Are the words Spirit and Soul used interchangeably in scripture? Is man bipartite or tripartite?

[reneweddaybyday]

It's really kind of interesting how Genesis is laid out. In Gen 1:21, God created great whales, and every living creature. The words "living creature" are the Hebrew words chay nephesh.

So we have chay nephesh being created on Day 5.

Then, on Day 6, we have Adam created in the image of God, in the image of God created He him, male and female created He them (Gen 1:27).

Then we have a chapter break and Day 7 is at the beginning of chapter 2.

Then the generations of the heavens and earth (Gen 2:4) and in Gen 2:7, we see God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul. The words "living soul" (chay nephesh) are the same Hebrew words used in Gen 1:21 when God created every living creature (chay nephesh).

So we know God created chay nephesh in Gen 1:21 and in Gen 2:7 man became chay nephesh after God breathed into his nostrils. God did not create chay nephesh in Gen 2:7. God created chay nephesh in Gen 1:21. So what did God create in Gen 1:27 (So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them)?

I believe that, at the beginning, this is what Adam consisted of:

created in the image of God = spirit,
formed of the dust of the ground = body,
breathed the breath of life into him = soul

And I believe this all occurred at the same time as far as man is concerned. I don't believe God created the spirit of man and then that spirit just kind of existed without the soul and body. But the way Genesis is written we've got kind of an overview of creation in Gen 1 (and I believe Gen 2:1-3 really should be included in Gen 1) ... then Gen 2:4 starts out these are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. So it's kind of disjointed the way this was set out in written form.

And it's really kind of interesting that the same nephesh (soul) that enlivens the body of man is the same nephesh (soul) that enlivens great whales, and every living creature that moveth (Gen 1:21).


Soul enlivens the body ... the body without the soul is a lump of clay

Genesis 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died ) ...


The body and soul is to be subject to the spirit. When Adam sinned, it changed the whole make up of how God had made man. And God had a plan in place for this eventuality. And God's plan was implemented immediately after Adam and Eve sinned.

In Gen 1, we see man (specifically Adam/Eve) created in the image of God. In Gen 5:3, we have progeny of Adam begotten in his (Adam's) own likeness, after his image. So mankind is no longer in the image of God ... each generation is begotten in the likeness/image of the prior generation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That is not what is revealed in Scripture. The Holy Spirit Himself distinguishes the soul from the spirit twice in the Bible (and I have already quoted those verses).

If there was no difference, then that would not be embedded in Scripture. True worship is with the spirit and in the spirit, since the spirit understands the things of the Spirit (Jn 4:23).

because of translation and adding bridge terms like “and “ which makes it appear like there’s something there that’s actually not.

what I’m saying and again just my way of seeing it , if you want to know what a man is , and is made of you look at creation That’s an actual teaching about what man is and consists of .

I wouldn’t then see something obscure later and assume man is a soul at creation but has a soul later that doesn’t make any sense .

If a Man who is given life is a living soul that sort of is meant to be added into the recipe that way then later the entirety of scripture based on those two elements of man spirit and flesh .

“To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭

but that spirit that is saved is promised a new body

“It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the flesh is natural and dies the spirit can be saved and given that promise of a new body hence 1 soul is saved

 

[lenna]

I see no significant separation intended in saying spirit and soul. It is just an parallelism expression of that inner spiritual man whether you call it soul or spirit.

did they just teach you that?

I have often suspected that way too much is being taught on the difference between Spirit and Soul that cannot be proven from scripture as to where one stops and the other begins.

huh. the definition between the 2 is well substantiated in scripture and some have posted some of the indications that this is so

I do not believe a case for a bipartite human can be made .

while not a salvic issue, I don't think, it is not a good interpretation and I would think it reflects on understanding concepts in scripture beyond the issue itself

 

[lenna]

John 13:21 21When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

Do we think that Jesus soul was troubled in John 12:27 is saying something different than when it says in John 13:21 "he was troubled in spirit"? No, they are two ways of saying the same thing. How ridiculous would it be to teach that his mind, and emotions were troubled in John 12:27 and his spirit was troubled and not his mind and emotions in John 13:21

ummm

just no

I would think these 2 verses actually describe the difference, rather than encourage your view

frankly I am somewhat perturbed you even think that, but of course none of us are 100% right about everything (shrugs)

the rest of your verse 'arsenal' are not convincing either

 

[Ahwatukee]

That is incorrect. The spirit and the soul are closely linked, yet clearly distinct from each other. They are not interchangeable.

The soul constitutes the person himself (intellect, emotions, and will, the personality) and also includes the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature). Yet while the soul (the person) is very much alive, as long as he is unregenerate the spirit is dead. This is the "natural man". Hence the absolute necessity of the New Birth.

It is only after the gift of the Holy Spirit is given, that the man is born again, and at the same time the spirit is made alive (quickened). And the Holy Spirit dwells within the spirit. It is the spirit that understands spiritual things. The natural man does not understand the things of the Spirit, and they are foolishness to him.

Now here is where the soul and spirit are shown to be distinct: For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)

And here is where man is shown to be a tripartite being: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole [1] spirit and [2] soul and [3] body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23).

Totally agree with you and is what I have been telling them. The scriptures above clearly identify the soul and the spirit as being separate. But I guess that they have forgotten the rules of grammar, for 'spirit and soul,' i.e. in addition to, would constitute two separate entities.

The scriptures above, which are the very ones that I provided, should answer the question and end the issue.

 

[lenna]

That is incorrect. The spirit and the soul are closely linked, yet clearly distinct from each other. They are not interchangeable.

The soul constitutes the person himself (intellect, emotions, and will, the personality) and also includes the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature). Yet while the soul (the person) is very much alive, as long as he is unregenerate the spirit is dead. This is the "natural man". Hence the absolute necessity of the New Birth.

It is only after the gift of the Holy Spirit is given, that the man is born again, and at the same time the spirit is made alive (quickened). And the Holy Spirit dwells within the spirit. It is the spirit that understands spiritual things. The natural man does not understand the things of the Spirit, and they are foolishness to him.

Now here is where the soul and spirit are shown to be distinct: For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)

And here is where man is shown to be a tripartite being: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole [1] spirit and [2] soul and [3] body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23).

I don't hardly know what to say about this op

good post

 

[lenna]

Scriptures about the Holy Spirit do not normally apply to the theological discussion of the anthropology of the nature of man as it relates to his being bipartite soul and body (or spirit and body) where the two words are interchangeble and can be used to say the same thing (the spirit of the man) or tribpartate soul, spirit and body where soul and spirit are separate parts of man.

ok. one more. why not

theological discussion? anthropology of the nature of man etc? some big 5 syllable words going on there.

but of course no theologian in academic circles has made an argument for Trichotomy (tripartate) nature of man for the past 100 years. God help them then

smh. y'all need a better teacher IMO. Paul is banging his head against a cloud or maybe he is glad he does not have to deal with such foolishness.

 

[Deade]

And it's really kind of interesting that the same nephesh (soul) that enlivens the body of man is the same nephesh (soul) that enlivens great whales, and every living creature that moveth (Gen 1:21).

Amen, let's break it down:


In Genesis 2:7 the word soul = H5315

נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

This is the same word translated creature in Gen. 1:21 and thereafter. So, we can conclude the soul here is nothing more than the breath of life.

There is nothing immortal about man's makeup. We are dust and we will return to dust unless we take ahold of God's promise for immortality. We can call ourselves saved but we still need God to keep His promise of a resurrection to immortality.


Simply speaking a soul is an animal. We typically confuse soul with spirit

spirit = H7307

רוּחַ
rûach
roo'-akh

From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).



Wait one minute. The same Hebrew word for soul is defined as animal-creature elsewhere (see Gen. 1:21).

In Genesis 2:7 “and man became a living soul” - the word soul

soul = H5315

נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

Gen. 1:21: "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

creature = H5315 = nephesh

We have been led astray by saying the soul is anything more than our body and the breath of life.

It gets confusing because Jesus sometimes refers to the spirit as our souls. Jesus exhorted His hearers: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both the soul and the body in hell” (Matthew 10:28).

Matt. 10:28: And G2532 fear G5399 not G3361 (G575) them which kill G615 the G3588 body, G 4983 but G1161 are not G3361 able G1410 to kill G615 the G3588 soul: G5590 but G1161 rather G3123 fear G5399 him which is able G1410 to destroy G622 both G2532 soul G5590 and G2532 body G4983 in G1722 hell. G1067

soul = G5590

ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely.


body = G4983

σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body.

Jesus was comparing destroying the spirit (He called the soul) and body.



1 Thessalonians 5:23: And G1161 the G3588 very G846 God G2316 of peace G1515 sanctify G37 you G5209 wholly; G3651 and G2532 I pray God your G5216 whole G3648 spirit G4151 and G2532 soul G5590 and G2532 body G4983 be preserved G5083 blameless G274 unto G1722 the G3588 coming G3952 of our G2257 Lord G2962 Jesus G2424 Christ. G5547

spirit = G4151

pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

soul = G5590

psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

body = G4983

sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

So it is like saying spirit (immortal-Holy Spirit) other spirit (mortal-breath of life-animal) and body. This is interesting: Matt. 10:28 just compared soul-5590 (psuchē) to body-4983. While Thessalonians is speaking of an immortal spirit, which is seeded by the Holy Spirit. That is my take, anyway.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

did they just teach you that?



huh. the definition between the 2 is well substantiated in scripture and some have posted some of the indications that this is so

I do not believe a case for a bipartite human can be made .

while not a salvic issue, I don't think, it is not a good interpretation and I would think it reflects on understanding concepts in scripture beyond the issue itself

could you please make a comment with those scriptures and see if they explain the difference ? I honestly want to know

 

[Scribe]

The SOUL is simply that part that encompasses the emotions: tenderness pity, compassion etc. and, or, their counterparts or opposites. The SPIRIT encompasses the will, heart and intellect. To put simply, the right spirit is one that makes right DECISIONS, to please God. Honorable, or otherwise emotions, are the awareness that the body uses to show the need of actions, or it's state of being, in a given situation. An example can be shown in John 3: 16: "For God so loved", showing the EMOTIONS involved, and then goes on to say, "that he gave" the ACTIONS of the will or intellect. Another example that comes to mind is Hebrews 10: 38, ...but if any man draw back, (his choice spiritually) my SOUL shall have no pleasure (FEELINGS) in him.

I suppose that sounds good, but you just made my previous point of how those who think that the bible intends to separate the definition of soul and spirit do not agree as to what part the soul plays and what part the spirit plays.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What’s a soul ?

 

[Scribe]

Amen, let's break it down:


In Genesis 2:7 the word soul = H5315

נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

This is the same word translated creature in Gen. 1:21 and thereafter. So, we can conclude the soul here is nothing more than the breath of life.

There is nothing immortal about man's makeup. We are dust and we will return to dust unless we take ahold of God's promise for immortality. We can call ourselves saved but we still need God to keep His promise of a resurrection to immortality.


Simply speaking a soul is an animal. We typically confuse soul with spirit

spirit = H7307

רוּחַ
rûach
roo'-akh

From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).



Wait one minute. The same Hebrew word for soul is defined as animal-creature elsewhere (see Gen. 1:21).

In Genesis 2:7 “and man became a living soul” - the word soul

soul = H5315

נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

Gen. 1:21: "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

creature = H5315 = nephesh

We have been led astray by saying the soul is anything more than our body and the breath of life.

It gets confusing because Jesus sometimes refers to the spirit as our souls. Jesus exhorted His hearers: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both the soul and the body in hell” (Matthew 10:28).

Matt. 10:28: And G2532 fear G5399 not G3361 (G575) them which kill G615 the G3588 body, G 4983 but G1161 are not G3361 able G1410 to kill G615 the G3588 soul: G5590 but G1161 rather G3123 fear G5399 him which is able G1410 to destroy G622 both G2532 soul G5590 and G2532 body G4983 in G1722 hell. G1067

soul = G5590

ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely.


body = G4983

σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body.

Jesus was comparing destroying the spirit (He called the soul) and body.



1 Thessalonians 5:23: And G1161 the G3588 very G846 God G2316 of peace G1515 sanctify G37 you G5209 wholly; G3651 and G2532 I pray God your G5216 whole G3648 spirit G4151 and G2532 soul G5590 and G2532 body G4983 be preserved G5083 blameless G274 unto G1722 the G3588 coming G3952 of our G2257 Lord G2962 Jesus G2424 Christ. G5547

spirit = G4151

pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

soul = G5590

psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

body = G4983

sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

So it is like saying spirit (immortal-Holy Spirit) other spirit (mortal-breath of life-animal) and body. This is interesting: Matt. 10:28 just compared soul-5590 (psuchē) to body-4983. While Thessalonians is speaking of an immortal spirit, which is seeded by the Holy Spirit. That is my take, anyway.

I knew this would be a good thread.

 

[Scribe]

ummm

just no

I would think these 2 verses actually describe the difference, rather than encourage your view

frankly I am somewhat perturbed you even think that, but of course none of us are 100% right about everything (shrugs)

the rest of your verse 'arsenal' are not convincing either

There are many more scriptures on the words spirit and soul to list. If most are used interchangeably this fact cannot be ignored.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Disclaimer: this is my personal understanding.
Soul is used in the Bible in some contexts to mean something like "the invisible nature of man beyond his tangible body" or so, in which case it's used interchangeably with spirit or ghost. Man has two natures, corporeal one and the invisible one. I think that confusion and interchangeable use ensue because both soul and spirit share the characteristic of being intangible and invisible.

And in some contexts soul is used to mean something that I loosely define here as "personal sentience, individual conscienceless, intimate space where the thoughts of the heart arise" in which case it is different from the spirit. The spirit means, again loosely defined, "the unique identity of the individual that defines who they are" or an "essence" of being (just like the Spirit of God is love, or His essence). But soul is the ground for sin and what sins.
Pull all the references in the Bible where soul and spirit are mentioned: you may notice that only souls are redeemed, not spirits.
So with that notion, I believe man has body, soul and spirit, and that the latter two aren't the same.
Made in God's image, understand the triune Godhead by the things that are made.

 

[lenna]

could you please make a comment with those scriptures and see if they explain the difference ? I honestly want to know

well, if you will note, I referred to scripture posted by others. I didn't post any scripture myself as I thought it already well covered

k?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I knew this would be a good thread.

I knew this would be a good thread.

where’s the scripture I see dictionary and explanation no scripture at all really . The conclusion there is way way off .

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7

Amen, let's break it down:


In Genesis 2:7 the word soul = H5315

נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

This is the same word translated creature in Gen. 1:21 and thereafter. So, we can conclude the soul here is nothing more than the breath of life.

There is nothing immortal about man's makeup. We are dust and we will return to dust unless we take ahold of God's promise for immortality. We can call ourselves saved but we still need God to keep His promise of a resurrection to immortality.


Simply speaking a soul is an animal. We typically confuse soul with spirit

spirit = H7307
נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (


k?

ahh ok thanks

 

[lenna]

There are many more scriptures on the words spirit and soul to list. If most are used interchangeably this fact cannot be ignored.

oh I am not ignoring anything or I would not be posting on your thread

I will assume or guess that you used your best examples regarding what you believe are the same (only different)?

interesting that you now state 'if most' are used interchangeably

I don't they are used interchangeably at all

 

[lenna]

ahh ok thanks

sure

 

[Pilgrimshope]

where’s the scripture I see dictionary and explanation no scripture at all really . The conclusion there is way way off .

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7


ahh ok thanks

 

[lenna]

I knew this would be a good thread.

certainly controversial if that is what you had in mind...kind of like your will you take the vaccine thread