-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
sure like this
“Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
Luke 3:38 KJV
your right it’s progressive but what I would humbly say you should consider The death and resurrection , what that progression looks like where it begins and ends
The beginning
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
Genesis 1:27 KJV
what happens in Christ ? we’re made into his image A second time spiritually First this time and the flesh to come later .
because we’re cursed under death because of sin . We need a revival of our spirit so he comes to be with us again by His spirit Like he was with adam
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
Romans 8:16
“And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.”
Genesis 3:8 KJV
Christ’s promise is through the Holy Ghost Gods presence with us again like adam Adam lost it for man in the beginning because of sin like many still do
first we accept that reconciled relationship spiritually
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
Jesus is restoring the beginning
adam lost this
“So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:24 KJV
that wasn’t Gods will he warned adam not to do it and it would result in death , adam believed a lie and cursed man. And lost mans dominion over to sin and death . Jesus see offers a restoration of what was lost
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
Revelation 2:7 KJV
the beginning was Gods plan for us , the middle is about sinners God is working to save and the end is a restoration of Gods kingdom heaven and earth that’s why we have a spirit and a body everything has two one of the natural and one of the physical
either way this is the goal brother I agree it’s progressive but God is the same always the beginning is when Hod was with man and man had life and in the end it will be restored
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And
I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
Revelation 21:1-5
the way for us to get there is to have a resurrection of our spirit through relieving the gospel , and believe the promise Therin of a new incorruptible body like the lords resurrected one then a soul is saved
“Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
Luke 3:38 KJV
your right it’s progressive but what I would humbly say you should consider The death and resurrection , what that progression looks like where it begins and ends
The beginning
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
Genesis 1:27 KJV
what happens in Christ ? we’re made into his image A second time spiritually First this time and the flesh to come later .
because we’re cursed under death because of sin . We need a revival of our spirit so he comes to be with us again by His spirit Like he was with adam
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
Romans 8:16
“And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.”
Genesis 3:8 KJV
Christ’s promise is through the Holy Ghost Gods presence with us again like adam Adam lost it for man in the beginning because of sin like many still do
first we accept that reconciled relationship spiritually
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
Jesus is restoring the beginning
adam lost this
“So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:24 KJV
that wasn’t Gods will he warned adam not to do it and it would result in death , adam believed a lie and cursed man. And lost mans dominion over to sin and death . Jesus see offers a restoration of what was lost
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
Revelation 2:7 KJV
the beginning was Gods plan for us , the middle is about sinners God is working to save and the end is a restoration of Gods kingdom heaven and earth that’s why we have a spirit and a body everything has two one of the natural and one of the physical
either way this is the goal brother I agree it’s progressive but God is the same always the beginning is when Hod was with man and man had life and in the end it will be restored
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And
I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
Revelation 21:1-5
the way for us to get there is to have a resurrection of our spirit through relieving the gospel , and believe the promise Therin of a new incorruptible body like the lords resurrected one then a soul is saved
Hmmmm. Good question.
Leviticus 26:11 And I will set My tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
Psalms 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Leviticus 26:11 And I will set My tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
Psalms 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
In more physical terms: Man has a body, heart, mind. These three are housed in one shell, but they do not all three always feel the same way about the same thing(s).
The body can feel hot, cold, wet, dry, windy, calm, pain, pleasure through the nerve endings. The mind can record these feelings as their experience is sent to the brain through nerve channels. The mind is not expressly the brain however. The mind is housed in the brain, but the mind can have an entirely different feeling towards the stimuli described above. The heart can also have differing feelings.
The mind can know someone is not good for a person, yet the heart can overrule that knowledge because it has a different feeling about the person. The body can agree or disagree with either.
It is a complex system of items humans are composed of. Yet, to look at us, we appear to be one being. The thoughts of our hearts or mind can not easily be seen. Nor can the feelings of the body, except through what the stimuli causes it to react to.
Given the complexity of we, the imperfect beings, I suggest it is quite a struggle to even begin to understand the Triune God.
Yet, He is. And we were created in His image.
Christians are called such because they have made the choice to become disciples of Jesus the Christ. Due to that, I have a hard time believing any who profess to be a Christian would even consider denying the Divinity of Jesus the Christ. Any who believe Jesus is simply a created being, a man only, and not God the Son, can in no way justify calling themselves a Christian in my opinion.
The body can feel hot, cold, wet, dry, windy, calm, pain, pleasure through the nerve endings. The mind can record these feelings as their experience is sent to the brain through nerve channels. The mind is not expressly the brain however. The mind is housed in the brain, but the mind can have an entirely different feeling towards the stimuli described above. The heart can also have differing feelings.
The mind can know someone is not good for a person, yet the heart can overrule that knowledge because it has a different feeling about the person. The body can agree or disagree with either.
It is a complex system of items humans are composed of. Yet, to look at us, we appear to be one being. The thoughts of our hearts or mind can not easily be seen. Nor can the feelings of the body, except through what the stimuli causes it to react to.
Given the complexity of we, the imperfect beings, I suggest it is quite a struggle to even begin to understand the Triune God.
Yet, He is. And we were created in His image.
Christians are called such because they have made the choice to become disciples of Jesus the Christ. Due to that, I have a hard time believing any who profess to be a Christian would even consider denying the Divinity of Jesus the Christ. Any who believe Jesus is simply a created being, a man only, and not God the Son, can in no way justify calling themselves a Christian in my opinion.
-
1
- Show all
You're making a lot of astute observations my friend. Just one note I'd like to add regarding your first sentence, the mind is biblically seated in the heart. In fact, science started catching up to it... There's a whole nervous system on its own that surrounds the heart.
https://www.learning-mind.com/the-human-heart-mind/
And, our spirit struggles with the flesh, too.
So sometimes our mind/heart/soul desires one thing, or the body craves something, but they get overruled by the newborn spirit.
https://www.learning-mind.com/the-human-heart-mind/
And, our spirit struggles with the flesh, too.
So sometimes our mind/heart/soul desires one thing, or the body craves something, but they get overruled by the newborn spirit.
-
1
- Show all
Genesis 1:21 states:
And God created great whales, and every living creature [chay nephesh] that moveth ...
So in Gen 1:21, God created chay nephesh.
Now, Gen 2:7 when God breathed into Adam's nostrils, Adam became a "living soul" ... chay nephesh.
God formed man's body from the dust of the ground ... formed the body from something God had already created back in Gen 1. And God breathed into man's nostrils and man became chay nephesh ... again chay nephesh is something God had already created back in Gen 1.
Yet we know man was created in the image of God as shown in Gen 1:27:
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
What is this image of God?
This is the only part which was created specifically and uniquely in man. And it was this part which separated mankind from every other living creature (chay nephesh). This image of God elevated mankind above all the other living creatures (chay nephesh).
However, when Adam and Eve sinned, mankind was radically affected. Adam's descendants were begotten in the likeness and image of Adam in his fallen state ... no longer image of God as shown in Gen 1:27.
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth
And God created great whales, and every living creature [chay nephesh] that moveth ...
So in Gen 1:21, God created chay nephesh.
Now, Gen 2:7 when God breathed into Adam's nostrils, Adam became a "living soul" ... chay nephesh.
God formed man's body from the dust of the ground ... formed the body from something God had already created back in Gen 1. And God breathed into man's nostrils and man became chay nephesh ... again chay nephesh is something God had already created back in Gen 1.
Yet we know man was created in the image of God as shown in Gen 1:27:
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
What is this image of God?
This is the only part which was created specifically and uniquely in man. And it was this part which separated mankind from every other living creature (chay nephesh). This image of God elevated mankind above all the other living creatures (chay nephesh).
However, when Adam and Eve sinned, mankind was radically affected. Adam's descendants were begotten in the likeness and image of Adam in his fallen state ... no longer image of God as shown in Gen 1:27.
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth
Hmmmm. Good question.
Leviticus 26:11 And I will set My tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
Psalms 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Leviticus 26:11 And I will set My tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
Psalms 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
first he was spirit in heaven John 1:1-3 John 4:24 then he became flesh that’s a living soul .
“For David speaketh concerning him,” I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. “
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Acts 2:2
when a living spirit enters a body It becomes a living soul. The body dies because of sin but spirit Which became a living soul in the body , Survives based on our faith in Gods promise of a new body like his.
Christ and the gospel is the true image of our God and reveals to us the image of original man before sin
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
Man was right in the first God made us right for life and not death . We were first within God and he made a mans body , when man the spirit from God entered into the body that made a living soul.
adam lost it all for us and Christ is the redeemer Of us . the second time the body is like the good things of Gods spirit Not formed Of dust but spoken of Promise by God in heaven who is the creator so his words are certain
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
Man was right in the first God made us right for life and not death . We were first within God and he made a mans body , when man the spirit from God entered into the body that made a living soul.
adam lost it all for us and Christ is the redeemer Of us . the second time the body is like the good things of Gods spirit Not formed Of dust but spoken of Promise by God in heaven who is the creator so his words are certain
See where it says “ The god of this world ? Satan stole Mans dominion away from him through the deception and opened mans eyes to sin , so that Satan could have access to mans dominion on earth through corruption and temptation of the flesh which is now one with the life giving spirit within which was of God.
this brought sin and death to
Man satans goal was to kill us and have dominion. His influence in us through that conflict now in our nature good and evil is easily And rapidly seen in scripture
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
Genesis 6:3 KJV
he’s saying my spirit isn’t going to remain in the corrupt flesh it is now a
Conflict with the spirit in man
“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
Galatians 5:17
it made us “ sinners” to have that knowledge. And sin brings death.
see the conflict between the two ? The conflicting knowledge of good and evil changed mans nature. It wasn’t and isn’t meant for mankind that’s why it was forbidden God knew the result of this would be sin and death
Satan also knew , the lust in the flesh was placed there by satans word “ it will not kill you it will make you wise as gods “ he created a desire or list for the forbidden by making it appear valuable and good .
God had priorly created faith in them by telling them the truth . he created a lust in them for the forbidden fruit through their flesh. This is him wielding dominion through man and its result
“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
....The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.”
Genesis 6:5-7, 11-12 KJV
that conflict of spirit and flesh is why we need salvation and why Jesus has to
Come and be one of us and die and be raised up. To regain mans dominion being without sin , and having no requirement of death he is victorious our God
this brought sin and death to
Man satans goal was to kill us and have dominion. His influence in us through that conflict now in our nature good and evil is easily And rapidly seen in scripture
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
Genesis 6:3 KJV
he’s saying my spirit isn’t going to remain in the corrupt flesh it is now a
Conflict with the spirit in man
“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
Galatians 5:17
it made us “ sinners” to have that knowledge. And sin brings death.
see the conflict between the two ? The conflicting knowledge of good and evil changed mans nature. It wasn’t and isn’t meant for mankind that’s why it was forbidden God knew the result of this would be sin and death
Satan also knew , the lust in the flesh was placed there by satans word “ it will not kill you it will make you wise as gods “ he created a desire or list for the forbidden by making it appear valuable and good .
God had priorly created faith in them by telling them the truth . he created a lust in them for the forbidden fruit through their flesh. This is him wielding dominion through man and its result
“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
....The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.”
Genesis 6:5-7, 11-12 KJV
that conflict of spirit and flesh is why we need salvation and why Jesus has to
Come and be one of us and die and be raised up. To regain mans dominion being without sin , and having no requirement of death he is victorious our God
Genesis 1 mentions three things that were created by God:
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Then the rest of the chapter and through Gen 2:3, we see God arranging His creation out of whatever it was He created in Gen 1:1 ... until
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature [chay nephesh] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
So whatever chay nephesh is, it was not created at Gen 1:1.
and the third thing God created was ...
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
What is the image of God in which man was created???
We know the body was formed from the dust of the ground.
We know God breathed and man became chay nephesh ... a living soul. The soul gives life to the body. Animals and birds and sea life have chay nephesh (Gen 1:21, 24).
We know God created man (not animals, not other creatures) in His own image. This image of God is what made mankind unique from all other chay nephesh. What is the image of God???
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Then the rest of the chapter and through Gen 2:3, we see God arranging His creation out of whatever it was He created in Gen 1:1 ... until
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature [chay nephesh] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
So whatever chay nephesh is, it was not created at Gen 1:1.
and the third thing God created was ...
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
What is the image of God in which man was created???
We know the body was formed from the dust of the ground.
We know God breathed and man became chay nephesh ... a living soul. The soul gives life to the body. Animals and birds and sea life have chay nephesh (Gen 1:21, 24).
We know God created man (not animals, not other creatures) in His own image. This image of God is what made mankind unique from all other chay nephesh. What is the image of God???
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Again clearly Jesus Christ is the image of God which Mankind was made in.
what do Wales have anything to do with the image of God ?
The body is made of the earth the created the spirit came out from God and the two together are a living soul. It’s simple you are a soul , tou
Have a body and spirit
what Made Mankind a living soul is Gods spirit entering the man. Adams spirit came from God , he corrupted the flesh which is one with the spirit that’s the entire reason we need a new body . The new one isn’t made from creation it comes from Gods spirit his words .
Man is of God spiritually and of the earth physically mans a living soul
what do Wales have anything to do with the image of God ?
The body is made of the earth the created the spirit came out from God and the two together are a living soul. It’s simple you are a soul , tou
Have a body and spirit
what Made Mankind a living soul is Gods spirit entering the man. Adams spirit came from God , he corrupted the flesh which is one with the spirit that’s the entire reason we need a new body . The new one isn’t made from creation it comes from Gods spirit his words .
Man is of God spiritually and of the earth physically mans a living soul
S
For now, until I see a reason in the scriptures to think of it differently I will continue to use biblical language and use the word soul and spirit interchangeably as it relates to the unseen part of man and that which goes to be with Christ after the body dies. (for the believer of course) Here are some of the many scripture examples that form my biblical view.
Starting with the only one New Testament verse that can be used to suggest a three part view, and then the verse that states that a soul and spirit can be separated by the Word of God, these two verses do not by themselves give me any reason to modify my understanding of all the many verses that use soul and spirit interchangeably. At this time, (I am always open to change my mind based on sound interpretation of scriptures, (not human reasonings) ) and since the many responses in this thread so far, I am still thinking that the intention of 1 Thess 5:23 is to express... "your spirit and soul, as that immaterial part of you" (what you love, what you think, decisions you make about serving God) and your body being that physical part of you, how you stay sexually pure, etc. That you stay blameless and holy as you wait for the coming of the Lord. The same with Heb 4:12, that God sees the inside of our hearts and knows what we are really like and what our motives are. So there may be an intention here of saying that the Word of God can expose whether we are lying to ourselves. The poetic Joints and Marrow gives us reason to take the Spirit and Soul as poetic as well. As "if there is a way to separate soul and spirit it is the Word of God that can do that" I am still studying this from the Greek and I appear to be on the right track.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (ESV): ‘Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ’.:
Heb 4:12 (NIV): ‘For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart’. Soul and spirit are clearly different words and they can be ‘divided’ according to this verse.
The Greek construction of 1 Thess 5:23 (transliterated): hagiazw hymeis holoteleskai kai terew hymeis ho pneuma kai ho psyche kai ho swma terew holokleros
The literal translation is: ‘and may [the God of peace] sanctify you completely your (the) spirit and the soul and the body be preserved (completely) whole’.
Matt 10:28 (NIV): Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell’.
Matt 22:37 (NIV): ‘Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Mark 8:36 (NLT): ‘And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?’
Mark 12:30 (NIV): ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
1 Cor 7:34 (NIV), ‘An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband’.
Rom 1:9 (NIV), ‘God, whom I serve in my spirit in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you’.
Genesis 35:18 (ESV): ‘And as her [Rachel’s] soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin’.
Matt 10:28 (ESV): ‘And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].
Rev 6:9 (NIV): ‘When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne’.
James 2:26 (ESV): ‘For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead’.
Eccl 12:7 (ESV): ‘and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it’.
Luke 23:36 (ESV): ‘Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last’.
Luke 8:54-55 (ESV): ‘But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” And her spirit returned, and she got up at once. And he directed that something should be given to her to eat’.
Is this sending a contradictory message about the naming and function of the immaterial part of a human being? Some verses state the soul leaves the body at death while others take the view the spirit departs from the body. How do we resolve this difficulty?
the evidence points to the soul and spirit being evidence for the unseen part of human beings.
Starting with the only one New Testament verse that can be used to suggest a three part view, and then the verse that states that a soul and spirit can be separated by the Word of God, these two verses do not by themselves give me any reason to modify my understanding of all the many verses that use soul and spirit interchangeably. At this time, (I am always open to change my mind based on sound interpretation of scriptures, (not human reasonings) ) and since the many responses in this thread so far, I am still thinking that the intention of 1 Thess 5:23 is to express... "your spirit and soul, as that immaterial part of you" (what you love, what you think, decisions you make about serving God) and your body being that physical part of you, how you stay sexually pure, etc. That you stay blameless and holy as you wait for the coming of the Lord. The same with Heb 4:12, that God sees the inside of our hearts and knows what we are really like and what our motives are. So there may be an intention here of saying that the Word of God can expose whether we are lying to ourselves. The poetic Joints and Marrow gives us reason to take the Spirit and Soul as poetic as well. As "if there is a way to separate soul and spirit it is the Word of God that can do that" I am still studying this from the Greek and I appear to be on the right track.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (ESV): ‘Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ’.:
Heb 4:12 (NIV): ‘For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart’. Soul and spirit are clearly different words and they can be ‘divided’ according to this verse.
The Greek construction of 1 Thess 5:23 (transliterated): hagiazw hymeis holoteleskai kai terew hymeis ho pneuma kai ho psyche kai ho swma terew holokleros
The literal translation is: ‘and may [the God of peace] sanctify you completely your (the) spirit and the soul and the body be preserved (completely) whole’.
Matt 10:28 (NIV): Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell’.
Matt 22:37 (NIV): ‘Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Mark 8:36 (NLT): ‘And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?’
Mark 12:30 (NIV): ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
1 Cor 7:34 (NIV), ‘An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband’.
Rom 1:9 (NIV), ‘God, whom I serve in my spirit in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you’.
Genesis 35:18 (ESV): ‘And as her [Rachel’s] soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin’.
Matt 10:28 (ESV): ‘And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].
Rev 6:9 (NIV): ‘When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne’.
James 2:26 (ESV): ‘For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead’.
Eccl 12:7 (ESV): ‘and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it’.
Luke 23:36 (ESV): ‘Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last’.
Luke 8:54-55 (ESV): ‘But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” And her spirit returned, and she got up at once. And he directed that something should be given to her to eat’.
Is this sending a contradictory message about the naming and function of the immaterial part of a human being? Some verses state the soul leaves the body at death while others take the view the spirit departs from the body. How do we resolve this difficulty?
the evidence points to the soul and spirit being evidence for the unseen part of human beings.
-
1
- Show all
L
well you can address tantalon about his views; they are not mine.
I have already responded with regards to what I perceive as the soul and the spirit. did you miss that post? I addressed it to you...post 46
as far as scripture goes, we do not find any teaching with regards to the indwelling Holy Spirit in the OT, but the entirety of the new, indicates a different way to walk with God; a different way to obey God. This is our spirit responding to the Holy Spirit, so while you
choose to believe there is not scripture to indicate any difference between soul/spirit, it is my assertion that the opposite is actually true.
As far as Hebrews 4:12 goes, I didn't 'use' it for any explanation. I quoted the verse because it does affirm soul and spirit as two different things.
I think we need to be careful (by we I mean everyone) in how we interpret scripture. We all know that the doctrine of the Trinity is not explicit, but rather implicit and we can illustrate further from scripture certain things that are not fully explained as well.
Fine to state theologians say this or that, but I often question whether or not said theologians are cessationists or not as I find a difference in understanding from one to the other, but that is a bowl of cement we should not get into, but there it is nonetheless.
I have already responded with regards to what I perceive as the soul and the spirit. did you miss that post? I addressed it to you...post 46
as far as scripture goes, we do not find any teaching with regards to the indwelling Holy Spirit in the OT, but the entirety of the new, indicates a different way to walk with God; a different way to obey God. This is our spirit responding to the Holy Spirit, so while you
choose to believe there is not scripture to indicate any difference between soul/spirit, it is my assertion that the opposite is actually true.
As far as Hebrews 4:12 goes, I didn't 'use' it for any explanation. I quoted the verse because it does affirm soul and spirit as two different things.
I think we need to be careful (by we I mean everyone) in how we interpret scripture. We all know that the doctrine of the Trinity is not explicit, but rather implicit and we can illustrate further from scripture certain things that are not fully explained as well.
Fine to state theologians say this or that, but I often question whether or not said theologians are cessationists or not as I find a difference in understanding from one to the other, but that is a bowl of cement we should not get into, but there it is nonetheless.
-
1
- Show all
L
fine, but did mention him and I just happened to know about his view regarding soul power and in that respect he has my full agreement. I would not quote him for 'proof' of doctrine, but I already stated what I believe regarding 'proof' and that is the Bible itself.
well this is another kind of example altogether and one I find does nothing to support your op.
this is a narrative and not teaching as per the rest of the NT after Jesus resurrection and ascension. I disagree with your assessment that this is proof of no difference between soul and spirit. And then you mention mind.
I am sure you are fully aware that the 'heart' as represented in scripture, is not referring to an organ in the cavity of the left side of our chest. In Proverbs 4, we read:
23Keep your heart with all diligence,
For out of it spring the issues of life.
the heart, as referred to in the OT, is the soul. People were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit as believers are today. The Holy Spirit acted outside of the 'heart' and while God dealt with people by His Spirit, it was mainly through prophets who spoke on His behalf. They were not speaking from their souls, they believed they were speaking on behalf of God, by His Spirit and in fact, I find this to be true and not the same as what we can experience today.
absolutely. we are free to praise God any time, but there is a difference when we understand with a spiritual understanding, as per the Bible itself, and that is what I am posting about here in response to you.
well this is another kind of example altogether and one I find does nothing to support your op.
this is a narrative and not teaching as per the rest of the NT after Jesus resurrection and ascension. I disagree with your assessment that this is proof of no difference between soul and spirit. And then you mention mind.
I am sure you are fully aware that the 'heart' as represented in scripture, is not referring to an organ in the cavity of the left side of our chest. In Proverbs 4, we read:
23Keep your heart with all diligence,
For out of it spring the issues of life.
the heart, as referred to in the OT, is the soul. People were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit as believers are today. The Holy Spirit acted outside of the 'heart' and while God dealt with people by His Spirit, it was mainly through prophets who spoke on His behalf. They were not speaking from their souls, they believed they were speaking on behalf of God, by His Spirit and in fact, I find this to be true and not the same as what we can experience today.
absolutely. we are free to praise God any time, but there is a difference when we understand with a spiritual understanding, as per the Bible itself, and that is what I am posting about here in response to you.
L
L
well they say they are born again but you just tried to state I believe in monism
so there is that.................
I find people are having more and more of a problem differentiating between the voice of the Holy Spirit and 'the voice of another Jesus'
yeah, I said that. we are going downhill..the church is not the bastion of truth it was tried to be
just steam rolling along you are
so there is that.................
I find people are having more and more of a problem differentiating between the voice of the Holy Spirit and 'the voice of another Jesus'
yeah, I said that. we are going downhill..the church is not the bastion of truth it was tried to be
just steam rolling along you are
Didn't know that, but now when you say it, nod nod. I've definitely noticed the tendency. Nowadays when it comes to complex teachings, people try to solve that by occam-razor-ing and simplify the teaching to make it palatable to the logical understanding, which often flies right in the face of the Bible...
L
I had to look up occamrazoring LOL! or I guess Occam's razor
exactly though. God is above our ways and He is not like us even though He created us. we are fallen
8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.
9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55
instead of growing on what the Bible calls food, folks are choking on pablum and agreeing with things that are not in the Bible but they are let to believe by false teachers, that they are, or taught to reason rather than to understand that their minds do not operate in the sense of agreement with God apart from His Spirit
sorry, but being led astray is a fearful thing and hard to come back from
exactly though. God is above our ways and He is not like us even though He created us. we are fallen
8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.
9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55
instead of growing on what the Bible calls food, folks are choking on pablum and agreeing with things that are not in the Bible but they are let to believe by false teachers, that they are, or taught to reason rather than to understand that their minds do not operate in the sense of agreement with God apart from His Spirit
sorry, but being led astray is a fearful thing and hard to come back from
S
Yes, I read your perception, and my response was to your suggesting that others have explained to me already what the soul is, and of course you and others do not all agree as to your perception therefore stating that others have explained what the soul is as if I was supposed to have learned from such posts is not helpful because your perception and that of others is rarely the same, and none of these perceptions has the authority of scripture.
So me not including it was a bad thing? Even though we both know it is not a valid view as to scripture? How does
So me not including it was a bad thing? Even though we both know it is not a valid view as to scripture? How does