we must have concerns of the church attended.