Are the words Spirit and Soul used interchangeably in scripture? Is man bipartite or tripartite?

[Scribe]

I lean toward a bipartite (dichotomy) anthropological view of man myself. I think that it is obvious that scripture often uses the word spirit and soul interchangeably and when they are both mentioned it is nothing more than parallelism and repetition simply a way of saying the whole of man.

I see no significant separation intended in saying spirit and soul. It is just an parallelism expression of that inner spiritual man whether you call it soul or spirit.

For example when he says you should love God with all your heart, soul, mind, body and strength does he intend to teach that we are a 5 part human anthropology? What would that be called anyway? Pentapartite? Pentchotomy? Obviously it is expressive of all that make up our being from our perspectives and includes our whole person.

I have often suspected that way too much is being taught on the difference between Spirit and Soul that cannot be proven from scripture as to where one stops and the other begins. It just seems like speculative conjecture and not what the text intended. When two teachers present different views as to the definition of soul and spirit neither can authoritatively prove which one is correct as both are guesses. Would someone attempt to define the difference between heart, soul, and mind he would contradict himself as he had already taught that the mind was the soul. Is the heart the spirit? Who determines who is correct. Which category does strength fit into? Is it body? Is is determination? Is the emotions, the heart or the mind, or the soul? I think the author would say "that was not the point, it was a way of expressing all that we are should be devoted to serving and Loving God."

For this reason I have rejected most books and teachings I have heard on these differences that make up soul and spirit. If there is an intended difference in select texts it would be similar to the one I mentioned about Loving God with all your heart, and all your soul, and all your mind, and etc... these individual parts are expressions of whatever we call them, love God with everything that makes up your conscious being.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I see no significant separation intended in saying spirit and soul. It is just an parallelism expression of that inner spiritual man whether you call it soul or spirit.

That is incorrect. The spirit and the soul are closely linked, yet clearly distinct from each other. They are not interchangeable.

The soul constitutes the person himself (intellect, emotions, and will, the personality) and also includes the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature). Yet while the soul (the person) is very much alive, as long as he is unregenerate the spirit is dead. This is the "natural man". Hence the absolute necessity of the New Birth.

It is only after the gift of the Holy Spirit is given, that the man is born again, and at the same time the spirit is made alive (quickened). And the Holy Spirit dwells within the spirit. It is the spirit that understands spiritual things. The natural man does not understand the things of the Spirit, and they are foolishness to him.

Now here is where the soul and spirit are shown to be distinct: For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)

And here is where man is shown to be a tripartite being: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole [1] spirit and [2] soul and [3] body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23).

 

[Scribe]

That is incorrect. The spirit and the soul are closely linked, yet clearly distinct from each other. They are not interchangeable.

The soul constitutes the person himself (intellect, emotions, and will, the personality) and also includes the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature). Yet while the soul (the person) is very much alive, as long as he is unregenerate the spirit is dead. This is the "natural man". Hence the absolute necessity of the New Birth.

It is only after the gift of the Holy Spirit is given, that the man is born again, and at the same time the spirit is made alive (quickened). And the Holy Spirit dwells within the spirit. It is the spirit that understands spiritual things. The natural man does not understand the things of the Spirit, and they are foolishness to him.

Now here is where the soul and spirit are shown to be distinct: For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)

And here is where man is shown to be a tripartite being: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole [1] spirit and [2] soul and [3] body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23).

That was a very good representation of what is popularly taught by many who have read these teachings from books like Watchman Nee or others that have made it very popular in churches today.

However no theologian in academic circles has made an argument for Trichotomy (tripartate) nature of man for the past 100 years.
The reason is that it cannot be supported heremeneutically. Your two verses do not teach all that you said before posting them.

As to 1 Thess 5:23 Wayne Grudem who was part of the committe that translated the ESV from the original languages (and a very well respected world renown theologian and author of books on Systematic Theology) says that the Greek supports dichotomy and is simply a repetition of saying the whole man) Now Grudem can probably explain why the Greek in 1 Thess 5:23 supports dicotomy (two parts) but I will have to find where it is explained and post it later.

The same with Heb 4:12 it is simply parallelism (a literary form often used in scriptures) and is stressing the point of the deep things in a man.

Reviewing all the scriptures where soul and spirit are used in the bible one is thorougly convinced that they are used interchangeably and then one comes to 1 Thess 5:23 it should not change ones understanding of all the scriptures that have gone before.

If you do take a dogmatic stand that man is three parts because of 1 Thess 5:23, and Heb 4:12 then the next step is to attempt to define the difference and scriptures do not support your explanations. To define the soul as the will and intellect will not be supported with other scriptures and this should make you take a step back from the dogmatic stand that this verse proves that man is three parts. If you cannot prove the difference between the soul and spirit with other scriptures you are left out on a limb without support on a dogmatic stand. Not wise.

Let's look at a number of verses that do prove that you CANNOT find a difference between soul and spirit that supports the explanation you gave.



John 12:27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

John 13:21 21When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

Do we think that Jesus soul was troubled in John 12:27 is saying something different than when it says in John 13:21 "he was troubled in spirit"? No, they are two ways of saying the same thing. How ridiculous would it be to teach that his mind, and emotions were troubled in John 12:27 and his spirit was troubled and not his mind and emotions in John 13:21

Luke 1:46-47... Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, 47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Since Mary's soul is magnifying the Lord and her spirit is rejoicing in her saviour it is obvious that they mean the same thing and not two different parts of her abilities to Magnify and Rejoice. Certainly the same "parts" of her are involved in both.f

Heb 12:23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Here are the spirits of men made perfect in heaven
Rev 6:9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And here are the SOULS of man in heaven, obviously whether spirits of men in heaven or souls of men in heaven this is speaking of the same thing and using the words interchangeably.

Gen Rachel soul departing(was that not her spirit?)
Gen 35: 18And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
Elijah raising the widows son
1 kings 17:21And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
Was that not his spirit that came back into him? And yet we see it called soul.

Jesus told the foolish man storing up in barns for his ease,
This night your soul is required of you. His soul or his spirit? Of course either word can be used because they are the same.

Psalms 31 into your hands I commit my spirit

The spirit returns to god

Fear him who is able to Destroy soul and body in hell, (no need to mention spirit since soul is the same thing)

Deliver to satan for destruction of the flesh so his spirit may be saved

2 Corinthians 7:1 - Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (do we not need to be holy in the soul? Spirit is soul)
1 Corinthians 6:20 - For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. (do I glorify Him in my soul? Of course, Spirit is soul)

“A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.” Not soul, spirit. The spirit is capable of all what those who try to explain how the soul is different, Knowing, emotions, being faithful, etc.

Pauls spirit was provoked
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
Was it his soul, emotions? Or was it his spirit, emotions? They are the same.

A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones. A crushed soul (emotions?) or a crushed spirit? In this case it is obvious that the spirit has emotions.

The spirit can also know and those things described by trichotomists as what the soul does the scriptures say the spirit does,

Mk 2 8 knowing in spirit
8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

My soul thirsts for you my flesh longs

Psalms 51:10 - Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Lift up my soul
Bless the lord my soul
And on, and on, and on...
All scriptures show them to be the same interchangeable. 2 verses 1 Thess 5:23, and Heb 4:12 do not support all the speculation and conjecture that have been built upon them to create a doctrine of three parts to a man and no scriptures support the explanations given as to the differences being soul = intellect, emotions, and will, the personality and spirit = that which relates to God. That does not even make sense, nor does most of the teachings attempting to explain the difference between soul and spirit by the tripartate view.

I never bought in to the tripartate view because of all the scriptures that obviously use the words interchangeably but I admit that 1 Thess 5:23, and Heb 4:12 made me consider it until I learned about paralellism in Hebrew and Greek literature. We see alot of that in Proverbs but it is common throughout the bible.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I lean toward a bipartite (dichotomy) anthropological view of man myself. I think that it is obvious that scripture often uses the word spirit and soul interchangeably and when they are both mentioned it is nothing more than parallelism and repetition simply a way of saying the whole of man.

I see no significant separation intended in saying spirit and soul. It is just an parallelism expression of that inner spiritual man whether you call it soul or spirit.

For example when he says you should love God with all your heart, soul, mind, body and strength does he intend to teach that we are a 5 part human anthropology? What would that be called anyway? Pentapartite? Pentchotomy? Obviously it is expressive of all that make up our being from our perspectives and includes our whole person.

I have often suspected that way too much is being taught on the difference between Spirit and Soul that cannot be proven from scripture as to where one stops and the other begins. It just seems like speculative conjecture and not what the text intended. When two teachers present different views as to the definition of soul and spirit neither can authoritatively prove which one is correct as both are guesses. Would someone attempt to define the difference between heart, soul, and mind he would contradict himself as he had already taught that the mind was the soul. Is the heart the spirit? Who determines who is correct. Which category does strength fit into? Is it body? Is is determination? Is the emotions, the heart or the mind, or the soul? I think the author would say "that was not the point, it was a way of expressing all that we are should be devoted to serving and Loving God."

For this reason I have rejected most books and teachings I have heard on these differences that make up soul and spirit. If there is an intended difference in select texts it would be similar to the one I mentioned about Loving God with all your heart, and all your soul, and all your mind, and etc... these individual parts are expressions of whatever we call them, love God with everything that makes up your conscious being.

i could not agree more I’d say I’m confident after reading this , a soul is the entirety of a man (whether male or female)

Thoughts , desires , temptations , strongholds , lusts and cravings love and emotions all those things are spirit inner things

The body is like a vehicle, the spiritual part of us is the driver. If we’re right in our minds and hearts our thoughts and emotions our actions will be right Much much more naturally .

The flesh is not alive can’t move apart from the will of the spiritual but is a vehicle for temptation and faith. But the spiritual was alive in God before it was given, already and brought life into the flesh.

When the flesh dies and returns to the dust as it was , the spirit returns to God alive as it was.

in the Bible there are two of everything not only concerning man but there is a heavenly realm and a physical realm , two worlds colliding but one yet to come made of promises of God as far back as Isaiah.

man is two parts one corresponds to the creation the dust of the earth which is cursed , the other part corresponds to the spirit which came from God and gave man life making a “whole man“ or a living soul which can be saved into a promised resurrection of the body.

those things correspond to Abraham’s promises and pauls allegory of Ishmael and Isaac . Ishmael promise is that his seed would have 12 princes and inherit a good land and his children would be as the dust of the earth

but with Isaac his promise is an eternal covenant Isaacs promise the children correspond to the countless stars of the heavens . Heaven and earth Israel’s covenant was about this earth and thier land , ours is about eternity in the new world to come.

Agreed 100 % The complete Man is a living soul. One complete “ fella”if you will , or “ feller “ if you have a southern accent 😅 is a livin’ soul

God bless and thanks for the post and good insight




Made of a body and a living spirit and we have such hope in this second aspect of everything it is mankind’s redemption our second chance to be a part of Gods kingdom.


because we know when we part this flesh after our hopefully long and weary days our spirit will see the lord our God at last.

at creation we were made of the dust and given life through the spirit and when we have fought that good fight and finished our race

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12

and knowing who God is through Christ , that is an aweful encouraging hope our bodies will die but our “living soul “ is carried on a promise of a body by his powerful word as our spirit returns to him .

It’s so important for us to accept the gospel before that day comes.

 

[Scribe]

I suppose the reason it matters is that teaching and writing books explaining the difference between soul and spirit can lead to an understanding that the soul can be sinful but the spirit not, which is a form of gnosticsim. It can also be a way of building with wood, hay and stubble, (ministry works that will not be rewarded) focusing on a imaginative teaching that cannot be supported by scripture and wastes time for both the teacher and the student trying to comprehend something that the scriptures never intended to teach.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I see no significant separation intended in saying spirit and soul. It is just an parallelism expression of that inner spiritual man whether you call it soul or spirit.

Have you read Numbers 11? ... where God took of the Spirit which was upon Moses and put it upon 70 elders of the people who would then help bear the burden of the people so that Moses did not bear that burden alone?

Numbers 11:

16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.

17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

...

24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.

25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.


Please note ... this was prior to Day of Pentecost and Holy Spirit was upon holy men and women of God. Holy Spirit could be removed (as in the case of Saul). In Psalm 51, David prayed that God would not remove the Holy Spirit from him ...

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.


In 2 Kings 2, Elijah asked Elisha "What shall I do for you?" Elisha asked to receive a double portion of the Spirit that was upon Elijah:

2 Kings 2:

9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12 And Elisha saw it ...

...

15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

The sons of the prophets recognized the Spirit that had been upon Elijah was now resting upon Elisha.


I believe there is a difference between soul and spirit ... I also believe that what we have now in our day and time (ever since Day of Pentecost) is somewhat different than prior to Day of Pentecost. God doesn't take of Holy Spirit within me and put it upon others. In our day and time, we have Holy Spirit within ... when we are born again we are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13). It is an indwelling, not a settling upon as prior to Pentecost.


It is best we go to God and ask Him to reveal to us these truths. He will honor our request in His own time.

 

[Scribe]

Have you read Numbers 11? ... where God took of the Spirit which was upon Moses and put it upon 70 elders of the people who would then help bear the burden of the people so that Moses did not bear that burden alone?

Numbers 11:

16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.

17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

...

24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.

25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.


Please note ... this was prior to Day of Pentecost and Holy Spirit was upon holy men and women of God. Holy Spirit could be removed (as in the case of Saul). In Psalm 51, David prayed that God would not remove the Holy Spirit from him ...

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.


In 2 Kings 2, Elijah asked Elisha "What shall I do for you?" Elisha asked to receive a double portion of the Spirit that was upon Elijah:

2 Kings 2:

9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12 And Elisha saw it ...

...

15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

The sons of the prophets recognized the Spirit that had been upon Elijah was now resting upon Elisha.


I believe there is a difference between soul and spirit ... I also believe that what we have now in our day and time (ever since Day of Pentecost) is somewhat different than prior to Day of Pentecost. God doesn't take of Holy Spirit within me and put it upon others. In our day and time, we have Holy Spirit within ... when we are born again we are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13). It is an indwelling, not a settling upon as prior to Pentecost.


It is best we go to God and ask Him to reveal to us these truths. He will honor our request in His own time.

Scriptures about the Holy Spirit do not normally apply to the theological discussion of the anthropology of the nature of man as it relates to his being bipartite soul and body (or spirit and body) where the two words are interchangeble and can be used to say the same thing (the spirit of the man) or tribpartate soul, spirit and body where soul and spirit are separate parts of man.

I don't understand why you are presenting scriptures about the Holy Spirit empowering men in the Old Testament and How that the Holy Spirit empowers us under the New Covenant. What is the connection you are trying to make? If you did not read my post in it's entirety maybe you misunderstood the discussion.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I suppose the reason it matters is that teaching and writing books explaining the difference between soul and spirit can lead to an understanding that the soul can be sinful but the spirit not, which is a form of gnosticsim. It can also be a way of building with wood, hay and stubble, (ministry works that will not be rewarded) focusing on a imaginative teaching that cannot be supported by scripture and wastes time for both the teacher and the student trying to comprehend something that the scriptures never intended to teach.

what exactly is Gnosticism if you could somewhat simply explain the concept ?

 

[Scribe]

what exactly is Gnosticism if you could somewhat simply explain the concept ?

It is not easy to explain, and not all that well understood even by historians but in brief it was a heretical Greek, Jewish, mystic syncretic (mixed) religious cult teachings that crept into the church in the 2nd century. Their teachings resulted in the idea that the body was nothing and they could indulge in sexual sins and still be pure in their spirit.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Have you read Numbers 11? ... where God took of the Spirit which was upon Moses and put it upon 70 elders of the people who would then help bear the burden of the people so that Moses did not bear that burden alone?

Numbers 11:

16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.

17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

...

24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.

25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.


Please note ... this was prior to Day of Pentecost and Holy Spirit was upon holy men and women of God. Holy Spirit could be removed (as in the case of Saul). In Psalm 51, David prayed that God would not remove the Holy Spirit from him ...

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.


In 2 Kings 2, Elijah asked Elisha "What shall I do for you?" Elisha asked to receive a double portion of the Spirit that was upon Elijah:

2 Kings 2:

9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12 And Elisha saw it ...

...

15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

The sons of the prophets recognized the Spirit that had been upon Elijah was now resting upon Elisha.


I believe there is a difference between soul and spirit ... I also believe that what we have now in our day and time (ever since Day of Pentecost) is somewhat different than prior to Day of Pentecost. God doesn't take of Holy Spirit within me and put it upon others. In our day and time, we have Holy Spirit within ... when we are born again we are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13). It is an indwelling, not a settling upon as prior to Pentecost.


It is best we go to God and ask Him to reveal to us these truths. He will honor our request in His own time.

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what’s a soul ?

it’s for sure a

That is incorrect. The spirit and the soul are closely linked, yet clearly distinct from each other. They are not interchangeable.

The soul constitutes the person himself (intellect, emotions, and will, the personality) and also includes the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature). Yet while the soul (the person) is very much alive, as long as he is unregenerate the spirit is dead. This is the "natural man". Hence the absolute necessity of the New Birth.

It is only after the gift of the Holy Spirit is given, that the man is born again, and at the same time the spirit is made alive (quickened). And the Holy Spirit dwells within the spirit. It is the spirit that understands spiritual things. The natural man does not understand the things of the Spirit, and they are foolishness to him.

Now here is where the soul and spirit are shown to be distinct: For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)

And here is where man is shown to be a tripartite being: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole [1] spirit and [2] soul and [3] body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23).

Adams design sort of says God formed the man from the dust , breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and
Man became a living soul so a soul is what ? There’s only two elements which together make a soul

I’m not understanding what your saying the difference is ? How does adam
Become a soul ? The soul is intellect and spirit is what ? We all agree man has a body which appears at creation .

Seems like God breathed a spirit into
Man to make him in the image of Christ Jesus a man with the spirit of life in him making one living soul .

is a soul your saying like an attribute humans have In thier spirit ? Or it’s a third separate aspect sp
Man is “ spirit which came from God , body which was made from the earth , and the soul is what and came from where ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It is not easy to explain, and not all that well understood even by historians but in brief it was a heretical Greek, Jewish, mystic syncretic (mixed) religious cult teachings that crept into the church in the 2nd century. Their teachings resulted in the idea that the body was nothing and they could indulge in sexual sins and still be pure in their spirit.

yes I just wanted the brief version thank you . So like sort of hyper grace no
Matter what you do your saved no matter what because of the spirit ?

 

[Nehemiah6]

I’m not understanding what your saying the difference is ? How does adam Become a soul ?

A "living soul" simply means a living person, thus "eight souls were saved by water" (with reference to the Ark). God breathed the breath of life into Adam, but as we see in Scripture a living soul consists of body, soul, and spirit.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

yes I just wanted the brief version thank you . So like sort of hyper grace no
Matter what you do your saved no matter what because of the spirit ?

Scriptures about the Holy Spirit do not normally apply to the theological discussion of the anthropology of the nature of man as it relates to his being bipartite soul and body (or spirit and body) where the two words are interchangeble and can be used to say the same thing (the spirit of the man) or tribpartate soul, spirit and body where soul and spirit are separate parts of man.

I don't understand why you are presenting scriptures about the Holy Spirit empowering men in the Old Testament and How that the Holy Spirit empowers us under the New Covenant. What is the connection you are trying to make? If you did not read my post in it's entirety maybe you misunderstood the discussion.

A "living soul" simply means a living person, thus "eight souls were saved by water" (with reference to the Ark). God breathed the breath of life into Adam, but as we see in Scripture a living soul consists of body, soul, and spirit.

a soul is a person agreed. A living soul is a body and spirit together that equals 1 soul .

you know how our souls are being saved ? That sounds like a term that is describing a possession ?

a soul is saved when the new spirit is given Through belief of the gospel redeeming our inner man and that comes with the promise of the new body Renewing the outer man with in corruption.

so just exactly like creation God will provide us a glorified body only it’s spirit first now and then later the body where as at the first was the flesh first and spirit second . There’s never a new soul given because a soul is what we are it’s renewed by the spirit and body the soul is redeemed the person

 

[Pilgrimshope]

a soul is a person agreed. A living soul is a body and spirit together that equals 1 soul .

you know how our souls are being saved ? That sounds like a term that is describing a possession ?

a soul is saved when the new spirit is given Through belief of the gospel redeeming our inner man and that comes with the promise of the new body Renewing the outer man with in corruption.

so just exactly like creation God will provide us a glorified body only it’s spirit first now and then later the body where as at the first was the flesh first and spirit second . There’s never a new soul given because a soul is what we are it’s renewed by the spirit and body the soul is redeemed the person

many times though it’s interchanged with the term spirit , heart , soul strength ect like the op is saying . I think the idea of scripture like you guys are taking so litteral is making the point the whole man “ the heart and soul “

“
“ I poured all my heart and soul into that work “ that doesn’t mean those things are separate the soul is the whole individual it isn’t something we have but are . The op made a really sensible argument

I’m just not sure where there’s any teaching that man is part soul part spirit and part flesh.

but that’s only
My own thoughts I don’t think it matters for salvation of anything to understand it

 

[Nehemiah6]

However no theologian in academic circles has made an argument for Trichotomy (tripartate) nature of man for the past 100 years.

We cannot depend on theologians to always present Bible truth. That is very clear.

However since the Bible clearly speaks of spirit, soul, and body as being separate that should suffice. Otherwise you would not be able to explain how a living, breathing person has a literally dead spirit, and therefore must be born again.

The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirits -- not our souls -- that we are children of God (Rom 8:16) Which confirms that the Spirit dwells within the spirit (a separate entity). And spiritual things can only be discerned by those who have the indwelling Spirit. Which confirms that while the soul of the natural man is alive, his spirit is dead. Christians glorify God in their spirits (1 Cor 6:20; Phil 3:3), and it is the spirit which prays (1 Cor 14:14-16). The spirit and the mind (which is a part of the soul), are shown as being distinct from each other (Phil 1:27). So if that is not enough, then you will never understand this matter.

 

[Nehemiah6]

a soul is a person agreed. A living soul is a body and spirit together that equals 1 soul .

That is not what is revealed in Scripture. The Holy Spirit Himself distinguishes the soul from the spirit twice in the Bible (and I have already quoted those verses).

If there was no difference, then that would not be embedded in Scripture. True worship is with the spirit and in the spirit, since the spirit understands the things of the Spirit (Jn 4:23).

 

[notuptome]

The relationship of the soul and spirit in man is such that only God can divide the two.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Scribe]

We cannot depend on theologians to always present Bible truth. That is very clear.

However since the Bible clearly speaks of spirit, soul, and body as being separate that should suffice. Otherwise you would not be able to explain how a living, breathing person has a literally dead spirit, and therefore must be born again.

The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirits -- not our souls -- that we are children of God (Rom 8:16) Which confirms that the Spirit dwells within the spirit (a separate entity). And spiritual things can only be discerned by those who have the indwelling Spirit. Which confirms that while the soul of the natural man is alive, his spirit is dead. Christians glorify God in their spirits (1 Cor 6:20; Phil 3:3), and it is the spirit which prays (1 Cor 14:14-16). The spirit and the mind (which is a part of the soul), are shown as being distinct from each other (Phil 1:27). So if that is not enough, then you will never understand this matter.

He did not say my soul is unfruitful, he said mind. You have no authority from the text to suggest that he could have also said my soul is unfruitful. It is more reasonable in the light of the many scriptures I quoted to say that he could have said when I pray with my soul my mind is unfruitful as well as saying when I pray with my spirit my mind is unfruitful. The bible clearly uses soul and spirit interchangeably much more often than not and so in order for scripture to reconcile one must not ignore this fact.

Certainly you can see the difficulty in adopting such a dogmatic stand on saying that the "bible cleanly speaks of spirit, soul, and body as being different" when the majority of scriptures in both old and new testaments uses them interchangeably.

 

[Scribe]

A "living soul" simply means a living person, thus "eight souls were saved by water" (with reference to the Ark). God breathed the breath of life into Adam, but as we see in Scripture a living soul consists of body, soul, and spirit.

If your logic is that a soul includes the spirit, what do you say about scriptures that use the word spirit instead of soul for the same thing. Would you then say that the spirit includes the soul? I already gave some examples but there are many more. For example scriptures talking about the spirit departing. Did the soul stay behind? Most would agree that it would include the soul. So if the soul includes the spirit and the spirit includes the soul are we not then saying they are inseparable but separable? See how impossible it is to come to any definition that has authority. The overwhelming majority of scriptures would need to be ignored or not used in such an argument and only a few select ones that seem to support this logic. This is a sure indication of a bad hermeneutic.

Rachaels soul was departing
The widows son's soul came back into him (other scriptures that say the spirit departed)
There are spirits of men in heaven
there are souls of men in heaven

 

[tantalon]

That was a very good representation of what is popularly taught by many who have read these teachings from books like Watchman Nee or others that have made it very popular in churches today.

However no theologian in academic circles has made an argument for Trichotomy (tripartate) nature of man for the past 100 years.
The reason is that it cannot be supported heremeneutically. Your two verses do not teach all that you said before posting them.

As to 1 Thess 5:23 Wayne Grudem who was part of the committe that translated the ESV from the original languages (and a very well respected world renown theologian and author of books on Systematic Theology) says that the Greek supports dichotomy and is simply a repetition of saying the whole man) Now Grudem can probably explain why the Greek in 1 Thess 5:23 supports dicotomy (two parts) but I will have to find where it is explained and post it later.

The same with Heb 4:12 it is simply parallelism (a literary form often used in scriptures) and is stressing the point of the deep things in a man.

Reviewing all the scriptures where soul and spirit are used in the bible one is thorougly convinced that they are used interchangeably and then one comes to 1 Thess 5:23 it should not change ones understanding of all the scriptures that have gone before.

If you do take a dogmatic stand that man is three parts because of 1 Thess 5:23, and Heb 4:12 then the next step is to attempt to define the difference and scriptures do not support your explanations. To define the soul as the will and intellect will not be supported with other scriptures and this should make you take a step back from the dogmatic stand that this verse proves that man is three parts. If you cannot prove the difference between the soul and spirit with other scriptures you are left out on a limb without support on a dogmatic stand. Not wise.

Let's look at a number of verses that do prove that you CANNOT find a difference between soul and spirit that supports the explanation you gave.



John 12:27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

John 13:21 21When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

Do we think that Jesus soul was troubled in John 12:27 is saying something different than when it says in John 13:21 "he was troubled in spirit"? No, they are two ways of saying the same thing. How ridiculous would it be to teach that his mind, and emotions were troubled in John 12:27 and his spirit was troubled and not his mind and emotions in John 13:21

Luke 1:46-47... Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, 47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Since Mary's soul is magnifying the Lord and her spirit is rejoicing in her saviour it is obvious that they mean the same thing and not two different parts of her abilities to Magnify and Rejoice. Certainly the same "parts" of her are involved in both.f

Heb 12:23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Here are the spirits of men made perfect in heaven
Rev 6:9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And here are the SOULS of man in heaven, obviously whether spirits of men in heaven or souls of men in heaven this is speaking of the same thing and using the words interchangeably.

Gen Rachel soul departing(was that not her spirit?)
Gen 35: 18And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
Elijah raising the widows son
1 kings 17:21And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
Was that not his spirit that came back into him? And yet we see it called soul.

Jesus told the foolish man storing up in barns for his ease,
This night your soul is required of you. His soul or his spirit? Of course either word can be used because they are the same.

Psalms 31 into your hands I commit my spirit

The spirit returns to god

Fear him who is able to Destroy soul and body in hell, (no need to mention spirit since soul is the same thing)

Deliver to satan for destruction of the flesh so his spirit may be saved

2 Corinthians 7:1 - Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (do we not need to be holy in the soul? Spirit is soul)
1 Corinthians 6:20 - For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. (do I glorify Him in my soul? Of course, Spirit is soul)

“A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.” Not soul, spirit. The spirit is capable of all what those who try to explain how the soul is different, Knowing, emotions, being faithful, etc.

Pauls spirit was provoked
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
Was it his soul, emotions? Or was it his spirit, emotions? They are the same.

A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones. A crushed soul (emotions?) or a crushed spirit? In this case it is obvious that the spirit has emotions.

The spirit can also know and those things described by trichotomists as what the soul does the scriptures say the spirit does,

Mk 2 8 knowing in spirit
8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

My soul thirsts for you my flesh longs

Psalms 51:10 - Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Lift up my soul
Bless the lord my soul
And on, and on, and on...
All scriptures show them to be the same interchangeable. 2 verses 1 Thess 5:23, and Heb 4:12 do not support all the speculation and conjecture that have been built upon them to create a doctrine of three parts to a man and no scriptures support the explanations given as to the differences being soul = intellect, emotions, and will, the personality and spirit = that which relates to God. That does not even make sense, nor does most of the teachings attempting to explain the difference between soul and spirit by the tripartate view.

I never bought in to the tripartate view because of all the scriptures that obviously use the words interchangeably but I admit that 1 Thess 5:23, and Heb 4:12 made me consider it until I learned about paralellism in Hebrew and Greek literature. We see alot of that in Proverbs but it is common throughout the bible.

The SOUL is simply that part that encompasses the emotions: tenderness pity, compassion etc. and, or, their counterparts or opposites. The SPIRIT encompasses the will, heart and intellect. To put simply, the right spirit is one that makes right DECISIONS, to please God. Honorable, or otherwise emotions, are the awareness that the body uses to show the need of actions, or it's state of being, in a given situation. An example can be shown in John 3: 16: "For God so loved", showing the EMOTIONS involved, and then goes on to say, "that he gave" the ACTIONS of the will or intellect. Another example that comes to mind is Hebrews 10: 38, ...but if any man draw back, (his choice spiritually) my SOUL shall have no pleasure (FEELINGS) in him.