No 'But '

[Deuteronomy]

Not sure what you mean by dependent.

LOL , that was what I was unsure about from you as well (when you said earlier, "our new nature" does depend upon abiding and walking in the Spirit ").

I think my overall point is that sanctification is living out and leaning into what we already possess in Christ.

I agree (and very well said BTW ). We are to "work out" (express in action) the new nature (and thereby, the new desires) that God gave us/worked into us (so to speak) which (as you just pointed out), "we already possess in Christ".

Teachers like John MacArthur for instance teach a one nature view which is slowly being transformed (Reformed and Calvinism) and it is impossible to understand to understand the letters of John from that point of view. The correct view is the new nature and the flesh.

Interesting I don't know anything about this particular teaching (from MacArthur or from Calvinism), but I will take a look at both and let you know if I discover anything interesting.

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[Deuteronomy]

My OP is not just aimed at Calvinists . Lordship/ works /' but' salvation is pervasive in many denominations and within the 'pale of Christianity 'and Christianity in general .Its not just within the cults . The devil cannot separate a believer from God ,but he can certainly deceive the vast majority of Christians into ineffectiveness , despair and despondency. He can get them so focused on themselves and their fears that the Gospel is barely shared .

Hello throughfaith, I agree that the devil is very good at what he does (sadly), but the point I was trying to make is that you typically blame Calvinism for teaching things that everyone else in the church believes/teaches, things that are, in fact, taught plainly in the Bible (which is why they are taught by all within orthodox Christianity, not just by Calvinists).

I noticed you haven't mentioned once the need to share the good news as the reason we are still here after conversion. ?

I was hoping that the Scripture verses that I posited in my post would take care of that. Since they didn't, please take note below of the last four Scripture references below, beginning with Matthew 28:19 and ending with Romans 10:17.

I believe that the Lord had a purpose in saving us, in making us into wholly new creatures in Christ .. 2 Corinthians 5:17, and then leaving us here as aliens and strangers in this hostile world .. 1 Peter 2:11; e.g. Matthew 5:13-16, 28:19; Mark 16:15; Acts 1:8, Romans 10:13-15, 17, and it was certainly for something greater than continuing to dishonor/displease Him by living in sin/by living in the same way that the world does (the same kind of sinful lifestyle that we used to live in ourselves as unbelievers).

The "something greater" that I was alluding to (but apparently not doing so clearly enough .. sorry about that) is the combination of,

1. sharing our faith through witnessing/evangelism/apologetics and,​

2. glorifying God​

I believe that those are two of the principle reasons that God leaves believers in this world (rather than taking us home immediately).

~Deut

 

[Deuteronomy]

The translation your using for 1 john 3 might be a better conversation for another thread . And the meaning intended in the better translations that do not add ' practicing ', which makes a mess of 1 john 3 .

Hello throughfaith, the translation in this case is the ESV, but I believe the reason for their translation teams' use of "practicing" in the passage from 1 John 3 is not only sound, but best, based upon both context and tense.

You are correct however, this discussion (if we end up having one) should be done in a different thread.

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[throughfaith]

Romans 1 is referencing some of God's regenerate children in saying that they are "without excuse". The natural man, until he has been quickened cannot "hold the truth in unrighteousness". He does not have the ability to discern the truth.

That's not what the bible says.

 

[throughfaith]

Hello throughfaith, I agree that the devil is very good at what he does (sadly), but the point I was trying to make is that you typically blame Calvinism for teaching things that everyone else in the church believes/teaches, things that are, in fact, taught plainly in the Bible (which is why they are taught by all within orthodox Christianity, not just by Calvinists).


I was hoping that the Scripture verses that I posited in my post would take care of that. Since they didn't, please take note below of the last four Scripture references below, beginning with Matthew 28:19 and ending with Romans 10:17.



The "something greater" that I was alluding to (but apparently not doing so clearly enough .. sorry about that) is the combination of,

1. sharing our faith through witnessing/evangelism/apologetics and,​

2. glorifying God​

I believe that those are two of the principle reasons that God leaves believers in this world (rather than taking us home immediately).

~Deut

I think a lot of denominations teach false doctrine and Calvinism has permeated most traditions and denominations . When someone says " the majority " ( argumentum ad populum im not phased because the bible warns this . I would rather Christians were non denominational . I would not attend a denominational church .

 

[throughfaith]

as Paul said, the law killed for without the law I would not know sin, but the law confirmed all under sin so I may be justified by faith
once again, how can I repent if I do not think I ever commited a sin

can you please answer that question

Yes the law does that . The Holy Spirit reproves the sin of unbelief in Jesus .

 

[throughfaith]

Sorry that I wasn't more clear using scripture. Perhaps someone else who drafted an article that fully explains may help you. I hope so because it is an important part of our walk I think. Thanks for the work John.
Are works a part of our salvation? Let’s talk about Ephesians 2:8-9
Misunderstanding grace as it relates to salvation has compromised the theology of millions.

Works are what is done after salvation not for it .

 

[throughfaith]

Sorry that I wasn't more clear using scripture. Perhaps someone else who drafted an article that fully explains may help you. I hope so because it is an important part of our walk I think. Thanks for the work John.
Are works a part of our salvation? Let’s talk about Ephesians 2:8-9
Misunderstanding grace as it relates to salvation has compromised the theology of millions.

This article is the same false message that is being peddled across christianity.

Sorry that I wasn't more clear using scripture. Perhaps someone else who drafted an article that fully explains may help you. I hope so because it is an important part of our walk I think. Thanks for the work John.
Are works a part of our salvation? Let’s talk about Ephesians 2:8-9
Misunderstanding grace as it relates to salvation has compromised the theology of millions.

This Article is preaching a false Gospel . no mistake.

 

[throughfaith]

Sorry that I wasn't more clear using scripture. Perhaps someone else who drafted an article that fully explains may help you. I hope so because it is an important part of our walk I think. Thanks for the work John.
Are works a part of our salvation? Let’s talk about Ephesians 2:8-9
Misunderstanding grace as it relates to salvation has compromised the theology of millions.

This is just one of the statements in that article.

////so just what defines faith? Our response. Our obedience. Our works. I don’t believe works that are empowered by God’s grace are simply an “expected outcome” for one who comes to Jesus. (Have you ever met someone who “got saved” and still struggles with obedience?) I believe they are an integral, strategic part of the salvation process. God’s grace and our response are both key.

And, yes, I’ll agree to a point that you are probably thinking about right now. Consecration takes time. However, I believe a repeated failure at consecration can threaten our justification. We can’t take God’s calls to obedience and works lightly. Faith is not enough.///// False .

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I do not agree, feeling sorrow would be the result of repentance, not repentance itself

It serves no useful purpose to micro-dissect a definition of a single word.

 

[throughfaith]

as Paul said, the law killed for without the law I would not know sin, but the law confirmed all under sin so I may be justified by faith
once again, how can I repent if I do not think I ever commited a sin

can you please answer that question

When you say " how can I repent 'do you mean " how can I change my mind about something ? . Knowledge of the law can change someone's mind about sin .

 

[throughfaith]

How did the natural man have his sins removed before he was made alive. Do you have a scripture for that? because it's not Eph 2:1

which verse says sins are ' removed 'AFTER someone Believes?

 

[throughfaith]

If this is true, no one is saved, because no one can be saved until they repent and come to God in faith, you are not made alive in sin

Are we not made alive as a sinner ? its seems as if ' made alive ' implies that we go from ' dead ' to ' alive ' but not in the Calvinist sense . But simply as sinners we believe the Gospel and then we are made alive through regeneration.

 

[throughfaith]

Hello throughfaith, I agree that the devil is very good at what he does (sadly), but the point I was trying to make is that you typically blame Calvinism for teaching things that everyone else in the church believes/teaches, things that are, in fact, taught plainly in the Bible (which is why they are taught by all within orthodox Christianity, not just by Calvinists).


I was hoping that the Scripture verses that I posited in my post would take care of that. Since they didn't, please take note below of the last four Scripture references below, beginning with Matthew 28:19 and ending with Romans 10:17.



The "something greater" that I was alluding to (but apparently not doing so clearly enough .. sorry about that) is the combination of,

1. sharing our faith through witnessing/evangelism/apologetics and,​

2. glorifying God​

I believe that those are two of the principle reasons that God leaves believers in this world (rather than taking us home immediately).

~Deut

///Hello throughfaith, I agree that the devil is very good at what he does (sadly), but the point I was trying to make is that you typically blame Calvinism for teaching things that everyone else in the church believes/teaches, things that are, in fact, taught plainly in the Bible (which is why they are taught by all within orthodox Christianity, not just by Calvinists).//// The 5 points of Calvinism are obviously not taught across all of Christianity . Especially " regeneration precedes Faith '

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes the law does that . The Holy Spirit reproves the sin of unbelief in Jesus .

Law can’t do it without the HS’s help

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is just one of the statements in that article.

////so just what defines faith? Our response. Our obedience. Our works. I don’t believe works that are empowered by God’s grace are simply an “expected outcome” for one who comes to Jesus. (Have you ever met someone who “got saved” and still struggles with obedience?) I believe they are an integral, strategic part of the salvation process. God’s grace and our response are both key.

And, yes, I’ll agree to a point that you are probably thinking about right now. Consecration takes time. However, I believe a repeated failure at consecration can threaten our justification. We can’t take God’s calls to obedience and works lightly. Faith is not enough.///// False .

Wow, modern day phariseeism at its finest.

we must maintain our salvation by works. This is why A lot of people boast Yet can not hear their own pride in how they “help God” in their salvation

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It serves no useful purpose to micro-dissect a definition of a single word.

It serves a major disservice to misinterpret a single word by adding to its meaning. As it causes a misapplication of the word. which can lead to false theology

sorrow would be a result of repentance (The word means to change ones thinking, to do an “about face or to the rear march” as we call it in the Military). I do not need to feel sorrow to make this change, I just need to agree with God, and TRUST (have faith) in him

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When you say " how can I repent 'do you mean " how can I change my mind about something ? . Knowledge of the law can change someone's mind about sin .

If that is all it did, then there is still something missing, legalists change their Minds about sin, But have they truly repented?

how can you come to God admitting you’re a sinner without being convicted of sin? Why would you? The pharisee did not, and they led many jews down with them, because they refused to acknowledge their sin

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are we not made alive as a sinner ? its seems as if ' made alive ' implies that we go from ' dead ' to ' alive ' but not in the Calvinist sense . But simply as sinners we believe the Gospel and then we are made alive through regeneration.

We go from being dead to God (seperated) to being alive in him (barrier of separation removed)

 

[throughfaith]

Law can’t do it without the HS’s help

Again that's an opinion without a verse . I'm not saying that is the case dogmatically but which verse please ?